Numb3rs: A Missed Opportunity for Mathematical Accuracy

[motai]

I don't know about you, but this show was a real disappointment. It tried to be a CSI remake with mathematics, but they glanced past the mathematics for the most part, making it pale and uninteresting.

Equations would fly by the scene but the equations would be fictictious and non-relevant to the situation. Conceptually the producers of the show might know of applications of the math... but as for knowing it... anyone's guess. They should have the main actor be a mathematician or at the very least, hire one as an advisor. I saw no calculus (which would have fit at least some of the situations regarding a few parabolic trajectories and map area) during the duration of the show. They seemed rooted in Algebra II land.

The only thing I recognized in the strange, creepy, overcomplicated equations were sigma from the summation formulas and a few thetas with some variables, and a scattered |x-x1| on the board. No attempts were made by the character or through his interactions with others what the different variables mean. Most of the time it was just him saying "I can calculate that" and "got it" as he scrambles to his brother with maps.

The supposed mathematician, even though he is supposed to be the main character, shows up far less often than his crime-solving brother. His counterpart physicist is portrayed as a bumbling fool who doesn't do his own math, and get this, is working on a "super-gravity theory" (! red flag)

The mathematical portion was supposed to be the most refreshing part of the crime scene thing, but the network executives probably had to dumbify it down to please the masses (who probably don't like math anyway). Perhaps my expectations were a little too high, but darnit I thought it was a show about math! I'll watch the next show and take notes... see if they reuse their equations .

Anyone want to vent their views over this show?

 

[JasonRox]

My problem is people like you expecting something good out of CBS.

You know your smarter than that.

 

[mattmns]

When I first saw the preview for this show I laughed. A show about math, please, nobody would watch it, there is no way cbs could be that stupid. I guess from what you said it was hardly about math at all, which means it may last longer than I thought. I may watch the next episode to just see for myself.

 

[Evo]

I've never heard of it. I just checked tv guide online and here is part of the review "This was a pretty good show, especially the extra graphics and effects used to make deadly boring math mildly interesting."

I'm sorry motai, but if tv guide thinks the math is real, all America thinks it's real.

 

[motai]

I've never heard of it. I just checked tv guide online and here is part of the review "This was a pretty good show, especially the extra graphics and effects used to make deadly boring math mildly interesting."

I'm sorry motai, but if tv guide thinks the math is real, all America thinks it's real.

Aaah the horror! The reviews were probably written by someone who failed Algebra I several times!

...then again, I think I'm in the minority opinion when it comes to these things.

TV guide is evil. The extra graphics weren't that good. The math is better. Pah.

 

[JasonRox]

These kinds of shows are made so that the average person "feels" smarter.

 

[Moonbear]

I haven't heard of it either. Guess it's that good, huh? Sadly, if you know enough about science, all of those shows lose their credibility. There are plenty of scenes in CSI that are just as unrealistic. I just enjoy laughing at scenes nobody else thinks are supposed to be funny. I enjoy the show, but am probably one of the few who thinks it's a comedy. Sometimes it's in the minor details, like they never seem to have gloves that fit while trying to prepare a wet mount of something, and then what they "see" under the microscope is always hysterical.

 

[Astronuc]

I heard about the show on an NPR program, Weekend Edition, last Saturday. You can hear the interview at - Math and Crime-Solving by the 'Numb3rs'. Hit the 'Listen' button and select RealPlayer or Windows Media.

Weekend Edition - Saturday, January 22, 2005 · Weekend Edition math specialist Keith Devlin talks about the new CBS crime series Numb3rs.

Apparently the producers hired a 'real' mathematician (from Caltech or possibly Stanford) to make 'real' equations. Since I really don't watch TV, I haven't seen it.

 

[Evo]

Apparently the producers hired a 'real' mathematician (from Caltech or possibly Stanford) to make 'real' equations. Since I really don't watch TV, I haven't seen it.

And that mathematician was probably screaming at the tv throughout the entire show "that's NOT what I wrote down!" "Where the hell did that come from?" because some set designer took the numbers and symbols and made them "look" better by mixing them up.

 

[Astronuc]

And that mathematician was probably screaming at the tv throughout the entire show "that's NOT what I wrote down!" "Where the hell did that come from?" because some set designer took the numbers and symbols and made them "look" better by mixing them up.

You are so skeptical. Haven't you heard of reality TV?

 

[franznietzsche]

This only adds to my conclusion that humanity is too stupid for its own good. I mean really. How am i suppsoed to be civil to people that are stupid enough to buy into that kind of crap?

grumble grumble...

 

[Ti]

The equation Charlie creates is the same equation successfully used in a serial rape case in Louisiana.

Prof. Gary Lorden created all the other equations used in the show and approved them before airing.

Numb3rs is a network TV show. It's a crime procedural.

But it's also a math show. A math show in the sense that it really wants to get the general public to think about the role of mathematics in their lives -- and how fundamentally important it is to our society, culture and scientific understanding of the world around us.

We're giving it our best shot.

 

[gravenewworld]

Numbers is a TV show, its number 1 priority is to entertain, not to give a lecture on mathematics. people on this forum take the show a little too seriously with regards to the math involved.

 

[franznietzsche]

Numbers is a TV show, its number 1 priority is to entertain, not to give a lecture on mathematics. people on this forum take the show a little too seriously with regards to the math involved.

For some of us, mathematics are our living (in one way or another) of course we'll take such things seriously.

 

[Moonbear]

For some of us, mathematics are our living (in one way or another) of course we'll take such things seriously.

Really, it's not worth getting all worked up about a TV show, especially one that is intended to be fiction. If they were doing a documentary on math and scrambled the equations, then that would be a problem.

Now that you guys mentioned the show, I guess my ears have been tuned in better to hear others talking about it. Apparently shows like CSI have made science seem "cool," and even if it takes a lot of liberties with how forensics is done, it gets the average person to realize science is something important. It seems that with Numb3rs, they are trying to do the same thing with math. People aren't supposed to learn math from the show, just start realizing it's a cool thing that has a lot of really important uses so they might be more willing to learn it or encourage their kids to learn it.

 

[juvenal]

I watched it myself, since it's been hyped at Caltech (also wanted to see what parts of the campus they used for the shots), and it was right after the NFL playoff game. I thought it was entertaining enough, and didn't really find issue with it. However, I don't watch CSI - so I don't know if this show is a stale rehash.

I am curious how they'll manage to incorporate more math into future episodes before it gets either too goofy or too repetitious.

Honestly, I hope the show works out. Promoting math to the general public, even in a dumbed down fashion is a good thing.

Was kind of bugged/confused at the end when the single-node solution worked out (the guy moved), even though the dual-node solution was also shown to be correct. It seems to me like those solutions should be mutually exclusive.

Question is: where can I find hot grad students like the one the math prof is advising?

 

[Nereid]

But just as science isn't 'really' about the specific 'results' (e.g. XYZ's Theory of ABC), but the method, perhaps these TV shows aren't 'really' about {insert what you'd like them to be about, or not}.

The shows have to sell, so there must be a story (dramatic tension, sex scene, resolution, whatever) ... and catching 'perps' (is that what they're really called?) is always good viewing (drama, justice, gore, violence, ...). Maybe it isn't 'about' math at all, that's just a plot device, with the added advantage that it shows how math benefits society and the individual (I'm guessing there's a 'drop dead gorgeous chick' somewhere among the cast) ... so math can be cool?

Or maybe it's just problem solving, and next we'll have one with electrical, civil, aerospace, etc engineers as the heros.

 

[juvenal]

The theme of the first one, I thought, was about using probability to find the serial killer. So there was a discussion of lottery tickets, baseball players being due, finding the location of a water sprinkler based on the location of the drops, and "random" distributions of people in a room.

So now that they've kind of exhausted (in my mind) the whole probability theme, what other sorts of mathematical topics are left that would be really applicable to crime-fighting? I'm not sure, though I haven't thought very hard about this.

The brother of the FBI agent is a math prof at a research university in Pasadena (didn't want to use the name Caltech for some potential legal reasons, I believe). So - I expect that math, as opposed to engineering, will always dominate. I don't expect this show to head in the direction of McGuyver.

 

[BobG]

The mathematical portion was supposed to be the most refreshing part of the crime scene thing, but the network executives probably had to dumbify it down to please the masses (who probably don't like math anyway). Perhaps my expectations were a little too high, but darnit I thought it was a show about math! I'll watch the next show and take notes... see if they reuse their equations .

Anyone want to vent their views over this show?

That's only because of bad packaging.

If Math Is Hard were on the show, with her net stockings, high heels, HP-35 calculator, and her Post Versalog made of Hemmi bamboo, the viewers would love Math.

 

[Moonbear]

Question is: where can I find hot grad students like the one the math prof is advising?

They're all studying neuroscience! You should see the students around here! Sure, we have a few geeks and dweebs around, but we've got quite a few drop-dead gorgeous ones around too (of both sexes). I actually think it's about time we started sending our students out to high schools to talk about neuroscience, because it really would shatter the image of the mousy, scrawny student with geeky glasses and ill-fitting clothes.

 

[juvenal]

They're all studying neuroscience! You should see the students around here! Sure, we have a few geeks and dweebs around, but we've got quite a few drop-dead gorgeous ones around too (of both sexes). I actually think it's about time we started sending our students out to high schools to talk about neuroscience, because it really would shatter the image of the mousy, scrawny student with geeky glasses and ill-fitting clothes.

Hmm - maybe I can get a postdoc somewhere in neuroscience.

Actually - the geology and planetary science dept at Caltech is pretty good in terms of babeage. It's the math and physics depts that are grim, as they are pretty much everywhere. Maybe not Italy.

 

[MathStudent]

The entertainment industry's (in this case cbs) least concern is to make sure the math is right. They could care less if their posting the pythagorean theorem and claiming its a new law of quantum gravity . Their target audience is the lay person ( which constitutes the majority don't you think? ) so they only hire a mathematics consultant to give the show a little credibility, rathern than come up with a bunch of squiggley lines, smiley faces, and whatever funky symbols they can think of. You can't expect much more than that. If it were a documentary on the science channel however... that'd be a different story.

 

[Evo]

Numbers is on tonight. Tvguide's show description "The outcome (of a botched police shoot out) disturbs Charlie and he retreats into the family garage to work on an unsolvable math problem that he also plunged into after his mother became ill a year earlier".

I know I always head into the garage when I do math.

Perhaps Charlie will read tv guide and realize that the math problem he is working on is unsolvable and turn his efforts to something more productive?

 

[mattmns]

"The outcome (of a botched police shoot out) disturbs Charlie and he retreats into the family garage to work on an unsolvable math problem that he also plunged into after his mother became ill a year earlier".

Wow I know math is lame, but damn this makes it even lamer. I am, however, going to watch, I want to see this unsolvable math problem.

 

[Moonbear]

Numbers is on tonight. Tvguide's show description "The outcome (of a botched police shoot out) disturbs Charlie and he retreats into the family garage to work on an unsolvable math problem that he also plunged into after his mother became ill a year earlier".

I thought this show was supposed to help glamorize math, not make the mathematicians seem even more pathetic than the really are!

 

[franznietzsche]

Wow I know math is lame, but damn this makes it even lamer. I am, however, going to watch, I want to see this unsolvable math problem.

I'm going to laugh so hard if its the riemmann hypothesis. Seriously.

And hey, watch the math insults buddy. Us John Nash types are not known for being kind to those sorts of comments!

edit: then again, the name of the episode is uncertainy principle...hmmm...what could the problem be...

they'll probably never say. And that would be disappointing.

And why the garage? when i need to work i head out to the giant whiteboards with lots of coffee. mmm coffeee.

 

[Evo]

It just sounds so pathetic that I have to watch it now.

I'm sure that this is no ordinary garage.

Anyone that watches it tonight, please let me know what you think about the math, I'm curious.

 

[Moonbear]

I actually checked the TV listings (to make sure I knew when it was on, I have to check this show out now). You're in luck tonight, you have your choice of whether you want to watch a TV show mangling math or biology/chemistry. Numb3rs is up against Medical Investigators (I think they open up a medical textbook on obscure diseases to a random page and then try to twist a story around it, no matter how implausible).

And why the garage? when i need to work i head out to the giant whiteboards with lots of coffee. mmm coffeee.

Gotta love whiteboards. I finally installed one in my home office! I think so much better when writing on a whiteboard than on paper. And, yes, coffee...the breakfast of champions. Actually, I was thinking I should soon look up how many chocolate-covered espresso beans equals a cup of coffee in caffeine content. I have a package of beans here, and it says a serving is 2 beans! I've already eaten about a dozen (they're so small and yummy and make my headache go away). I hadn't read the serving size before munching away. Now I'm wondering if I'll be up all night or all weekend on this dose of caffeine, or will I not even notice?

 

[franznietzsche]

It just sounds so pathetic that I have to watch it now.

I'm sure that this is no ordinary garage.

Anyone that watches it tonight, please let me know what you think about the math, I'm curious.

i'll watch it, I'm stuck working next to the tv for the next few hours anyway, i'll give you the first hand report from the front after wards. HEck i'll even take notes, I'm not getting anywhere on radiative transport right now anyway.

 

[Evo]

i'll watch it, I'm stuck working next to the tv for the next few hours anyway, i'll give you the first hand report from the front after wards. HEck i'll even take notes, I'm not getting anywhere on radiative transport right now anyway.

Alrighty then! TV math reporter franznietzsche.

Maybe we should have a contest to see who can spot the most errors or inconsistencies?

 

[Evo]

Actually, I was thinking I should soon look up how many chocolate-covered espresso beans equals a cup of coffee in caffeine content. I have a package of beans here, and it says a serving is 2 beans! I've already eaten about a dozen (they're so small and yummy and make my headache go away). I hadn't read the serving size before munching away. Now I'm wondering if I'll be up all night or all weekend on this dose of caffeine, or will I not even notice?

Those beans are good.

My best friend in Itay knows how much I love coffee so he sent me a big box of coffee liqueur fillled chocolates. Mmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Moonbear]

Okay, ready to go!

10 PM...check
TV on...check
Tuned to CBS...check
Giant bowl of popcorn...check
can of Pepsi...check
blanket and pillow...check

All set!

 

[Moonbear]

Problem #1, without saying anything that will spoil the show for those on different time zones...they're trying to apply math to psychology as if human behavior is completely predictable based on equations.

The math guy is a real GEEK! This can't possibly be good for how people view math. They're still making it sound all mysterious and impossible to understand if you aren't a geek.

Wait until you see the garage!

 

[motai]

The math guy is a real GEEK! This can't possibly be good for how people view math. They're still making it sound all mysterious and impossible to understand if you aren't a geek.

Wait until you see the garage!

Okay, one of the characters just asked Charlie's father "How old was he when you realized that he was exceptional." He replied "Around 3 when he could multiply 4-digit numbers in his head."

Yup, math is impossible to everyone unless you are born with it . And if America thinks it is true, then it *is* true .

 

[Moonbear]

If I couldn't laugh at the math and perpetuation of stereotypes about mathematicians, this show would be truly awful! I wonder if it will even finish out the season before being cancelled?

Woo hoo...geek boy is playing minesweeper now!