Your opinion about Mr.Zapatero

[Mercator]

I don't have nothing against Zapatero; in fact I prefer him to Aznar. But he should learn some english. He was in a quite ridicule position in a public act a pair of days ago when he showed his lack of ability in this language

Maybe send him to a crash course together with Bush?

 

[Smurf]

Mercator seems not able to distinguish between communism and socialism so I’ll help. If there is a difference, it would the element of globalization (no nation states, the communist ideal) and various degrees of national independence as might be expressed by the German Social Democratic Party. The EU is an example of globalization, as the member states must cede sovereignty to qualify. Human rights are not guaranteed under the EU constitution, allowing that determination to be made by the individual member nations. Sounds good until one realizes the Word Court can prosecute individuals subject only to its laws. What makes the UN so very dangerous is it’s obvious commitment to the globalization process (communism) and the necessary need to defeat capitalism at all costs. Capitalism is the ONLY mechanism thus far known to create wealth, however inequitably that wealth is distributed. Socialism, aka communism, has served only to impede the wealth generation of the nations so governed, thereby lowering the living standards of the citizen. The social programs so cherished by the populace can no longer be supported by the poor economic performance of their nations. It’s amusing that the EU is discussing the imposition of an import tariff based on the exporting country's tax rate. The lower the tax rate, the higher the tariff. Obviously the EU is aware that socialism/communism cannot compete with the wealth generation of free nations.

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

and

If I had to explain the difference between Socialism and Communism to an American, for simplicity's sake I would compare a socialist to what Americans call a "liberal". Communists, though superficially they start from a different theory, are in practice like the Neocons. They too want world domination with a small elite on the top and are ruthless in pursuing their goals. In this respect the Chinese party is a model for the Neocons who wished they had the same unlimited power over "the people" and like in China can decide what's good for them and what not. People like Zapatero stand for exactly the opposite.

This is utter nonsense.
Communism and socialism, free market, capitalism, globilization!? do these ideas mean nothing to you? the way you rant about them makes me think you have no respect for these theories at all. Communism does in no way, lead to or require world domination. Socialism is not the opposite of a free market. There are many ways of applying all these ideas, They are not evil. They are not corrupt. They are not doomed to fail due to the nature of human beings. They are political and economic theories with many forms.

 

[Mercator]

and

This is utter nonsense.
Communism and socialism, free market, capitalism, globilization!? do these ideas mean nothing to you? the way you rant about them makes me think you have no respect for these theories at all. Communism does in no way, lead to or require world domination. Socialism is not the opposite of a free market. There are many ways of applying all these ideas, They are not evil. They are not corrupt. They are not doomed to fail due to the nature of human beings. They are political and economic theories with many forms.

Sorry Smurf, never heard about the socialist and communist "internationale" ? Socialist ideas have indeed been introduced in many ways and forms in Europe, to the chagrin of people like G, not without success in countries like Sweden, the Netherlands and so on. But you are wrong about communism. It IS the goal of communism to dominate the whole world. Communism IS by definition totalitarian (dictatorship of proletariat) the communist internationale(s) all state that real communism can only be achieved in a completely communist world and cannot exist in a vacuum (it is the excuse amongst communists for the failure of communist regimes: the work is not finished yet) What I wanted to show is that extremists left and right are always closer than they want to admit, as history has shown us with Nazism (nazional Zocialism) and Fascism (by Socialist Mussolini).

But we were talking Zapatero here. Is a change from 11.1 to 11.0 an increase according to you? Am I the only one here who can read the figures in a statistic?

 

[Smurf]

Yeah, Communism isn't finished yet, and that's why it may require totaltarianism now, but I don't believe it is fixed. And 11.1 to 11.0 isn't an increase, however its hardly a decrease either, how long has Zapatero been in office? think we can expect it to fall more as time goes on?

 

[Mercator]

Yeah, Communism isn't finished yet, and that's why it may require totaltarianism now, but I don't believe it is fixed. And 11.1 to 11.0 isn't an increase, however its hardly a decrease either, how long has Zapatero been in office? think we can expect it to fall more as time goes on?

According to G-logic it will increase significantly as the figures go down.
The intellectulay dishonest proposition here was that Zapatero somehow increased the figures after he took over from Aznar. It may be that in the future unemployment may grow again in Spain, who knows, but when discussing, one better stays in tune with the facts.

 

[Clausius2]

Here are the figures.

Who was in charge in July 2003? Aznar. When did Zapatero take office?

July 2003 Jan 2004 Feb 2004 Mar 2004 Apr 2004 May 2004 June 2004 July 2004
Euro-zone 8.9 8.9 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.0 9.0

ES 11.3 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.1 11.0 11.0 11.0

Nothing more to add I suppose.

It's all right. But this not mean it's the highest of Europe. I will search for the ones of Germany and France. You are comparing with the mean of euro zone.

At the end of Aznar's period, the unemployment increased a bit, but he made possible a reduction of 1.000.000 of employees. No criticizing about such small increasing is worth of mention. It's like you have defeated Goliath and somebody critices you for not killing a fly.

About Zapatero's. knowledge about english language, it's so sad to see him talking only about weather. But some people defines spaniard as the guy that is always trying to learn english all his life.

By contrast what you said about the slight decreasing of unemployment during the first times of Zapatero's period is true. But there are two points:
-The figures are not significative of any success
-The summer was inmmediately next. So that, the employment increases every year in that time, due to holidays and recreation businesses.

Also, the minister of enconomics has announced an increasing of the total economic deficit of the nation (1.8%) and the new-built houses and flats have increased their price a 17% last year. That is the highest increasing of all Europe.

 

[Clausius2]

Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table.

There's nothing to be ashamed of. Many of the core EU countries use make-work projects and lots of holidays and partial time work to disguise the reality. It's really hard for a government to really fix unemployment, and the EU compact greatly restricts the one tool they have, deficit spending.

 

[Mercator]

Mercator, you are correct.

Here is a link that proves your statement:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm

I'm shamed of my country to be one of the worst in that table.

Dont worry, Belgium is not much better. Clausius, I did not want to argue with you. My post was only aimed at the poster who made it look like Zapatero suddenly caused an increase in unemployment, which is not true. Maybe he will later, and I am sure to applaud Aznar for what he has done, but that does not give anyone the right to ignore the facts. But what else can you expect from soemeone who'se convinced socialists and communists are the same? Let's see what Zapatero does after a year or so. One thing I am supporting for sure is that he has actively supports women in his cabinet and in society. For anyone that knows a little bit about Spanish society that is good news.

 

[Mercator]

Finaly a man who wants to talk and involve the muslims themselves in solving terrorism. http://www.dubaiinteract.com/Media_SectionDisplay.aspx?Sectionid=88DC0EFB-ACD2-48CD-86D3-4B1D2CC0F9B3&Articleid=0231EB80-A7D7-44CF-9BD9-A33F8487EF5B&DisplayObjectMode=Article&DisplayMode=Detail&ObjectId=c9e4b29f-51a0-4a8d-addd-6f4dcc4922dd

 

[Clausius2]

One thing I am supporting for sure is that he has actively supports women in his cabinet and in society.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Finaly a man who wants to talk and involve the muslims themselves in solving terrorism.

You're wrong this time, my friend. The support of women has ridiculized the woman itself. He has put in his cabinet a lot of inoperative women, only for giving a good impression to people like you. This women put by him are not representative of business, scientist or intelligent women. They are indeed stupid. I'm with you in the depth of your argument, but these are not the manners to support women.

About muslims, an excess of politeness can activate them to be impolite against us, by the way this is what is happening here. Everybody is threatened here by them, and nobody can argue in a supermarket or in the street with a muslim. He will be the poor man and you the punisher, whatever the reason was. This is not the blame of muslims, but our proper blame for being too stupid and not loving our proper nationality.

 

[Mercator]

You're wrong this time, my friend. The support of women has ridiculized the woman itself. He has put in his cabinet a lot of inoperative women, only for giving a good impression to people like you. This women put by him are not representative of business, scientist or intelligent women. They are indeed stupid. I'm with you in the depth of your argument, but these are not the manners to support women.

About muslims, an excess of politeness can activate them to be impolite against us, by the way this is what is happening here. Everybody is threatened here by them, and nobody can argue in a supermarket or in the street with a muslim. He will be the poor man and you the punisher, whatever the reason was. This is not the blame of muslims, but our proper blame for being too stupid and not loving our proper nationality.

So, 1) you're a typical Spanish macho?
2) you think that a dialogue with Muslim countries in order to get their support in the fight against terrorism is "an excess of politeness"? Better don't discuss anything and send in the army right away huh?
Man, Zapatero IS badly needed with people like you.

 

[Clausius2]

So, 1) you're a typical Spanish macho?
2) you think that a dialogue with Muslim countries in order to get their support in the fight against terrorism is "an excess of politeness"? Better don't discuss anything and send in the army right away huh?
Man, Zapatero IS badly needed with people like you.

I think:
1) you don't have any idea of what means Spanish macho.
2) I'm not a Spanish macho if you are saying that in an offensive way.
3) I agree with you about the women and their problems in our society.
4) I do not agree with Zapatero and his solution of putting the worst women in his cabinet.
5) You are not telling all the truth, because a lot of terrorist groups are supported and financed by that muslim goverments you mentioned.
6) I do not need a guy with makes a good impression to people like you who only watch their manners and politeness. I watch their technical capabilty to govern a country, and Aznar was like a scienctist in his laboratory while Zapatero is only visiting it, smiling a lot but doing nothing that a president has to do. The external appearance is not all in what you have to look into..

 

[Mercator]

GENIERE: still care to come back on this, or do you still prefer to keep silent if it is clearly proven you were abusing the figures? "Business/Economy

Unemployment rate hits three year low
Tuesday, October 26, 2004

By: ThinkSpain


Unemployment fell by 61,300 in the third quarter of this year and now stands at 10.54%, the lowest rate since the fourth quarter of 2001. The latest figures from the national statistics office show a fall from 10.93% in the second quarter and 11.38% in the first. During the third quarter, a total of 190,400 jobs were created, while the working population grew by 129,100 people. Over the last 12 months, unemployment has fallen by 83,300, and the total number of new jobs created has been 422,600. There are now a total of 2,031,000 unemployed people in Spain."
http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/7218

 

[Dayle Record]

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

Capitalism has a goal to keep their worker ants, in a culvert somewhere near Baker California, where they will be hosed off before work, and expected to find their way home again following trails of breadcrumbs...

Why doesn't anyone get Wasteofo's great humor, and cynicism, why so obtuse? I know, now that it is known that he is a student, the older males in the heirarchy can pretend to not notice him, and make obtuse comments, while munching termites off their little termite twigs.

 

[Clausius2]

Communism and socialism have an identical goal, reducing humanity to worker ants in a “utopian” nest.

Why doesn't anyone get Wasteofo's great humor, and cynicism, why so obtuse? I know, now that it is known that he is a student, the older males in the heirarchy can pretend to not notice him, and make obtuse comments, while munching termites off their little termite twigs.

1) I'm also a student, not an older male.

2) Yes, I understand the humor and sincerity of Wasteofo.

3) I didn't make any obtuse comment.

4) I did notice him, and answered him.

 

[Clausius2]

Unemployment fell by 61,300 in the third quarter of this year and now stands at 10.54%, the lowest rate since the fourth quarter of 2001. The latest figures from the national statistics office show a fall from 10.93% in the second quarter and 11.38% in the first. During the third quarter, a total of 190,400 jobs were created, while the working population grew by 129,100 people. Over the last 12 months, unemployment has fallen by 83,300, and the total number of new jobs created has been 422,600. There are now a total of 2,031,000 unemployed people in Spain."
http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/7218

You can say all what you want. If the unemployment has decreased, yes maybe you and your data are right. But do not think it has been by means of the economic estrategy of Zapatero. He hasn't got any economic plans except to get spain into a bankrupt spending money in stupid affairs, all directed to minories and independentists. He doesn't love Spain, he doesn't want an united Spain, moreover he is nearer now comunism than centered positions. Some time has passed from my last conversation here, and I have realized of the complete inutility of our prime minister and his cabinet.

God bless spanish people, because we'll need divine help in order to not to fall into despair and bankrupt due to our stupid prime minister.

 

[Mercator]

Clausius, you have right to your opinion. But figures are what they are and if someone wants to abuse the truth for their own agenda, we reveal it. And the person in question hides.

 

[fourier jr]

To those who don't know who is Mr. Zapatero, he is the Prime Minister of Spain. He won the 14th March presidential elections, beating Mr. Jose María Aznar. Please, say what you want about the Spanish government and our prime minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. You can comment what you want about the nowadays changes in our new relationship with the U.S.A., and our new friendly position with France and Germany.

I'm anxious for knowing your opinions.

...haven't read many of the other replies, but I wish we had a PM in Canada like Zapatero... or Chavez (of Venezuela) or Lula (Brazil) or Castro, Nestor (Argentina), etc etc. I want us to have a new relationship with Germany & France, etc...

The current scum in Ottawa has been selling us out relentlessly to the US since WWII for sure, maybe earlier, like ~1915. (Trudeau was on the right track, but didn't go nearly far enough with what he did)

 

[Clausius2]

...haven't read many of the other replies, but I wish we had a PM in Canada like Zapatero... or Chavez (of Venezuela) or Lula (Brazil) or Castro, Nestor (Argentina), etc etc. I want us to have a new relationship with Germany & France, etc...

I'm newly so shamed to view my country in that horrble group you mentioned. Notwithstanding my prime minister is the most stupid one that we had have, Spain has nothing to do with Venezuela, Cuba, Argentina and Brazil. Don't compare us and our society with those sub-pre-historical guys because I'll get angry.

 

[Mercator]

Clausius, can you give us a few facts? So far I only see that he reversed some reactionary policies of his predecessor, the economy does well, unemployment goes down, a majority of Spaniards support him. Yet you seem to hate him. Perhaps you support the following, and that would explain everything: " (About Aznar) A devout Catholic, the Popular Party leader took a tough stance against gay marriage and abortion. His conservative government passed a law making Catholic classes mandatory in public schools and fought to include the mention of Christianity in the European Constitution"

 

[Clausius2]

Clausius, can you give us a few facts? So far I only see that he reversed some reactionary policies of his predecessor, the economy does well, unemployment goes down, a majority of Spaniards support him.

The economy does not go well, there is an excess in public expenditures (maybe to gain more votes), and it is going to cause a huge deficit (the proper government stated that). Unemployment is going down, but it is prone to go so because of the economic inertia of the last government economic policy. A majority of spaniards? I don't think so. They haven't got any majority in the parliament. As a matter of fact, they have to come up with settlements with minoritary parties (most of them independentists parties like ERC (esquerra republicana de Cataluña), PNV (national basque partie), and so on. This policy is deteriorating our democracy, because the minority is governing now indeed.

Perhaps you support the following, and that would explain everything: " (About Aznar) A devout Catholic, the Popular Party leader took a tough stance against gay marriage and abortion. His conservative government passed a law making Catholic classes mandatory in public schools and fought to include the mention of Christianity in the European Constitution"

You are writing this to sound like super conservative measures. Aznar was in a centered position. And yes, I prefer to have a proper identity and show it to the rest of the world (we are christians) rather than leave my country available for muslims and their islamic integrism. Why is a sin to have a christian identity but having a muslim identity is well seen by some idiots? Why Spain, who has a great historical backround in christianism, catholicism, who got rid of the arabs who conquered our terrains, why do we have to be shamed for being christians??

And yes, I prefer to see a hospital built with public expenditures rather than the State financing operations for change of sex and abortive operations.

In fact our goverment, due to the minority policy I have mentioned above, hasn't got a proper personality, and is unable to establish an economic plan for the whole nation. Mercator, you must know that here doesn't exist any conservative position like Bush. It's impossible. Also Aznar was very more centered than you've put across here.

 

[Mercator]

Sorry, Clausius, I respect your OPINION. It's a pity that you cannot support it whith facts.

 

[Clausius2]

A fact: Zapatero has forbidden Catholic classes at schools, but he has allowed to teach muslim religion there. Surprising, isn't it?

 

[Mercator]

A fact: Zapatero has forbidden Catholic classes at schools, but he has allowed to teach muslim religion there. Surprising, isn't it?

Ahemmm... any links?

 

[Mercator]

Perhaps you mean this;

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1001/p07s02-woeu.htm

Last week, his administration announced plans for a "road map" that would treat all religions equally under the law, remove religious symbols from public spaces, and end compulsory religious instruction in public schools.

Another deliberate attempt to prove whatever point you want to make by abusing the facts? Or do you mean that your religion should be more equal than another one's?

 

[Clausius2]

Or do you mean that your religion should be more equal than another one's?

Of course If you mean my religion has to be more present in spanish culture than islamic religion. Of course again, the majority of us are christians. It's a question of common sense.

 

[Mercator]

Of course If you mean my religion has to be more present in spanish culture than islamic religion. Of course again, the majority of us are christians. It's a question of common sense.

You don't read, do you?

So again:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1001/p07s02-woeu.htm

"The church has long had a monopoly on morality," says Mayoral, "but now there is not just one religion, but a plurality of faiths." He notes that today less than 30 percent of Spaniards identify themselves as practicing Catholics, while roughly 70 percent did 25 years ago.
The country's religious composition now is also far more diverse: There are an estimated 1,000,000 Muslims and more than 2,000,000 Protestants living within Spain's borders.




And I did not say that your religion has no right to be more PRESENT. Do you understand equal treatment versus equally present?
Anyway, you cannot give substance to your original claim, so what is your real agenda here? Is your family name Franco?

 

[Locrian]

Being American, the only countries I know anything about are my own and Iraq.

Was there an edit, or is this a misquote?

 

[Clausius2]

You don't read, do you?

So again:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1001/p07s02-woeu.htm

"The church has long had a monopoly on morality," says Mayoral, "but now there is not just one religion, but a plurality of faiths." He notes that today less than 30 percent of Spaniards identify themselves as practicing Catholics, while roughly 70 percent did 25 years ago.
The country's religious composition now is also far more diverse: There are an estimated 1,000,000 Muslims and more than 2,000,000 Protestants living within Spain's borders.

And I did not say that your religion has no right to be more PRESENT. Do you understand equal treatment versus equally present?
Anyway, you cannot give substance to your original claim, so what is your real agenda here? Is your family name Franco?

Be sure I am not going to waste any minute at reading a report made by a foreigner about my country. I know better than him what is happening here. Do not say stupid things, because I will have to name you STUPID instead of FRANCO. Measure your words, Mercator. I haven't got anymore to say to you. So please do not write here never again.

 

[Mercator]

Be sure I am not going to waste any minute at reading a report made by a foreigner about my country. I know better than him what is happening here. Do not say stupid things, because I will have to name you STUPID instead of FRANCO. Measure your words, Mercator. I haven't got anymore to say to you. So please do not write here never again.

If you want to be taken serious, then give facts, figures, references about the bad deeds of Zapatero. But apparently you cannot.
Frankly spoken, it is about time that a Zapatero comes along in Spain. Your sacred catholic heritage has brought us niceties like the inquisition, brutal colonisation in the name of christ, invasion of a.o. my country and the last dictatorship in Western Europe. If you are proud of that, that's your problem. But Europe has changed and luckily so did most of your country. We don't need that catholic fundamentalism anymore. And if you like it or not, your country is being made secular at last. I pity people that need to vent their frustration because they are loosing their unearned favourite treatment, on a foreign website, but are too stiff to even consider that perhaps somebody does not agree with them. What a disgrace it must be for such a person that the most beautiful buildings in his country are not catholic, but Islamic; the Alhambra.

 

[Mercator]

And it's agreed I will not write here never again.

 

[Mercator]

BTW, you started this thread so called to know the opinion of the people here on Mr. Zapatero, but when the reactions do not fit your preassumptions, you start whining. If your opinion is that " Zapatero can do as many good things that he likes, I am a right wing conservative catholic and I will never approve of a man like Zapatero", then just say it and we don't need to spend any more time on such an obviously biased piece of nonsense and you can aslo spend more time in church.

 

[Political Prodigy]

Be sure I am not going to waste any minute at reading a report made by a foreigner about my country. I know better than him what is happening here. Do not say stupid things, because I will have to name you STUPID instead of FRANCO. Measure your words, Mercator. I haven't got anymore to say to you. So please do not write here never again.
__________________

If this is how you treat people I need not waste my time posting my feelings and views on the topic. You have no right to ask him to "not write here ever again" its called a free forum. Perhaps the current socialism in your country is blurring the meaning of freedom for you. You seem to have a problem reading a report from a foreigner about your country but you read reports from your media about OUR country, how is this different? Also I, along with just about every other American (if not EVERY) on these forums go to the links provided by you and other Europeans. I can not even believe you would say what you said in that last post.
"I will have to name you stupid" real nice.

"please do not write here ever again" and you have the right to say this?

"I am not going to waste any minute at reading a report made by a foreigner about my country. I know better than him what is happening here."

We know plenty well what is happening in America but you seemed to like to comment on our election, not to mention MANY other things. How is that different?

 

[Evo]

This thread has become a religious battle, closed.