Why does my integrator pole disappear when I simplify this?

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In summary, the disappearance of an integrator pole during simplification is often due to the reduction of higher-order terms in a system's transfer function, which can lead to the loss of certain dynamics. This can happen when approximating or linearizing a model, resulting in a simplified representation that does not accurately capture all poles, especially those associated with integrative behavior.
  • #1
CoolDude420
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Homework Statement
I have a 2nd order low-pass filter (expected to be driven by a current source) that I know has an integrator pole, a LHP pole and a LHP zero.

I need to find the location of these which I am doing by trying to find the impedance of this circuit.
Relevant Equations
n/a
I have tried two attempts at this and the strange this is - depending on where and how I apply my algebraic simplification (multiplying by s/s), I get a different answer. In attempt 1, I lose the integrator s=0 pole some how but in attempt 2, it's all fine.

Attempt 1

1714300951872.png


Attempt 2
1714300980690.png


PS: I have not completed this, my question is purely regarding why does the integrator pole dissapear.

So, why does the integrator pole in attempt 1 disappear but not in attempt 2?? I am really confused!
 
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  • #2
1714309976049.png

BLUE BOX should be
[tex] R_\rho C_\rho +1/s[/tex]
which makes attempts 1 and 2 have same result.
 
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  • #3
anuttarasammyak said:
View attachment 344193
BLUE BOX should be
[tex] R_\rho C_\rho +1/s[/tex]
which makes attempts 1 and 2 have same result.
Oops. Can't believe I did that even though I reviewed my work 3 times! I was going crazy!
Thank you.
 
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  • #4
anuttarasammyak said:
View attachment 344193
BLUE BOX should be
[tex] R_\rho C_\rho +1/s[/tex]
which makes attempts 1 and 2 have same result.
A follow up question - does it matter when I equate the denominator to 0 to get the poles. For example, if I replaced the blue box with [tex] R_\rho C_\rho +1/s[/tex], there would a 1/s term at the top, yet the bottom would be unchanged. If I just left the 1/s term on top and equated the bottom to zero at this stage of the work, I would still lose my s = 0 pole.

Do I have to ensure that the entire function is in standard terms of 's' and no quotients before equating to zero?
 
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The result of attempt 2 would be written as
[tex]\frac{A}{s}+\frac{B}{s+c}[/tex]
where
[tex]c=R_\rho^{-1}(C_\rho^{-1}+C_2^{-1})[/tex]
You can get constants A and B by calculation. You find it sum of simple pole functions. You do not have to do this reduction in applying residue theorem. The result of attempt 2 is well enough to do it. But be cafeful in your formula so that numerator does not diverge at poles.
 
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FAQ: Why does my integrator pole disappear when I simplify this?

1. What is an integrator pole in control systems?

An integrator pole is a type of pole in a transfer function that corresponds to an integrative behavior in a system. It typically appears as a first-order term with a negative exponent in the denominator of the transfer function, indicating that the system output is proportional to the integral of the input over time. This characteristic is essential for systems that require steady-state error elimination.

2. Why does my integrator pole disappear during simplification?

When simplifying a transfer function, certain terms may be neglected if they have a minimal impact on the overall system behavior, particularly at specific frequency ranges. If the integrator pole is associated with a high-order term that becomes insignificant compared to other terms after simplification, it may effectively disappear from the simplified model. This often occurs when the system is approximated under certain assumptions, such as low-frequency behavior.

3. What are the consequences of losing an integrator pole in my model?

Removing an integrator pole can significantly affect the system's performance, particularly its ability to eliminate steady-state error. Without the integrator, the system may exhibit poor tracking of reference signals and may not respond adequately to disturbances. This can lead to instability or degraded performance in applications where precision is crucial.

4. How can I determine if the integrator pole is significant before simplification?

To assess the significance of an integrator pole, you can analyze the system's frequency response and poles' contributions to the overall behavior. Techniques such as Bode plots, root locus, or Nyquist plots can help visualize the impact of each pole on system stability and performance. Additionally, performing sensitivity analysis can reveal how changes in parameters affect the integrator pole's influence.

5. Are there strategies to retain the integrator pole during simplification?

To retain the integrator pole during simplification, you can use techniques like balanced truncation or Hankel norm approximation, which focus on preserving essential dynamics of the system. Additionally, carefully analyzing the system's transfer function and only simplifying terms that have minimal impact can help ensure that critical poles, like integrator poles, remain in the model. It’s also beneficial to consider the specific application requirements before proceeding with simplification.

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