What is your definition of "hell"?

[quantumcarl]

What is your definition of "hell"?

I'm going with the Pope's definition that Hell is not a place where you go when you die... what happens is you create your own personal hell while your alive... then you carry it around with you in your death. Its like a lead weight on your soul... (don't ask for any definitions of soul please... I don't really have one!) But... its definitely something a person has the free will to create all to their ownsome

 

[Iacchus32]

Ruling Love

From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1244&perpage=15&pagenumber=3" ...

Originally posted by Iacchus32

Originally posted by megashawn
If god does truly care, then there is not a heaven or hell, merely afterlife. For any decent person would never inflict life long suffering upon another decent being. If god is not atleast this good, I'll have no part.

The thing of it is is that you have to separate people according to what they believe, otherwise there would be nothing but constant antagonism in the afterlife, in which case it's necessary for hell to exist if only for this reason. Whereas everyone comes into what's called their "ruling love" (that which they love most), which is what guides them and detemines their state of existence in the afterlife.

While it's for this reason that both heaven and hell are very diversified (more than you can imagine), in order to accommodate the myriad of distinctions to be made here. So in this respect everybody finds their own bliss, even for those who are in hell who, as I understand (although rather sado-masochistic in nature), wouldn't have it any other way. This is the only way you can make "everybody" happy.

From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1072" ...

"Man after death is his own love or his own will.

This has been proved to me by manifold experience. The entire heaven is divided into societies according to differences of good of love; and every spirit who is taken up into heaven and becomes an angel is taken to the society where his love is; and when he arives there he is, as it were, at home, and in the house where he was born; this the angel perceives, and is affiliated with those there that are like himself. When he goes away to another place he feels constantly a kind of resistance, and a longing to return to his like, thus to his ruling love. Thus are affiliations brought about in heaven; and in a like manner in hell, where all are affiliated in accordance with loves that are the opposite of heavenly loves." ~ http://www.swedenborg.com/" , Heaven and Hell

This is a very good book by the way, and it's highly recommended.

 

[kat]

I vote none of the above!
I'm with THOMAS B. THAYER -the Doctrine Of Endless Punishment

Snippet:

The word Hell, in the Old Testament, is always a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, which occurs sixty-four times, and is rendered "hell" thirty-two times, "grave" twenty-nine times, and "pit" three times.


1. By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead.

The following are examples: "Ye shall bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave." Gen. xvii 38. "I will go down to the grave to my son mourning." xxxviii 35. "O that thou wouldst hide me in the grave!" Job xiV 13. "My life draweth nigh to the grave." Ps. lxxxviiI 3. "In the grave who shall give thee thanks?" lxxxvi 5. "Our bones are scattered at the grave's mouth." cxlI 7. "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecc. ix. 10. "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there." Ps. cxxxix. 8. "Hell from beneath is moved to meet thee, at thy coming. It stirreth up the dead for thee," &c. Isaiah xiV 9-15.

These passages show the Hebrew usage of the word sheol, which is the original of the word "grave" and "hell" in all the examples cited. It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death. The patriarch would scarcely say, "I will go down to an endless hell to my son mourning." He did not believe his son was in any such place. Job would not very likely pray to God to hide him in a place of endless torment, in order to be delivered from his troubles.

If the reader will substitute the word "hell" in the place of "grave" in all these passages, he will be in the way of understanding the Scripture doctrine on this subject.

2. But there is also a figurative sense to the word sheol, which is frequently met with in the later Scriptures of the Old Testament. Used in this sense, it represents a state of degradation or calamity, arising from any cause, whether misfortune, sin, or the judgment of God.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1244&perpage=15&pagenumber=3" ...

The thing of it is is that you have to separate people according to what they believe, otherwise there would be nothing but constant antagonism in the afterlife, in which case it's necessary for hell to exist if only for this reason. Whereas everyone comes into what's called their "ruling love" (that which they love most), which is what guides them and detemines their state of existence in the afterlife.

While it's for this reason that both heaven and hell are very diversified (more than you can imagine), in order to accommodate the myriad of distinctions to be made here. So in this respect everybody finds their own bliss, even for those who are in hell who, as I understand (although rather sado-masochistic in nature), wouldn't have it any other way. This is the only way you can make "everybody" happy.

From the thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1072" ...

This is a very good book by the way, and it's highly recommended. [/QUOTE]

That's all very interesting. Hard to prove, mind you!

Stuart Wilde has a similar model for where we go once we're no longer a living representation of energy. It has to do with preferences... much like your "ruling love".

His idea of the next step is a dimension he calls 10D. In the 10D the "soul" with a preference for "fear" and "pain" and "suffering" goes to the section of it that offers these states. Its a whorling mass of "suffering"... blind ignorance... deceit and other things we cannot imagine. This portion of Stuart's idea of 10D has to feed on fear and suffering and so it tries to create it in the world of the living... sort of like a farmer and his produce... then harvests the results. It has been created over many millenia of human misunderstandings and the way humans tend to get used to being ignorant... all comfy in their suffering.

The other area or vibration of 10D is the target for intentions like the love of creativity, relationship, education, understanding and all the things that seem to jive with people or entities that want to learn more about the universe and beyond. This is a state of non-infringement and usually does not interfere with the living... except on the level of the most subtle influence.

However, these days... there has been cause for this portion of the 10D to take a more active role in the condition of the living... on this planet, in the least.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
That's all very interesting. Hard to prove, mind you!

If in fact heaven and hell does exist, then it only makes sense that it be done in accord with "ruling love." For then it's possible for an interaction (influx) to exist between these states and the current state of reality in the natural world, without out none becoming the wiser of it. Whereas much as everything gets "broken down" into its essential elements in nature, the same could be appliled in the spiritual sense, thus giving it a sense of being organic in makeup ... by which everything is allowed to proceed as "normal" without anyone getting too alarmed about it.

Although from time to time the two realities do get breeched, with all sorts of unpredictable results, much of which can be judged as unhealthy for the "sanity" of the respective individuals involved.

Been there and done that!

http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by kat
I vote none of the above!
I'm with THOMAS B. THAYER -the Doctrine Of Endless Punishment

Snippet:

kat. Endless punishment!?

All I can say is "I'm happy for you"!
Its nice to know what you want...
Sorry for the no-show on the
"none of the above" option.

Thanks.

 

[quantumcarl]

Here's a simple way to see the hell that the Pope and I are talking about... (good ol' popey... he should know.)

Hell is the place where you
blame the furnace for bumping
into your head.

You swear and kick at the old
octopus and it just sits there,
innocently soaking up your
anger and pain.

Hello!?

 

[Alexander]

If you ever burned yourself and ever saw a lava flow, then you know what "hell" means and exactly where it is located. Quite scary place. Impossible to survive without high tech thermoprotective gear.

 

[TENYEARS]

Never paid much attention to Billy Grahm, but he said it quite well during a speach I once listened to. He said "hell is" with a long pause "separation from god". This was not a relative placement of from here to there he was talking about, but a connection with the universe itself. When this connectedness is experinced and one gets accustomed to it and it goes for some reason, I assure you this is hell.

I once again was flipping through the channels years back to see a girl on the dating game. The host says something to the girl about falling in love and she says I hope I never fall in love because I never want to know the feeling of losing it. The game show host stood speachless and did not know what to say. Who would have know, the wisdom of babes.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Alexander
If you ever burned yourself and ever saw a lava flow, then you know what "hell" means and exactly where it is located. Quite scary place. Impossible to survive without high tech thermoprotective gear.

Yes. I've been there. But.. who's to say this inbred will to survive "at any cost" (what does a protective suit cost? and why in hell would you want to find a "scarey place" in the first place? without conditioning yourself for it)... like I was saying... who's to say survival and its many forms of prompters are not "hell" itself?

"Being" has nothing to do with "surviving"... in heaven. In heaven.. I suspect... one can observe a lava flow from any view point and gain and understanding of its power and its individual nature... without a protective suit.

Which brings me to my next poll...

"Heaven?"

 

[Alexander]

How 'bout the following definition: what is good = heaven, what is bad = hell (for someone).

Because what is good for one person (say, cold beer) does not nesessary mean good for another (who may prefer stronger substance, or stronger abstense), thus no universal heaven/hell may exist, only individual ones.

That is reasonably good definition, because it can explain wide variations in vision of hells (and heavens.)

 

[chosenone]

well there two hells as far as I'm concerned.one hell is since you are a ghost when you die,you are pure energy.so when a killer crosses over,there waiting for him.they take him to a black hole and throw him in.it takes him in and he hits the singularity.just like matter when it hit converts to energy and is absorbed inside.his immortal soul die's forever.or also since you are energy god puts up a anti energy field around the core of the planet,you repel against it in a attemp to leave,and are forced back.so you may not feel like you burning,but your trapped and all you see is red.you can see anyone or yourself.if you find someone by yelling your lucky you'll get someone to talk to.but what if god gives you near misses and you pass by someone and never knew it.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Alexander
How 'bout the following definition: what is good = heaven, what is bad = hell (for someone).

Because what is good for one person (say, cold beer) does not nesessary mean good for another (who may prefer stronger substance, or stronger abstense), thus no universal heaven/hell may exist, only individual ones.

That is reasonably good definition, because it can explain wide variations in vision of hells (and heavens.)

Yes. I see. a variation of "one man's beefsteak is an other man's poison".

In the case presented by you here I imagine one would not be aware of what state they were in... be it heaven or hell... because it would be ordained and a predetermined outcome of their actions and thoughts... in fact... an outside observer might see where they are as a kind of hell... where the one experiencing the hell might think it just ducky.

This is what Iacchus32 has postulated previously.

I'd say once one has been removed from hell, they'll see the difference... less struggle... etc...

I dare say conditioning is a part of it all. Steak is a part of the person-who-likes-steak's conditioning. They feel good to feel full of dead steer... I don't blame them.

Its like the heroin addict. Take the heroin away and they feel like their in hell... literally.

Give them some time away from heroin... or enough positive changes over time... away from heroin... and they begin to see the benefit of life without heroin.

In fact the Hell perceived during withdrawl from heroin evolves, slowly, into a Heaven.

 

[Alexander]

I just wanted to make obvious point: hell/heaven are individual likes/dislikes, nothing more. Say, when you play a trumpet, it can be heaven for you but hell for your roommate.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Alexander
I just wanted to make obvious point: hell/heaven are individual likes/dislikes, nothing more. Say, when you play a trumpet, it can be heaven for you but hell for your roommate.

Of course.

But, is that the full description of hell? "Discomfort"?

 

[Alexander]

Basicly, yes.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Alexander
Basicly, yes.

Please, try to keep your answers to a minimal amount of words, thank you!

Well, I disagree... in billions of cases discomfort has proven to be the springboard to Heaven. Once a person recognizes this, they begin to understand discomfort as a fleeting state among an infinite number of states. Discomfort offers the potential and the opportunity and the motive to change things. The most effective method of change must be determined through experience... as in

"do I melt my room mate's trumpet?... do I find another room mate?... Earplugs?... go to Harvard instead? etc..."

Here's where you'll find a good definition of hell.

From Paul Satres... the man who wrote the play "NO EXIT". Look it up sometime.

 

[Alexander]

Same with Heaven, right? ("How to increase dBells of my trumpet even more?", "It feels so good, that I should try to play much longer... and also at 4 a.m... and directly into my beloved roommate ears...").

 

[quantumcarl]

que?

Originally posted by Alexander
Same with Heaven, right? ("How to increase dBells of my trumpet even more?", "It feels so good, that I should try to play much longer... and also at 4 a.m... and directly into my beloved roommate ears...").

Que?

 

[Alexander]

Hell and heaven do not exist in Nature. They are just our PERSONAL comfort/discomfort. What is heaven for one, can be either heven or hell or anything in between for another - depending on his/her personal feelings/preferences.

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Alexander
Hell and heaven do not exist in Nature. They are just our PERSONAL comfort/discomfort. What is heaven for one, can be either heven or hell or anything in between for another - depending on his/her personal feelings/preferences.

Yes, as usual its relative... in your opinion.

Did you look up NO EXIT yet? The people in this play have no idea that they are in a hell. It may be that their preferences have landed them there. It may be that their choices have landed them there. Perhaps it is their preference, sub-consciously, to be in hell. But, how could that be? I don't know.

 

[Alexander]

No, I did not look it up. What is "no exit"? Movie?