Why Do the Points from the Mean Value Theorem Depend on Both n and x?

  • MHB
  • Thread starter evinda
  • Start date
In summary, we have a function $f: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$ that is twice differentiable and has a bounded second derivative. We define $f_n(x)$ as $n$ times the difference between $f$ evaluated at $x + \frac{1}{n}$ and $f$ evaluated at $x$. We check the pointwise and uniform convergence of $f_n$ and find that it converges pointwise to $f'$ and uniformly to $f'$. We also discuss why the points $a_{n,x}$ and $b_{n,x}$, obtained from the Mean Value Theorem, depend on both $n$ and $x$.
  • #1
evinda
Gold Member
MHB
3,836
0
Hello! ;)

Let $f: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$ twice differentiable,such that $f''$ is bounded.We set $f_n(x)=n(f(x+\frac{1}{n})-f(x)), x \in \mathbb{R}$.Check the pointwise and uniform convergence of $f_n$.

$\lim_{n \to +\infty} {n(f(x+\frac{1}{n})-f(x))}=\lim_{n \to +\infty} {\frac{f(x+\frac{1}{n})-f(x)}{\frac{1}{n}}}=f'(x)$
So, $f_n \to f'$ pointwise.

$f''$ is bounded,so $\exists M>0$ such that $|f''| \leq M, \forall x \in \mathbb{R}$

From the Mean value Theorem,we have:

$$f_n(x)={\frac{f(x+\frac{1}{n})-f(x)}{\frac{1}{n}}}=f'(x+a_{n,x}), 0<a_{n,x}<\frac{1}{n}$$

Again,from the Mean value Theorem,we have:

$$\frac{f'(x+a_{n,x})-f'(x)}{a_{n,x}}=f''(x+b_{n,x}) , 0<b_{n,x}<a_{n,x}$$

Therefore, $|f_n(x)-f'(x)|=\frac{|f'(x+a_{n,x})-f'(x)|}{|a_{n,x}|} \cdot |a_{n,x}|=|f''(x+b_{n,x})| \cdot |a_{n,x}| \leq M \cdot |a_{n,x}| \leq \frac{M}{n} \to 0$

The above relation is true for each $x$,so $\sup_{x \in \mathbb{R}} {|f_n(x)-f'(x)|} \leq \frac{M}{n} \to 0$.
So, $f_n \to f'$ uniformly.But..why $a_{n,x}$ and $b_{n,x}$,that we get from the Mean Value Theorem,depend,except from $n$ also from $x$ ? :eek: :confused:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
In general, if a statement of the form
\[
\forall a\,\forall b\,\exists c\;P(a,b,c)
\]
is true, then the $c$, whose existence the statement guarantees, may depend on $a$ and $b$.

The mean value theorem says the following: For all $a,b\in\Bbb R$, if $f:[a,b]\to\Bbb R$ is a function such that bla-bla-bla, then there exists a $c\in (a,b)$ such that $f ' (c) = \frac{f(b) - f(a)}{b - a}$. Therefore, in general $c$ depends on $a$ and $b$ and, of course, on $f$.

In your case, the segment is $[x,x+1/n]$ in the first application of the MVT and $[x,a_{n,x}]$ in the second one. So, the points whose existence is guaranteed by the MVT depend on both ends of the segment.

evinda said:
But..why $a_{n,x}$ and $b_{n,x}$,that we get from the Mean Value Theorem,depend,except from $n$ also from $x$ ?
I would put it like this: "But why do $a_{n,x}$ and $b_{n,x}$, which we get from the Mean Value Theorem, depend on $x$ in addition to $n$?"
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Evgeny.Makarov said:
In general, if a statement of the form
\[
\forall a\,\forall b\,\exists c\;P(a,b,c)
\]
is true, then the $c$, whose existence the statement guarantees, may depend on $a$ and $b$.

The mean value theorem says the following: For all $a,b\in\Bbb R$, if $f:[a,b]\to\Bbb R$ is a function such that bla-bla-bla, then there exists a $c\in (a,b)$ such that $f ' (c) = \frac{f(b) - f(a)}{b - a}$. Therefore, in general $c$ depends on $a$ and $b$ and, of course, on $f$.

In your case, the segment is $[x,x+1/n]$ in the first application of the MVT and $[x,a_{n,x}]$ in the second one. So, the points whose existence is guaranteed by the MVT depend on both ends of the segment.

I would put it like this: "But why $a_{n,x}$ and $b_{n,x}$, which we get from the Mean Value Theorem, depend on $x$ in addition to $n$?"

I understand (Mmm) Thank you very much!
 

FAQ: Why Do the Points from the Mean Value Theorem Depend on Both n and x?

Why do a and b depend from x?

The dependence of a and b from x is often observed in scientific experiments and data analysis. It refers to the relationship between two variables, a and b, and a third variable, x. This means that the values of a and b change depending on the value of x. The reason for this dependence can vary and may be due to various factors such as causation, correlation, or other underlying mechanisms.

How do scientists determine the dependence of a and b from x?

Scientists use various methods and statistical analyses to determine the dependence of a and b from x. This can include correlation analysis, regression analysis, and experimental design. These methods help identify the strength and direction of the relationship between a and b and the extent to which they are dependent on x.

Can the dependence of a and b from x be manipulated?

Yes, the dependence of a and b from x can be manipulated through various means. This can include changing the value of x, altering the experimental conditions, or introducing external factors that may affect the relationship between a and b. However, it is important for scientists to carefully consider the implications of manipulating this dependence and ensure it is done ethically and with proper controls in place.

What factors can influence the dependence of a and b from x?

The dependence of a and b from x can be influenced by a variety of factors, including the nature of the variables a and b, the type of relationship between them, and the context in which the experiment or analysis is conducted. Other external factors such as environmental conditions, participant characteristics, and measurement errors can also impact the observed dependence between a and b.

How does understanding the dependence of a and b from x contribute to scientific knowledge?

The dependence of a and b from x is a fundamental aspect of scientific research and understanding it can provide valuable insights into the relationship between variables and the underlying mechanisms that drive them. This knowledge can help scientists make predictions, develop theories, and inform future research in their field. It also allows for a better understanding of complex systems and phenomena, leading to advancements in various scientific disciplines.

Similar threads

Replies
9
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
736
Replies
11
Views
991
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
21
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Back
Top