Will the wrench move clockwise?

[jeff einstein]

TL;DR Summary

So on this diagram there is a wrench and a machine on it that pulls on the wrench will the wrench turn clockwise

Hey There,
I was just thinking up some ideas for machines that are independent of the ground to use in my work shop. I came across an idea but still haven’t made the machine, the machine is placed on the shaft of the wrench. I would like to know if this machine can successfully turn the wrench clockwise. Ignore the weight of the machine or the friction between nut and the screw. Please check the image for referance. Note that I know the perpendicular distance of force from pivot to force applied isnt correct but just for the sake of simplicity I have assumed this. The forces applied might be exaggerated but just deal with it.

 

[256bits]

Hi @jeff einstein
What does this mean

TL;DR Summary: So on this diagram there is a wrench and a machine on it that pulls on the wrench will the wrench turn clockwise

machines that are independent of the ground

 

[jeff einstein]

as in without contact to the ground like for example a lever (a simple machine) is intact with the ground and excerts a force on it. this machine i am talking about only exerts a force on the wrench

 

[Baluncore]

The machine is irrelevant.
The force is applied indirectly to the wrench, without a change to the force.

 

[jeff einstein]

yes but the forces are applied at different places and so i say there must be a higher moment of pull compared to the downward force

 

[A.T.]

this machine i am talking about only exerts a force on the wrench

If your weightless machine only interacts with the wrench, then it cannot exert a permanent static torque on the wrench. It would have to be something dynamic, like a rocket or a flywheel that builds up angular momentum in the opposite direction.

 

[Filip Larsen]

For the wrench to provide a torque on the bolt the vector sum of all the forces (i.e. sum of force "arrows") on the wrench must have a magnitude greater than zero and a direction that is not parallel with the wrench arm. Usually torques are most easily obtained by providing a net force approximately perpendicular to the arm. Note that whatever (human or machine) that provides a force on the handle must itself get the "opposite" force (i.e. action equals reaction) from somewhere else. For a human body weight can be used when the wrench in near horizontal in addition with good friction with the floor for near vertical, but for a "light" machine attached to the handle it must push against something else which becomes "tricky" once the wrench rotates.

 

[jeff einstein]

but the moment of the forces are different

 

[Filip Larsen]

but the moment of the forces are different

Somehow I missed that you want to apply a force couple, sorry. A couple can produce a moment, yes, but then your "machine" must have an almost opposite moment elsewhere if it is to remain stationary wrt. the wrench.

Perhaps you can clarify what your specific question is?

 

[Baluncore]

We also need a better diagram of the "machine" that is built onto the handle of the wrench, that shows the point where the 50 N force is first applied.

 

[jeff einstein]

Somehow I missed that you want to apply a force couple, sorry. A couple can produce a moment, yes, but then your "machine" must have an almost opposite moment elsewhere if it is to remain stationary wrt. the wrench.

Perhaps you can clarify what your specific question is?

i want to know if the machine will cause the wrench to turn clockwise not to remain stationary

 

[jeff einstein]

We also need a better diagram of the "machine" that is built onto the handle of the wrench, that shows the point where the 50 N force is first applied.

i know the diagram is inaccurate i only want to know if any "machine" like such would work.

 

[Filip Larsen]

i want to know if the machine will cause the wrench to turn clockwise not to remain stationary

Possibly yes, if you somehow can apply a force couple to the wrench arm and keep the couple fairly perpendicular as the wrench turn. But I am puzzled if you can apply a force couple why not just apply the single force at the longest arm? I assume you are aware any "machine" you attach to the wrench still has to cope with the reactions somehow (to keep it from moving and/or spinning freely).

 

[jeff einstein]

i agree what i am trying to say is that even if invert the machine the wrench will still move but in the opposite. this is because the reaction force and the force applied is the same but one force is farther way from the pivot compared to the other. that is my theory

 

[Lnewqban]

i want to know if the machine will cause the wrench to turn clockwise not to remain stationary

You could try using the principle due to which the helicopters need to have a tail rotor, combined with the principle based on which an impact wrench works.
To achieve the above, your machine will need to have a rotating mass (in the same plane of the wrench) and some basic mechanism.
Note that the rotating energy could only be increased because the machine is connected to ground via the wrench and the nut, which can only be rotated in one direction.

 

[Baluncore]

i know the diagram is inaccurate i only want to know if any "machine" like such would work.

No. It will not work. The "machine" is an integral part of the wrench handle, it has nothing to work against besides that handle.

Exactly why it will not reverse, cannot be explained without some idea of how the "machine" is arranged. That you refuse to do, so we cannot produce the FBD that you should have presented.