Why is t' not equal to t/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) in relativity of time?

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In summary, this conversation is discussing the relativity of times, where the author explains that there is a difference in the duration between two frames of reference due to the principle of relativity.
  • #1
myoho.renge.kyo
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"on the relativity of times"

tB - tA = rAB / (c - v) and t'A - tB = rAB / (c + v)

"The Principle of Relativity", p 42, by A. Einstein.

consequently,

c = [rAB / (tB - tA)] + v and c = [rAB / (t'A - tB) - v

let rAB = x' and (tB - tA) = t' so that

c = (x' / t') + v

since x' = x - v*t

c = [(x - v*t) / t'] + v so that

x = t'*(c - v) + v*t

and let rAB = x and (t'A - tB) = t so that

c = (x / t) - v so that

x = t*(c + v)

consequently,

t'*(c - v) + v*t = t*(c + v)

t'*(c - v) = t*(c + v) - v*t

t'*(c - v) = t*c

t' = t*c / (c - v)

t' = t / (1 - v / c)

t' is not t / sqrt(1 - v^2 / c^2). why? thanks! (6:00 pm thru 7:00 pm, 9/21/2006)
 
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  • #2
Unfortunately I don't have that book, and even if I had it, wouldn't it be better if you explained the problem you are considering? What are A, B, tB, tA, v, x ecc.?

Why do you call rAB = x and then, rAB = x' ? You have already written that x'=x-v*t, so they are not the same thing! How can you find a correct solution if you do it? It's impossible!

Maybe you should read better what you write!
 
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  • #3
myoho.renge.kyo said:
tB - tA = rAB / (c - v) and t'A - tB = rAB / (c + v)

"The Principle of Relativity", p 42, by A. Einstein.

consequently,

c = [rAB / (tB - tA)] + v and c = [rAB / (t'A - tB) - v

let rAB = x' and (tB - tA) = t' so that

c = (x' / t') + v

since x' = x - v*t

c = [(x - v*t) / t'] + v so that

x = t'*(c - v) + v*t

and let rAB = x and (t'A - tB) = t so that

c = (x / t) - v so that

x = t*(c + v)

consequently,

t'*(c - v) + v*t = t*(c + v)

t'*(c - v) = t*(c + v) - v*t

t'*(c - v) = t*c

t' = t*c / (c - v)

t' = t / (1 - v / c)

t' is not t / sqrt(1 - v^2 / c^2). why? thanks! (6:00 pm thru 7:00 pm, 9/21/2006)
a look at Leo Karlov "Paul Kard and Lorentz free special relativity" Phyhs.Educ. 24 165 1989" and at Asher Peres "Relativistic telemetry" Am.J.Phys. 55 516 1987 could be illuminating.

the best things a physicist can offer to another one are information and criticism
 
  • #4
myoho.renge.kyo said:
tB - tA = rAB / (c - v) and t'A - tB = rAB / (c + v)​

"The Principle of Relativity", p 42, by A. Einstein. consequently,

c = [rAB / (tB - tA)] + v and c = [rAB / (t'A - tB) - v​

let rAB = x' and (tB - tA) = t' so that c = (x' / t') + v, and
let rAB = x and (t'A - tB) = t so that c = (x / t) - v, so that x = t*(c + v)

Generally, when we say x,t and x',t', we imagine 2 sets of spacetime variables, one set for each of 2 observing perspectives, say frame k & frame K.

Your derivation leadin (above here) defines x',t' for the outbound segment of the ray, and x,t for the reflection segment of the same ray. However, it's all from a single observer vantage. Hence there is nothing in your derivation which relates one frame to the other.

So, when you obtained this ...

myoho.renge.kyo said:
consequently, ... t' = t / (1 - v / c)

You are not relating one frame wrt the other. You are instead relating the outbound duration to the return leg duration per a single frame vantage.

The equation in your question ...

myoho.renge.kyo said:
t' is not t / sqrt(1 - v^2 / c^2). why?​

is the Fitgerald Contraction, which requires the comparison of 2 frame perspectives against the backdrop of light.
 
  • #5
thank you so much. i really appreciate your help. i am having so much dificulty with this. i think i need to understand multivariable calculus and differential equations in order to at least understand p. 44 in The Principle of Relativity. but i would like to understand what you mean.

for example, how can i relate one frame of reference, say K (the stationary system) with K' the moving system using the following:

tB - tA = rAB / (c - v) and t'A - tB = rAB / (c + v)

A. Einstein on p. 42 in The Principle of Relativity, states, "observers moving with [K'] would thus find that [tB - tA is not equal to t'A - tB], while obsevers in [K] would declare that [tB - tA = t'A - tB]." thanks again. in the mean time i am going to read Fitzgerald Contraction.
 
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  • #6
myoho.renge.kyo said:
how can i relate one frame of reference, say K (the stationary system) with K' the moving system using the following:

tB - tA = rAB / (c - v) and t'A - tB = rAB / (c + v)

A. Einstein on p. 42 in The Principle of Relativity, states, "observers moving with [K'] would thus find that [tB - tA is not equal to t'A - tB], while obsevers in [K] would declare that [tB - tA = t'A - tB]." thanks again. in the mean time i am going to read Fitzgerald Contraction.

You'd need to relate these ...

outbound path ...

tB-tA = rAB/(c-v) proportional_to TB-TA = rAB/c​

return path ...

t'A-tB = rAB/(c+v) proportional_to T'A-TB = rAB/c​

The proportionality for both legs are identical, and assumed linear.

One observer records t & r, while the other observer records T & r.

Note that ...

One should not assume going in that r=r.

TB-TA = TA'-TB, but tB-tA <> t'A-tB.​

Einstein recognized that all inertial observers experience equal times for the outbound & return light path lengths, given the emitter & refector are at rest with that observer. So the linear constant of proportionality which relates the frames must relate a reflection point which is not at the center of your observed round trip interval, to the center of his round trip interval ... since the emitter & reflector are at rest with him and not you. You see them in motion!

pess5
 

FAQ: Why is t' not equal to t/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) in relativity of time?

What is the theory of relativity?

The theory of relativity, proposed by Albert Einstein, is a fundamental concept in physics that describes how time and space are relative to the observer's frame of reference. It explains the relationship between space and time, and how gravity affects the fabric of space-time.

What is the difference between special and general relativity?

Special relativity deals with the laws of physics in non-accelerated frames of reference, while general relativity includes the effects of gravity and acceleration in its equations. Both theories are essential for understanding the universe at large scales.

How does relativity affect our daily lives?

Although the effects of relativity are not noticeable in our daily lives, they have significant implications in fields such as GPS navigation, satellite communications, and nuclear energy. The precise timing and measurement required for these technologies must take into account the effects of relativity.

Can the theory of relativity be proven?

The theory of relativity has been extensively tested and proven through numerous experiments and observations. These include the famous Eddington expedition in 1919 and the recent detection of gravitational waves. The predictions of relativity have been confirmed with remarkable accuracy, making it one of the most well-supported theories in physics.

What are the implications of relativity on our understanding of the universe?

The theory of relativity has revolutionized our understanding of the universe, providing a new framework for understanding gravity and the behavior of matter and energy at a large scale. It has also led to the development of other theories, such as the Big Bang theory and the concept of black holes. Relativity continues to shape our understanding of the universe and plays a crucial role in modern physics.

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