Why doesn't this solution work? (Springs and Conservation of Energy)

In summary, the solution to finding the initial velocity and distance of a trampoliner can be solved using the conservation of energy equation and a kinematic equation. However, using the force method may give a slightly different answer due to the changing force of the trampoline as it is stretched. This difference can be accounted for by including the total height change in the conservation of energy equation. This is not a dumb question and comparing different methods is a good learning strategy.
  • #1
CCoffman
1
0
Homework Statement
A 67 kg trampoline artist jumps vertically upward from the top of a platform with a speed of 4.7 m/s from a height of 2.0 meters. If the trampoline behaves like a spring of spring constant ##5.8×10^4## N/m , what is the distance he depress it?
Relevant Equations
##U_i + K_i + \text{[Other initial energies] =} U_f + K_f + \text{[Other final energies], }F = kx##
I already know the solution to this, all you do is set the height of the top of the trampoline to 0 and solve for initial velocity so the equation for the conservation of energy $$mgh_0 + \frac{1}{2}mv_0^2 + \frac{1}{2}kx_0^2 = mgh_1 + \frac{1}{2}mv_1^2 + \frac{1}{2}kx_1^2$$ becomes $$\frac{1}{2}mv_0^2 = mgh_1 + \frac{1}{2}kx_1^2$$ All we do is solve for the initial velocity using a kinematic equation and then find the distance the spring/trampoline is depressed using the quadratic formula, giving us x = -.28 meters.

On my first attempt i tried to take the simpler rout of using $$F = kx$$ $$ma = kx$$ $$\frac{67*-9.8}{5.8*10^4} = -.011$$ I am wondering why this is incorrect. The acceleration should stay the same, at least the initial acceleration before the energy is transferred to the spring. I am sorry if this is a dumb question, i just started physics and... i don't understand anything :/
 
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  • #2
CCoffman said:
I am wondering why this is incorrect.
That will just give you that the spring would compress 1.1 cm when the person is standing still on the trampoline.
 
  • #3
CCoffman said:
$$\frac{1}{2}mv_0^2 = mgh_1 + \frac{1}{2}kx_1^2$$
This should be
##\frac{1}{2}mv_0^2 = mg(h_1+x_1) + \frac{1}{2}kx_1^2##
because the total height-change is ##h_1+ x_1##. But doing this makes only a small difference to the answer if ##x_1 \ll h_1##; also it means you would need to solve a more complicated quadratic equation.

CCoffman said:
The acceleration should stay the same, at least the initial acceleration before the energy is transferred to the spring.
No. Constant acceleration requires a constant force (F=ma). The acceleration is not constant while the trampoline (spring) is being stretched.

That's because the upwards force from the trampoline increases the more it is stretched (F = -kx and x is changing).

The trampoliner, while in contact with the trampoline, is comparable to a mass hanging on a spring in simple harmonic motion if you have met this before. A bit of calculus is needed for this ‘force method’.

CCoffman said:
Im sorry if this is a dumb question,
It's not a dumb question. And trying to check the consistency of two different methods to solve the same problem is an excellent learning technique.
 

FAQ: Why doesn't this solution work? (Springs and Conservation of Energy)

1. Why isn't the spring returning to its original position?

The most likely reason is that the spring has reached its elastic limit, meaning that it has been stretched or compressed beyond its ability to return to its original shape. This can happen if too much force is applied to the spring, or if it has been used for a long time and has become worn out.

2. What could be causing the energy to dissipate in the system?

There are several possible reasons for energy dissipation in a spring system. Friction between the spring and other surfaces can cause some of the energy to be lost as heat. Air resistance can also play a role, particularly if the spring is moving through the air. Additionally, the spring itself may not be perfectly elastic, meaning that some of the energy is lost as it deforms.

3. Why is the spring not reaching the expected height or distance?

If the spring is not reaching the expected height or distance, it could be due to a variety of factors. The initial force applied to the spring may not have been enough to fully compress or stretch it. There may also be external factors, such as friction or air resistance, that are affecting the motion of the spring. Additionally, if the spring is not perfectly elastic, some of the energy may be lost during the compression or stretching process.

4. Is the law of conservation of energy being violated?

In most cases, the law of conservation of energy is not being violated in a spring system. Energy may appear to be lost due to factors such as friction, but it is actually being converted into other forms, such as heat. As long as the total energy of the system remains constant, the law of conservation of energy is being upheld.

5. How can I improve the efficiency of the spring system?

To improve the efficiency of a spring system, you can minimize factors that cause energy to dissipate, such as friction and air resistance. Using a more elastic spring can also help reduce energy loss. Additionally, ensuring that the initial force applied to the spring is sufficient can help maximize the distance or height it reaches. Regular maintenance and replacement of worn out springs can also improve the efficiency of the system.

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