Why can't this process run forever?

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In summary, a cyclic system is a process that occurs in a system that is immersed in surrounding, all inside an isolated box. The box is all by itself, and heat can flow from outside the box - so not adiabatic walls - so the box is not isolating. Each cycle, net heat flow into the system from isolated surroundings in the box and the box has an inlet which just enough heat flows to balance that consumed by the cycle. Why can't this process run forever? The place to start with this is to be more careful about describing the system under study. Be pedantic about it.
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get_physical
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A cyclic cycle occurring in a system immersed in surrounding, all inside an isolated box. Each cycle, net heat flow into the system from isolated surroundings in the box and the box has an inlet which just enough heat flows to balance that consumed by the cycle. why can't this process run forever?

attempt:

I know that Q=-W in this case. But I don't know how to explain.
 
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  • #2
The situation is incompletely described:

get_physical said:
A cyclic cycle
... is there any other kind?
What sort of cycle? What causes the cycle?

... occurring in a system immersed in surrounding,
... "in surrounding" what?

... all inside an isolated box.
The box is all by itself? Or do you mean an isolating box? i.e. a box with adiabatic walls?

Each cycle, net heat flow into the system from isolated surroundings in the box and the box has an inlet which just enough heat flows to balance that consumed by the cycle. why can't this process run forever?
Heat can flow from outside the box - so not adiabatic walls - so the box is not isolating??
How can heat energy get "consumed" by the cycle? (i.e. what does that mean?)

The place to start with this is to be more careful about describing the system under study.
Be pedantic about it.
 
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  • #3
Simon Bridge said:
The situation is incompletely described:

... is there any other kind?
What sort of cycle? What causes the cycle?

... "in surrounding" what?

The box is all by itself? Or do you mean an isolating box? i.e. a box with adiabatic walls?

Heat can flow from outside the box - so not adiabatic walls - so the box is not isolating??
How can heat energy get "consumed" by the cycle? (i.e. what does that mean?)

The place to start with this is to be more careful about describing the system under study.
Be pedantic about it.

I'm just as confused as you are. That's how the question was given to me by my teacher...
 
  • #4
Simon Bridge said:
The situation is incompletely described:

... is there any other kind?
What sort of cycle? What causes the cycle?

... "in surrounding" what?

The box is all by itself? Or do you mean an isolating box? i.e. a box with adiabatic walls?

Heat can flow from outside the box - so not adiabatic walls - so the box is not isolating??
How can heat energy get "consumed" by the cycle? (i.e. what does that mean?)

The place to start with this is to be more careful about describing the system under study.
Be pedantic about it.

The question just says "consider a cyclic change occurring in a system that is immersed in surroundings, all inside an isolated box.
 
  • #5
I think you'd better post the question verbatim - i.e. copy it out word for word.
Mind you - you won't always be given everything you need to know as part of the problem statement: some of it will be in the course notes and/or delivered in class.

But if it is really that vaguely worded, I don't think we can help you much - have you tried discussing it with your classmates? If everyone has the same problem then you can confront the teacher as a group.

Anyway there are still some things you can figure out, like:
What do you know about cyclic systems? (review course notes: have you covered heat engines?)
Consider how entropy factors into this?
 

FAQ: Why can't this process run forever?

Why is it necessary to stop a process?

Stopping a process is necessary for a variety of reasons. One of the main reasons is to prevent resource depletion. Processes often require energy or materials to continue running, and if they run indefinitely, they may use up all available resources and cause harm to the environment or to other processes. Stopping a process also allows for maintenance or improvements to be made, which can ultimately improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the process.

Can't we just keep adding resources to keep the process running?

While it may seem like adding more resources could keep a process running forever, there are limitations to this approach. Eventually, even with added resources, a process will reach a point where it can no longer function properly. This could be due to physical constraints, such as space or energy limitations, or it could be due to the diminishing returns of adding more resources. In addition, continually adding resources can be costly and unsustainable in the long run.

Is it possible to create a perpetual motion machine?

No, it is not possible to create a perpetual motion machine. This goes against the laws of thermodynamics, which state that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or transformed. Any process or machine that claims to run forever without the input of energy is a violation of these laws and is not scientifically possible.

What are the potential consequences of a process running forever?

The consequences of a process running forever can vary depending on the specific process. However, some potential consequences include resource depletion, environmental damage, and negative impacts on other processes or systems. In addition, a process that runs forever may become inefficient or obsolete over time, leading to wasted resources and negative effects on the overall functioning of a system.

Can we extend the lifespan of a process indefinitely?

While it may be possible to extend the lifespan of a process, it is not possible to do so indefinitely. As mentioned earlier, all processes have limitations and will eventually reach a point where they can no longer function properly. However, through research and innovation, it is possible to improve processes and extend their lifespan to a certain extent. This is why continuous improvement and adaptation are important in scientific and technological fields.

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