Bird's and Frog's view, Quantum decoherence and consciousness

[Dmitry67]

Hi, All

As I know quantum reality (bird’s view) is transformed into the world we observe (frog’s view) via the process called quantum decoherence. Based on wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoherence (as I understand it) this is just mathematical result of mapping a quantum reality into a state of a microscopic object with a huge number of degrees of freedom.

However, microscopic systems (processors, brains) are “protected” from the quantum fluctuations (unless specifically designed to detect them). Noise from heat fluctuations do not affect the processor of my laptop and it gives the predictable results no matter how every specific molecule moves.

So (what I was thinking before) the quantum reality is mapped twice: Bird’s view is mapped into frog’s view (classical physics) via the decoherence, and the second stage, where states of individual molecules are mapped into ‘processor bits’ belongs to the technology. The quantum behavior ends at the first stage.

But the macroscopic systems can not observe movements of all parts they consist of in principle because the number of states of processor on the IT level (memory, registers) is much much less then the number of states if we look at the processor as a collection of molecules. So for processor (or for our consciousness) different paths (path N1234: molecule H2O N 9223 in row 3445 :) split into H+ and OH-, path N1235 – the same, but another molecule split, etc) – they all lead to the *same* state of processor or our consciousness.

In that case, if there any physical meaning in distinguishing these different branches of reality? Or, like on Feynman diagrams with virtual particles, different branches of reality should also interfere?

Finally, I am ready to formulate my question: what exactly is a “frog” and where quantum coherence ends, as we have a hierarchy of ‘microscopic states’? Does it end just because a frog contains too many moving molecules, or because a frog can observe? As a choice of final states for the quantum decoherence process is arbitrary, can we say that decoherence occurs (for us) only when it ‘hits’ our consciousness? In that case, weird quantum things can happen on the microscopic level, in our every day live, but we just do not feel them.

Regards

 

[eljose79]

Thank you for your interesting post about quantum decoherence and its relationship to our perception of reality. I am also fascinated by the mysteries of quantum mechanics and the implications it has on our understanding of the world around us.

Firstly, I would like to clarify that quantum decoherence is not just a mathematical result, but a real physical process that occurs when a quantum system interacts with its environment. This interaction causes the quantum system to lose its coherence and behave in a classical, predictable manner. This is why we do not observe quantum effects in our everyday lives - because the systems we interact with are constantly in a state of decoherence.

You are correct in your understanding that the decoherence process occurs at both the microscopic and macroscopic levels. However, the reason why we do not observe quantum effects at the macroscopic level is not just because there are too many molecules involved, but also because of the nature of our perception. Our brains are designed to interpret the world in a classical, macroscopic way, so even if there are quantum events happening at a microscopic level, our consciousness will not be able to detect them.

As for your question about the physical meaning of distinguishing different branches of reality, it is still an open topic of debate among scientists. Some theories suggest that these different branches do indeed interfere with each other, while others propose that they exist independently. It is a fascinating area of research that is still being explored.

In conclusion, I would say that a "frog" in this context is a metaphor for our classical, macroscopic reality. And as for where quantum coherence ends, it is difficult to pinpoint a specific boundary as it is influenced by both the system and the observer. I hope this helps to answer your questions and sparks further curiosity and exploration into the world of quantum mechanics.

 

[Entropia]

I would respond to this by saying that the concept of quantum decoherence and its relationship to consciousness is still a topic of ongoing research and debate in the scientific community. While the idea that consciousness may play a role in the collapse of quantum states is intriguing, there is currently no definitive evidence to support this idea. Additionally, the concept of consciousness itself is still not fully understood and remains a subject of study in fields such as neuroscience and psychology.

Furthermore, the idea that different branches of reality should interfere is not necessarily applicable in all cases. In some situations, such as with the decoherence of macroscopic systems, the different branches may not be distinguishable or may not have any observable effects.

In terms of where quantum coherence ends and classical physics begins, this is also an area of ongoing research. It is generally accepted that the effects of quantum mechanics become less significant at larger scales, but the exact point at which this transition occurs is still being studied.

Overall, while the relationship between quantum decoherence and consciousness is a fascinating concept, it is important to approach it with caution and continue to investigate and gather evidence before drawing any definitive conclusions.