Which Camera to Buy? Advice for Photographers

[Andre]

Got the heck of a deal too, with the 7D this morning.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Got the heck of a deal too, with the 7D this morning.

woot!

 

[Andy Resnick]

We have a sticky on buying telescopes, though, and that is a complex subject with all kinds of variables and compromises.

I didn't see that- thanks for the heads-up. If I may ask since you wrote it, how did that sticky come to be?

 

[turbo]

I didn't see that- thanks for the heads-up. If I may ask since you wrote it, how did that sticky come to be?

I generally offer the same advice for people who want to buy a telescope, and would like to get into more detail, but didn't want to type the whole spiel in every time someone asked. I typed up a long post about selecting telescopes, and the strengths and limitations of various types, and a mentor made it "sticky".

 

[turbo]

Got the heck of a deal too, with the 7D this morning.

That's good to hear, Pooh! Have fun with your new gear!

 

[Andre]

Thanks, yes I'm trying to figure out how things work. Quite a bit different from the xx0D entry level camera's. But I found a favorite function already; any RAW setting can be combined with any jpeg setting. That's awesome. As I shoot in RAW -big slow files- I so missed a jpeg tumbnail to have a quick overview of which to toss and which to keep. The xx0D only allow for raw + biggest JPEG and that's not helpful as the big jpeg usually has half the size of the RAW already.

Ah well, sounds probably like Chinese.

 

[turbo]

Thanks, yes I'm trying to figure out how things work. Quite a bit different from the xx0D entry level camera's. But I found a favorite function already; any RAW setting can be combined with any jpeg setting. That's awesome. As I shoot in RAW -big slow files- I so missed a jpeg tumbnail to have a quick overview of which to toss and which to keep. The xx0D only allow for raw + biggest JPEG and that's not helpful as the big jpeg usually has half the size of the RAW already.

Ah well, sounds probably like Chinese.

Nope! I know what you're talking about. I have stopped shooting in RAW, just for the sake of convenience because I have all kinds of applications that can deal with JPEG directly, and not RAW.

 

[Borek]

I prefer RAW. I can always convert to JPG and use any other program. RAW has no compression artifacts and is much more flexible when it comes to fine tuning white balance with DPP. I am also not sure if it is possible to save all 12 bits per channel in RGB - I think not. Besides, DPP is able to correct some lens aberrations in the pictures - but it works only with RAW (that's actually stupid if you ask me, but that's the way it is).

Andre - do you use jpg thumbnails on camera, or on computer? In my experience Irfan View shows raws fast enough to allow efficient browsing. It can't zoom in as far as raw files allow, it reads only about half the resolution, but that's absolutely enough for browsing/showing/selecting. In theory irfan view is able to show full resolution after copying some Canon dlls into plugins directory, but I have never managed to make it work.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Thanks, yes I'm trying to figure out how things work. Quite a bit different from the xx0D entry level camera's. But I found a favorite function already; any RAW setting can be combined with any jpeg setting. That's awesome. As I shoot in RAW -big slow files- I so missed a jpeg tumbnail to have a quick overview of which to toss and which to keep. The xx0D only allow for raw + biggest JPEG and that's not helpful as the big jpeg usually has half the size of the RAW already.

Ah well, sounds probably like Chinese.

I tried playing around with RAW, but I'm not at the point where it's worth my time to deal with it. OTOH, I'm getting ready to send some files to a print shop- real printing, not what I can do- maybe I'll see a difference there.

 

[Andre]

I prefer RAW. I can always convert to JPG and use any other program. RAW has no compression artifacts and is much more flexible when it comes to fine tuning white balance with DPP. I am also not sure if it is possible to save all 12 bits per channel in RGB - I think not. Besides, DPP is able to correct some lens aberrations in the pictures - but it works only with RAW (that's actually stupid if you ask me, but that's the way it is).

Andre - do you use jpg thumbnails on camera, or on computer? In my experience Irfan View shows raws fast enough to allow efficient browsing. It can't zoom in as far as raw files allow, it reads only about half the resolution, but that's absolutely enough for browsing/showing/selecting. In theory irfan view is able to show full resolution after copying some Canon dlls into plugins directory, but I have never managed to make it work.

Exactly the reasons why I shoot raw, specially with the Tokina wideangle for lenscorrections and chromatic abbaration and also for fune tuned noise control.

Problem with Canon plugs in, I have heart, is that it does not support the 64bits in my desktop. So if I want to see raw thumbnails in windows I need to do it on my 32bits laptop. But if I shoot saw 20 RAWs of one particular bug, it takes ages and gigabytes to transfer and thumbnails are too small to judge sharpness etc. So that's why I'd loved to have lean small jpegs too, quick to transfer to the computer and excellent to use for selecting the best frame and after the selection, I can transfer only the selected RAWs for postprocessing. But the xx0D series only gives the heaviest jpegs, cluttering the memory card and still take a relatively long time to process.

 

[turbo]

For those that might be wondering, DPP is Digital Photo Professional - part of a suite of software that ships with Canon DSLRs. It allows you to manage Canon's proprietary RAW format (CR2) images in native mode. You get more options and more flexibility than using Photoshop to manipulate the images as JPEGs.

 

[DaveC426913]

I didn't see that- thanks for the heads-up. If I may ask since you wrote it, how did that sticky come to be?

The key bit here is that so many people ask about telescopes so frequently, and we basically spew the same thing (I have answered several), it simply saves effort on their part and on ours to make it sticky.

There are countless topics we could gather info on and post if we chose, the problem is that too many on topics that aren't popular enough and it becomes pollution.

Also, pretty hard to have a telescope and not have it be part of an established science (that would be astronomy). Not so with photography.

So, it seems to me, the questions are:
1] How often comparatively is that question being asked?
2] Is it a core topic for a physics board?
3] How many stickies is too many?

Not that I have a specific objection to a sticky on a given topic, it's just a risk of (what's the opposite of attrition?)

 

[Borek]

If we will have a good collection of information, we can make it sticky.

Especially if Andy will take care of the information quality

 

[Andy Resnick]

If we will have a good collection of information, we can make it sticky.

Especially if Andy will take care of the information quality

Excellent! I'm on it.

Edit: If you (the semi-interested person reading this thread) can think of something you wish you knew before buying your camera, please PM it to me. I/we would like this sticky to be as useful to everyone as possible, and I'm hoping we can get a finished product out in a week or so.

 

[Borek]

Edit: If you (the semi-interested person reading this thread) can think of something you wish you knew before buying your camera, please PM it to me.

As of today the only thing that I can think off is in a way unrelated. Some Canon cameras (like 400D) use CF memory cards, as far as I can tell there are no computers with built in CF cards readers. Marzena's 1000D uses SD cards, many laptops have a slot for these, I need additional card reader connected via USB. It is not that important, as in most cases we copy pictures directly from the camera, but specialized slot is faster - when it exists.

I will give it a more thought later.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Good point- cameras may not come with a card, or the included card is too small to be useful. Some cameras have dual slots and can let you simultaneously record RAW to one and JPG to the other. I have a card reader, and on more than one occasion I've gone on my merry way, got all excited about getting the *perfect* shot, only to find out I left the card in the reader.

 

[Andre]

About card reading, I notice that putting the card directly in the computer reads much faster than connecting the camera, but Andy highlights the problem with that - "forgetting". Also, forgetting is a big one with the DSLR's I've used so far. So, you work on a tripod in studio conditions, with approriate settings, like ISO 100, and shutter in time lapse or delay. So, after being ready the camera goes off. Then a day later, you want to take a sudden snapshot - now!. Camera on - push button - beeb...beeb...beeb...beeb eight seconds to go before the click . Why oh why do the camera manufactures think that this setting should be memorized.

 

[Borek]

Then a day later, you want to take a sudden snapshot - now!. Camera on - push button - beeb...beeb...beeb...beeb eight seconds to go before the click . Why oh why do the camera manufactures think that this setting should be memorized.

Agreed, that's one of my favs I was trying to take a picture of a woodpecker yesterday, two days ago I was taking pictures of a prism and a critical angle. Exactly the combination you have described.

At least some cameras (1000D) are not limited to 10 sec, they have also 2 sec setting.

 

[Borek]

I just received Andy's document - WOW.

There will be a problem - there is a limit to the length of the post (something like 20k characters), so document will have to be split. That may help to add links to material - first post can be just a TOC with links to next posts in the thread.

More later.

 

[Borek]

In my experience Irfan View shows raws fast enough to allow efficient browsing.

Correction. Irfan View doesn't read CR2 raws shot with EOS 7D, it shows just a sad excuse of 160x120 preview. To my surprise DPP 3.6.1.0 doesn't read them either. I am starting to understand why Andre wanted to save both raw and small jpg.

 

[Andre]

Oh yes I'm very happy with that, at 8 frames per second, seeing the wave rolling towards you, you start shooting a second early only want that single shot with the action:

and before you know it your 8GB card is full. So download only the small jpgs to the computer each maybe 0.5mb, select those maybe 10 pix in total, and only download those CR2's raws, each around 20-30mb. Also try to open a folder with 500 or so CR2's with DPP, well after diner it's ready.

 

[Borek]

Correction to correction: Irfan View 4.28 with new plugins loads and displays new raw format.