Will poor grades later in my degree affect my chances of doing a PhD?

[heyypenguin]

First I'll provide some background. I'm studying Physics at a top-ranked university in the UK, doing a 4-year integrated Master's. My grades in the first two years were relatively strong, getting a first in both years. My third year however I dealt with a lot of personal issues which were then compounded by the loss of a friend over the Easter break. My anxiety was through the roof and unsurprisingly I performed worse on this year's exams. For this year I averaged a 67 overall with one particularly poor paper of 49.

I've seen a lot of threads asking about poor grades, but all of them had poor grades at the start of their degree which improved later on. The responses to this were that professors are usually fine as you're showing an upward trend. I'm really concerned that to a potential advisor my grades will look like they're on the decline and that will make me a much worse potential candidate. How willing do you think professors will be to overlook a bad exam season, when it's the most recent one I have to show for? If I end my degree with a 2:1 that's trended downwards will grad schools consider taking me? I have three research internships under my belt which I hope can demonstrate some potential, but I just don't know how big a deal breaker degree results are.

Thank you very much for any advice, from a worried student who just really wants to do research!

 

[MidgetDwarf]

I know nothing of the UK system [American].

But I myself began suffering from severe anxiety, and I know first hand how difficult it may be. My symptons are physical.

Make sure you speak to a medical provider as soon as possible to get it under control.

Things that helped me were eating a bit better. No caffeine [ I would drink a construction worker size large thermose of coffee + 2 grande size cups a day]. No alchohol.

And exercise. A simple walk will do, but if you have no other preexisting health conditions, maybe pick up jogging.

Again speak to a doctor if exercise schedule is appropriate.

 

[gwnorth]

I'm very sorry for your struggles.

Your grades situation is not ideal but there's nothing you can do about it now. If you're doing a 3+1 though there's still time to pull up your grades. You may also have an opportunity to address your grades in your personal statement. Having strong research experiences and letters of recommendation will go a long way to mitigating your grades. If you're wanting to apply to the US writing the GRE/PGRE may also be helpful.

In the end while a 2:1 may preclude you from applying to the most selective programs, there are still plenty for which you are likely to be a competitive applicant.

 

[gleem]

In the end while a 2:1 may preclude you from applying to the most selective programs,

Could you please explain the meaning of the above statement? How do you read 2:1? Does it have a counterpart in the US?

 

[Vanadium 50]

2:1 means upper (the 1) 2nd class (the 2) honors...er...honours.
You want a "1", 1st class, to be highly competitive.

A direct conversion is difficult, as there is differential grade inflation.

 

[WWGD]

I know nothing of the UK system [American].

But I myself began suffering from severe anxiety, and I know first hand how difficult it may be. My symptons are physical.

Make sure you speak to a medical provider as soon as possible to get it under control.

Things that helped me were eating a bit better. No caffeine [ I would drink a construction worker size large thermose of coffee + 2 grande size cups a day]. No alchohol.

And exercise. A simple walk will do, but if you have no other preexisting health conditions, maybe pick up jogging.

Again speak to a doctor if exercise schedule is appropriate.

And 15 minutes daily of just closing the eyes and breathing deeply. Convenient when laying down right before going to sleep. Edit: Consider giving a high priority to getting enough sleep too. I did and it has definitely paid back several fold per extra hour slept.

 

[gwnorth]

Could you please explain the meaning of the above statement? How do you read 2:1? Does it have a counterpart in the US?

Every program could conceivably have their own conversion scale but for a generic one you can Google it. When I did, the first one that came up was

UK Degree Classification	Comparable English Terms	Equivalent Percentage Range	Approximate GPA (US)
First Class (1st)	Outstanding/Excellent	70-100%	3.7-4.0
Upper Second Class (2:1)	Very Good	60-69%	3.3-3.6
Lower Second Class (2:2)	Good	50-59%	2.7-3.2
Third Class	Satisfactory	40-49%	2.0-2.6
Pass (Postgraduate)	Pass	50-59%	2.0-2.6

https://gpacalculator.net/grade-conversion/united-kingdom/

On the other hand Scholaro lists a 2:1 as a 3.7.

https://www.scholaro.com/gpa-calculator/

So it's all going to depend on what scale the specific program uses or whether they request a formal credential evaluation from a company like WES.

 

[Vanadium 50]

So it's all going to depend on what scale the specific program uses

It's not like UK programs do a double conversion. They don't say "Well, a 2:1 might be as high as a 3.5, and a 3.5 might be a First at some places, so maybe a 2:1 is a First".

To answer the OPs questions - are good grades better than bad grades? Yes. Therefore, bad grades are worse than good grades. Is an upward trend better than a downward trend? Yes. Therefore a downward trend is worse than an upward trend.

Does this close all the doors? Only way to tell is to apply.

 

[gwnorth]

@Vanadium 50 the conversion is for applying to US programs. If the OP applies to UK programs then a 2:1 is a 2:1.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Exactly.

 

[f95toli]

This is impossible to answer, The OP needs to specify if they intend to apply for a PhD in the UK or the USA. The rules are very different.
Also, if it is the former if they want to do it as part of a Centre for Doctoral Training or apply directly to a PhD.
In the UK, grades to not necessarily matter that much as long as you meet the minimum requirements for the university in question (which differ). Doing a really good final year MSc project and getting getting recommended by the MSc project supervisor can be much more important than grades if you applying directly to a PhD project (CDTs are somewhat different, but even then there can be some flexibility).

 

[CrysPhys]

Doing a really good final year MSc project and getting getting recommended by the MSc project supervisor can be much more important than grades if you applying directly to a PhD project (CDTs are somewhat different, but even then there can be some flexibility).

Hi. I'm only familiar with the US system. But I'm curious as to the academic schedule and application due dates in the UK. For the MSc supervisor to gauge that the final year project was really good and write a strong letter of recommendation would require the supervisor to do the evaluation towards the end of the final year. When are applications for PhD programs due, and when do PhD programs start, relative to the end of the final MSc year? Thanks.

 

[gwnorth]

The UK integrated 4 year (3+1) master's degree, aka MSci, is a continuation from bachelor level studies and is considered an undergraduate degree. The 4th year can be viewed as being somewhat akin to a post-graduate diploma (PGDip). It's categorized as a taught (i.e. course based) degree rather than a research degree though it often provides an opportunity to undertake an independent research project somewhat akin to what North American students may complete as a final year thesis resulting in an "honours" degree designation. It's not really equivalent to a standalone 2 year post-graduate thesis-based research MS/MSc master's degree and while sufficient for admission to standalone PhDs in the UK and integrated MSc/PhD programs, it may not be sufficient for admission to standalone PhDs outside of the UK. One of the most well known of these types of degrees is Cambridge's Part III/Mathematical Tripos.

Being an undergraduate degree it follows the undergraduate academic calendar with the year being 9 months in duration running from October to end of June. Application due dates for PhD programs are variable in the UK and can range from January to as late as May depending on the university and the specific program. As with undergrad, most UK PhD programs also begin in October though there can be some variability. In terms of application timing it's probably not too much different than that for North American students applying to master's or PhD programs during their final year of their undergrad or master's.

 

[f95toli]

Hi. I'm only familiar with the US system. But I'm curious as to the academic schedule and application due dates in the UK. For the MSc supervisor to gauge that the final year project was really good and write a strong letter of recommendation would require the supervisor to do the evaluation towards the end of the final year. When are applications for PhD programs due, and when do PhD programs start, relative to the end of the final MSc year? Thanks.

it depends. The centres for doctoral training (CDT) are similar to the US grad schools in that that there is a schedule, application deadlines etc.
However, there is also the "old" style PhD which is still very common (most universities do not have CDTs). In this case the PI/supervisor simply advertises for a PhD student when there is a suitable project and the funding is available. In this case the student isn't a part of a "programme" as such; meaning there are no fixed dates for anything.
Websites such as findaphd.com is a good place to look for PhD positions. They are typically also advertised on the university/research group webpage.

 

[Vanadium 50]

there are no fixed dates for anything.

But there are external factors. STFC has softened somewhat, but it used to be students had three years to finish. You were going out the door then, one way or the other.

 

[f95toli]

But there are external factors. STFC has softened somewhat, but it used to be students had three years to finish. You were going out the door then, one way or the other.

Most students have 3.5 years (but it varies, CDTs ars often 4 years).
But yes, it is much, much harder than before to get an extension since the university only gets fully paid once the student have finished; and getting an extension of the scholarship (=more money) is virtually impossible.