Why Does Israel Target Civilian Water Infrastructure?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the reasons behind Israel's actions towards Gaza, specifically in regards to bombing water wells and denying the entry of plastic replacement pieces for those wells. There is a disagreement between the participants regarding the justification for these actions, with one side citing the ongoing conflict with Hamas and the other questioning the necessity of such measures. The conversation also touches on the issue of economic sanctions and humanitarian aid in Gaza.
  • #36
russ_watters said:
"Was" being the operative word there, of course - once Hamas destroyed dissent with military force, they became an illegal government.

But that doesn't really have anything to do with the subject of the thread...
It is interesting that on this forum you can get away with claiming that Hamas' election was equivalent to destroying an existing government with military force. Prove it or back down and apologize for the lies. I'm getting sick of the constant Israel suck-up and the constant demonization of Palestinians who were driven from their homes driven into refugee status by the Zionists. I know that the the Jews were badly treated by anti-Semites in Europe. It sucks to see them subject the Palestinians to the same type of treatment.
 
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  • #37
turbo-1 said:
It is interesting that on this forum you can get away with claiming that Hamas' election was equivalent to destroying an existing government with military force. Prove it or back down and apologize for the lies. I'm getting sick of the constant Israel suck-up and the constant demonization of Palestinians who were driven from their homes driven into refugee status by the Zionists. I know that the the Jews were badly treated by anti-Semites in Europe. It sucks to see them subject the Palestinians to the same type of treatment.

i believe it has a lot to do with the constant threat of annihilation that israel receives from its neighbors. if it hadn't been for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War" , there would be no gaza situation to speak of. so, sure, i find it very difficult to sympathize with gazans. they've had plenty of time to move out.
 
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  • #38
turbo-1 said:
It is interesting that on this forum you can get away with claiming that Hamas' election was equivalent to destroying an existing government with military force.
I did nothing of the sort! What I said was that Hamas was elected, then they destroyed opposition and the rest of the government with military force.
Prove it or back down and apologize for the lies. I'm getting sick of the constant Israel suck-up...
Jeez, talk about common knowledge events that people forget easily!:
The Fatah-Hamas conflict (Arabic: النزاع بين فتح و حماس‎ Al-Nizāʿ bain Fataḥ wa Ḥamās), also referred to as the Palestinian Civil War (Arabic: الحرب الأهلية الفلسطينية Al-Ḥarb al-ʾAhliyyah al-Filisṭīnīyah), and the Conflict of Brothers (Arabic: صراع الأخوة Ṣirāʿ al-Ikhwah), began in 2006 and has continued, in one form or another, into 2009. The conflict is between the two main Palestinian parties, Fatah and Hamas. The majority of the fighting is occurring in the Gaza Strip where fighting began after Hamas' legislative victories. Hamas remains in control of the Gaza Strip. The conflict is called Wakseh among Palestinians, meaning humiliation, ruin, and collapse as a result of self-inflicted damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_civil_skirmishes

Key point:
On June 14th Abbas dissolved the Palestinian-Hamas unity government, on June 15th, Hamas completed the control over Gaza.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007 )

...and the constant demonization of Palestinians who were driven from their homes driven into refugee status by the Zionists.
You must be misreading. Most people (including me) show a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian people - it is Hamas that we don't like.
...I know that the the Jews were badly treated by anti-Semites in Europe. It sucks to see them subject the Palestinians to the same type of treatment.
Yikes, Turbo, the same type of treatment? Honestly, that's sick that you would make such a comparison. Seriously, it is disturbing that such thoughts could exist in your head.
 
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  • #39
russ_watters said:
Yikes, Turbo, the same type of treatment? Honestly, that's sick that you would make such a comparison. Seriously, it is disturbing that such thoughts could exist in your head.
It is very sick, yes. It gives me quite some pain down in my belly. I started this thread because I need help stopping those thoughts to come to my mind as I read the news everyday.
 
  • #40
turbo-1 said:
It is interesting that on this forum you can get away with claiming that Hamas' election was equivalent to destroying an existing government with military force. Prove it or back down and apologize for the lies. I'm getting sick of the constant Israel suck-up and the constant demonization of Palestinians who were driven from their homes driven into refugee status by the Zionists. I know that the the Jews were badly treated by anti-Semites in Europe. It sucks to see them subject the Palestinians to the same type of treatment.
Hamas first took over by force then "won" an election. Fair election? When people are in fear of their lives?

Also, can the attitude.
 
  • #41
Evo said:
Hamas first took over by force then "won" an election. Fair election? When people are in fear of their lives?
I think you have it backwards...

[edit] Actually - I guess they just had another election, so maybe not...
 
  • #42
for those of you who don't know: look at the reports on an American payed Fatah militia leader Dahlan overthrow attempt against Hamas with the money going through Bandar Bin Sultan, and the training happening in Egypt. then you know why Hamas went and overthrew Fatah in Gaza. now, i don't agree with Hamas on some of its methods, but Fatah has become more and more corrupt, more and more unpopular, and more and more tyrannical. Israel is sieging Gaza, i don't see how this is different from the siege of Sarajevo or the siege of Palestinian refugee camps in the Lebanon civil war. let me get this point across: Hamas WILL have the ability to keep on firing rockets and making them. as many chemists here might know, you can use almost anything to make said rockets. when Israel stopped anything from entering the strip, it still had rockets being fired against it. the siege was and is ineffective against hams. it is very effective against the Palestinian civilians. its effect on Palestinian civilians is as follows: they now support Hamas less than they initially did, but the support Fatah even less and they loath Israel even more than they did before the siege.
 
  • #43
What a utterly stupid discussion.

The ONLY conclusion to the whole israeli/palestine mess is that a BIG PART of both sides are just crazy and simply are not human anymore after years and years of fueling hatred. I have no respect for either side as they both stink.

Taking part in any discussion favoring either side is just stupidity. Pardon my french.

And the funny thing, they are excatly the same people. so sad.
 
  • #44
"demonising"

turbo-1 said:
I'm getting sick of the constant Israel suck-up and the constant demonization of Palestinians …

Nobody is "demonising" the Palestininans, or Fatah …

the "demonising" is of Hamas.

See this commentary of the Hamas charter … http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
"Copyright by MidEastWeb for Coexistence R.A - Middle East - http://www.mideastweb.org. All rights reserved."
Hamas Principles

The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

The charter is a rather classical Islamist document, applied to the local issues. It declares that Jihad (in the sense of armed battle) is the only solution. It cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a ludicrous anti-Semitic forgery.

The "Zionists" and the freemasons and others are blamed for what Hamas and radical Islamists see as the major calamities of the world, especially the French Revolution.

One of the most ominous aspects of the Charter however, is this Hadith:

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).​
The implication is clear: Allah promised that the Jews will be murdered, and the Hamas "aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take."

That's pretty demonic, isn't it? :frown:
turbo-1 said:
… who were driven from their homes driven into refugee status by the Zionists. I know that the the Jews were badly treated by anti-Semites in Europe.

The Jews were also badly treated in Arab countries …

what about the Jews "who were driven from their homes driven into refugee status" during the Jewish naqba, at the same time as the Palestinian naqba?

For example, the 120,000 Iraqi Jews, mostly from Baghdad, who were expelled, with nobody now clamouring for their right of return to Baghdad? … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands#Iraq
 
  • #45
maybe because that was a direct result of the palestinian nakba? and because they are now an 'occupying' force, instead of an occupied force?
 
  • #46
humanino said:
It is very sick, yes. It gives me quite some pain down in my belly. I started this thread because I need help stopping those thoughts to come to my mind as I read the news everyday.
At least you get the news in your media, humanino. You can search US media in vain for any mention of Israel's refusal to allow France's gift of a water treatment system to enter Gaza, though on January 30th, it hit the media all over the world after France was forced to repatriate the system. It is no wonder that many people in the US are unaware of human-rights abuses against Palestinians - they are simply not reported in the US media. The World Bank has spent a lot of time and money improving Gaza's water systems - now further improvements must wait until destroyed wells and pumping systems can be repaired.
 
  • #47
I for one am getting sick and tired of the people who throw down the same reasoning that has been soundly defeated time and time and time again. Doing a simple body count comparison! Such intentional deception should be grounds for banning in my opinion.

Hamas shoots rockets into Israel. It doesn't matter that they miss their target! I call anyone who makes such a proposal a hypocrite.
 
  • #48
seycyrus said:
I for one am getting sick and tired of the people who throw down the same reasoning that has been soundly defeated time and time and time again. Doing a simple body count comparison! Such intentional deception should be grounds for banning in my opinion.

Hamas shoots rockets into Israel. It doesn't matter that they miss their target! I call anyone who makes such a proposal a hypocrite.
It's not clear what specific proposal you are attacking, but to play devil's advocate for a bit, here's a question: how do you determine what level of aggression (and accordingly, what level of collateral damage) is justified by any given threat?

For instance, your argument above does not provide any reason to criticize Israel if they simply nuked (or carpet bombed) all of Gaza, so would you support or condone such an action?

I agree that an "argument" that begins and ends at a body count fails to meet the definition of an argument, but I do not believe that a comparison of body counts can not be a part of a rational argument.
 
  • #49
Gokul43201 said:
It's not clear what specific proposal you are attacking, but to play devil's advocate for a bit, here's a question: how do you determine what level of aggression (and accordingly, what level of collateral damage) is justified by any given threat?

I do not have a formula to calculate the level of a justified response. But to simply dismiss any attack due to the fact that the attacker is inept, is ridiculous.

We do not live our daily lives that way. If someone was shooting at you, it is not deemed necessary for them to actually wound or kill you before you return fire. And if you are a better shot and/or have a bigger gun...

Gokul43201 said:
For instance, your argument above does not provide any reason to criticize Israel if they simply nuked (or carpet bombed) all of Gaza, so would you support or condone such an action?

I guess (as i thought was clear), I would have to know the stimulus that was provoking such a response.

OTH, suppose it was discovered that Hamas was continually trying to nuke Israel, but was failing because they are inept. What level of cuplability do you assign them if Israel nukes them back? Closer to 0% or closer to 100% ?
 
  • #50
russ_watters said:
Animosity toward Israel is not based on that body count - if it were, the many cease-fires that Israel has tried would end up being permanent. If you want to know why the animosity exists, just ask Hamas: It exists because Israel exists on land they claim as their own. Thus it is quite logically clear that any peace under the current status quo is to Israel's benefit and Hamas's detriment: so it is in Hamas's interest to continue to fight -- which is, of course, why the fighting continues.

If I kill millions of your country men, and then when you attempt to defend yourself against the holocaust, I call a cease-fire, and then claim that your self defense is an act of aggression, how could that make any such cease-fires be permanent? I'm curious. How could animosity towards Israel not be based on body count? That's like arguing that "the hostility towards Nazism is not based on body count, because if the Jews would just surrender to Nazism as that ideology demanded, there would be a permanent cease-fire".
 
  • #51
seycyrus said:
We do not live our daily lives that way. If someone was shooting at you, it is not deemed necessary for them to actually wound or kill you before you return fire. And if you are a better shot and/or have a bigger gun...
You don't even have to be a better shot. If you have an automatic, you just have to pepper the general direction of the shooter with everything you've got, and stop only when you run out of ammo. You can feel certain that way that you've got your attacker (and the dozens of other people that happened to be in that general direction).

OTH, suppose it was discovered that Hamas was continually trying to nuke Israel, but was failing because they are inept. What level of cuplability do you assign them if Israel nukes them back? Closer to 0% or closer to 100% ?
Who is "them" - Israel or Hamas? Also, I don't understand how you assign percentages to culpability.

I would blame Hamas for attempting mass murder and provoking conflict, and if Israel's reaction was found to be irrational in the response (say, if Hamas was known to be nowhere close to being capable of carrying out such an attack), then I would blame them for executing a mass murder.
 
  • #52
How long will it take for Israelis to realize that they have no future in the middle east. The UN should pass legislation to divide Israel's population into western countries where they will be safe. They thought that having a Jewish state would make them safe, only problem is that their Jewish state is surrounded by people who wish them death.

I never understood why they went there in the first place? They just finally got freed from Nazis and the War had ended, all was now safe for them, so what happens, they go to another place, and start a war so that they can live with other people who don't want them their.

Now what do they have? They have been at war practically since they got there, their state is infested with Russian Mafia, and they are getting a bad rap around the world for their war activities.
 
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  • #53
Moridin said:
If I kill millions of your country men, and then when you attempt to defend yourself against the holocaust, I call a cease-fire, and then claim that your self defense is an act of aggression, how could that make any such cease-fires be permanent? I'm curious. How could animosity towards Israel not be based on body count? That's like arguing that "the hostility towards Nazism is not based on body count, because if the Jews would just surrender to Nazism as that ideology demanded, there would be a permanent cease-fire".
I'm not sure what you are talking about - who has killed millions of who? And you're making the holocaust connection too - the Nazis were not trying to steal land from the Jews, they just tried to kill all of them.

In any case, you really need to read some history or just read some speeches of Palestinian leaders if you think this is about body count! But then, if you really, honestly think this is about genocide (that Israel is trying to kill all Palestinians), then it makes sense you'd think it is about body count -- but that shows a severe lack of understanding that looks more like blind emotion. Such comparisons show a clear and complete lack of rational thought.
 
  • #54
Gokul43201 said:
I would blame Hamas for attempting mass murder and provoking conflict, and if Israel's reaction was found to be irrational in the response (say, if Hamas was known to be nowhere close to being capable of carrying out such an attack), then I would blame them for executing a mass murder.
Note (and I'm agreeing with you here), a lot has been made of Israel's response not being proportional and I've argued that there is no reason it should be. But there is a line and a nuke is waaay on the other side of it.
 
  • #55
russ_watters said:
Jeez, talk about common knowledge events that people forget easily!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_civil_skirmishes

There is a key point in your link which you overlook in your condemnation of Hamas's takeover of the Gaza Strip:

U.S. funding, weapons and training for Fatah
Over 2006 and 2007, the United States supplied guns, ammunition and training to Palestinian Fatah activists to take on Hamas in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank in a U.S. effort that cost $59 million and covertly persuaded Arab allies to supply more funding. A large number of Fatah activists were trained and "graduated" from two West Bank camps while Jordan and Egypt trained two Fatah battalions, one of which was deployed to Gaza in May.[6][7][8]

According to Vanity Fair, in 2006 the United States initiated a "covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war."

Granted, I suppose such facts are irrelevant if you respect such attempts to subvert democracy.

Evo said:
Hamas first took over by force then "won" an election. Fair election? When people are in fear of their lives?

Now there is a timeline and a charge I know you can't substantiate.

russ_watters said:
...the Nazis were not trying to steal land from the Jews, they just tried to kill all of them.

The Nazis worked on efforts to drive out Jews long before they started rounding them up and killing them off, "Jews go back to Palestine" being a common motto of the time. Am I to take it you would have supported the Nazi's ethnic-nationalist conquest as you do Israel's, if only the former never committed to their finial solution?

By the way, all this talk about Gaza is overlooking the bigger picture of Israel's conquest over Palestine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/20/israelandthepalestinians-israeli-elections-2009" .
 
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  • #56
That's a real problem for me too, kyleb. There are still survivors of the Holocaust living in Israel. How must they feel to see Palestinians who were driven from their lands, homes, farms, and businesses by terrorist paramilitary groups in the 1940s, and herded into territories in which they have no rights, no right to travel, and are publicly de-humanized by the Israeli government who constantly conflate Palestinian=terrorist? It is ridiculous to call women, children, shop-owners, mechanics, etc, terrorists, but the propaganda machine paints with a very broad brush. Cannot they see parallels to the treatment of the Jews in Europe? Nazi Germany was not the only place where Jews were persecuted - just the most effective at eliminating them.

Israel's willingness to use cluster munitions and white-phosphorus shells in heavily-populated civilian areas speaks of a callous disregard for the lives of Arabs. I for one am ashamed that my country (US) has armed and continually funds Israel and stands back in what appears to be tacit approval while civilian populations and the infrastructure necessary to provide for their basic needs (wells, pumping stations, etc, in Gaza so recently) are targeted. I am heartened by Obama's appointment of George Mitchell as his envoy in that region, but Mitchell's success in negotiating a peace in Northern Ireland was a piece of cake compared to this situation.

BTW, I voted for Mitchell every time he came up for election, and he grew up in a town about 40 miles from here. He is of Irish and Lebanese descent, and his home town has a vibrant and thriving community of Lebanese Christians. At the same time that I voted for the Democrat to get and keep his Senate seat, I also voted every time to keep Bill Cohen (R) Maine in his. Cohen was Clinton's secretary of defense, and I wish Obama had tapped him.
 
  • #57
turbo-1 said:
There are still survivors of the Holocaust living in Israel. How must they feel to see Palestinians who were driven from their lands, homes, farms, and businesses by terrorist paramilitary groups in the 1940s, and herded into territories in which they have no rights, no right to travel, and are publicly de-humanized by the Israeli government who constantly conflate Palestinian=terrorist?
Here's what the descendant of one of them who happens to be a former British gov't senior minister thinks,
MP makes Israeli troops Nazi link

...Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, told MPs: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town .. a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza."

"The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

"We had an IRA bomb in Manchester which destroyed much of the centre - we didn't send troops over to Belfast to murder 1,000 Catholics."

Sir Gerald said he had been a long-term supporter of Israel and has personally known many of its prime ministers.

"I am not going to stand by and keep silent when the Israeli troops - with a dreadful government sending them there - kill large numbers of innocent people with no useful result at the end of it all."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/7834487.stm
 
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  • #58
it is the fault of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria that these people are in this predicament. so they should resettle them in their own countries.
 
  • #59
Proton Soup said:
it is the fault of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria that these people are in this predicament. so they should resettle them in their own countries.
And complete the ethnic cleansing started 60 years ago by the Zionists? Why is that a good idea?
 
  • #60
Let's analyze a one-sided view of Israel's domination of the Palestinians, militarily, socially and nationally.
since the military and civilians are completely intertwined, in order to attack the military supply sources in Gaza, you must attack the civilian ones as well
"since the military and civilians are completely intertwined, as Israeli soldiers are bivouacked in domestic housing, in order to attack the military supply sources in Israel, you must attack the civilian ones as well"
The intertwining of the civilian and military supply strucutres and therefore the insertion of them into the conflict is Hama's choice, not Israel's.
"The intertwining of the civilian and military supply structures and therefore the insertion of them into the conflict, as domestic barracks for infantry, is Israel's choice, not Hamas'."
Israeli attacks on Gaza do not in any way harm Israel directly,
Except for creating thousands of civilian and child deaths, and radicalising the population who all have memories.
Israel isn't responsible for the radicals or the civilian deaths, or the refugees so it has nothing to worry about since it isn't "directly responsible"?

Yeah, ...right.

Hamas is in control of the direction of the war
Hamas has F-16s and US munitions, a big supply of them, like billions of dollars worth? Where does Hamas keep its airforce and navy?

: they are the ones who have objectives to achieve via fighting, not Israel. They are responsible for the plight they put their citizens in by continuing to fight.
Israel doesn't have objectives, Israel just wants peace - this is its only objective - billions worth of US munitions have been wasted on the Palestinians, in trying to get Israel's message across.
 
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  • #61
turbo-1 said:
And complete the ethnic cleansing started 60 years ago by the Zionists? Why is that a good idea?

aren't they all the same ethnicity, semites?
 
  • #62
kyleb said:
...Granted, I suppose such facts are irrelevant if you respect such attempts to subvert democracy.
Fatah was the duly elected democratic government at the time and was deserving of foreign support. Your argument could have been used in support of the 19th century southern Confederate States of America government, which was also democratically elected.
 
  • #63
turbo-1 said:
That's a real problem for me too, kyleb. There are still survivors of the Holocaust living in Israel. How must they feel to see...

Most Israelis, and Americans, Holocaust survivors or otherwise, see little of what Israel is doing in the occupied territories. Even visiting the territories doesn't reveal much unless one goes looking for it, as Israeli settlements and bypass roads are designed to keep Palestinians out of view. What is http://www.btselem.org/Download/Separation_Barrier_Map_Eng.pdf" which exposes in great detail the lengths which have been undertaken to hide the nature of this conquest though urban planning.

Also on the issue of Holocaust survivors in Israel, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/06/world/middleeast/06mideast.html" .

turbo-1 said:
Israel's willingness to use cluster munitions and white-phosphorus shells in heavily-populated civilian areas speaks of a callous disregard for the lives of Arabs.


That it does, and that is just the http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5862" .

And yeah, Obama's appointment of Mitchel while a promising is a long way from wrapping this mess up. Also, Cohen would certainly be a massive improvement over Gates.

Art said:
Here's what the descendant of one of them who happens to be a former British gov't senior minister thinks, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/7834487.stm

And a few thousand words worth of pictures from another son of Holocaust survivors:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510

Proton Soup said:
it is the fault of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria that these people are in this predicament. so they should resettle them in their own countries.

None of those nations asked for Palestinians to have their homeland colonized out from under them by overwhelming military force. How have you pushed the onus to on them?
 
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  • #64
kyleb said:
None of those nations asked for Palestinians to have their homeland colonized out from under them by overwhelming military force. How have you pushed the onus to on them?

yeah, and the israelis had the land before them.
 
  • #65
Note the myth: "the Israelis had the land", Israelis are European Jews mostly, the only land they've "had" for about 2000 years has been any they've purchased legally from European nations (and America).

Any country that relies on outside military support, generally develops a fascist ideology.
Since they have no concerns with achieving dominance, it's delivered to them in arms shipments and large loans.

Most countries have to balance the economic books - if Israel had to pay for its US military assets, it would be bankrupt economically. Instead it can afford to be bankrupt morally, this is no problem when you have overwhelming military strength, just look at Hitler and the Nazis.
 
  • #66
sirchasm said:
Any country that relies on outside military support, generally develops a fascist ideology.
Since they have no concerns with achieving dominance, it's delivered to them in arms shipments and large loans.

Most countries have to balance the economic books - if Israel had to pay for its US military assets, it would be bankrupt economically. Instead it can afford to be bankrupt morally, this is no problem when you have overwhelming military strength, just look at Hitler and the Nazis.

do you know that we (USA) supply arms to both Egypt and Saudia Arabia?
 
  • #67
sirchasm said:
Any country that relies on outside military support, generally develops a fascist ideology.
Pretty much the entire developed Western world plus much of Asia (Japan, S. Korea) depends on some portion of US military support, in particular US air and satellite support.
 
  • #68
Proton Soup said:
yeah, and the israelis had the land before them.
Now you're just being silly. The Celts had Great Britain once so can they expect US military aid to kick the English out and retake their homeland?
 
  • #69
mheslep said:
Fatah was the duly elected democratic government at the time and was deserving of foreign support. Your argument could have been used in support of the 19th century southern Confederate States of America government, which was also democratically elected.
your timing is a little off. Hamas won the election in 2006 but Fatah despite losing refused to relinquish power. It was only after their electoral defeat that the US rushed military aid to Fatah to help them cling to power by force of arms.
 
  • #70
Pretty much the entire developed Western world plus much of Asia (Japan, S. Korea) depends on some portion of US military support, in particular US air and satellite support.
You're exposing US hegemony, but aside from that issue, Israel is just another beneficiary?
How many beneficiaries have 5bn worth of arms delivered annually, like Israel gets?
Israel doesn't get special treatment? The US delivers the same amount to, say Egypt, or Saudi Arabia?

"Here you are, and have a nice war"...?
Or "...you want nukes to go? No problemo!"
 

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