Lagrangian Definition and 1000 Threads

  1. K

    What Are the Cartesian Coordinates of a Rotating Pendulum?

    Homework Statement [/B] Find the Cartesian coordinates (x, y, z) of a fixed reference frame expressed in terms of the coordinates (x', y' , z) of a rotating frame, which rotates with the horizontal rod HR. Choose the x' -axis to point along the horizontal rod in the direction OA. Use this to...
  2. R

    Derivatives of the Lagrangian in curved space

    Follow along at http://star-www.st-and.ac.uk/~hz4/gr/GRlec4+5+6.pdf and go to PDF page 9 or page 44 of the "slides." I'm trying to see how to go from the first to the third line. If we write the free particle Lagrangian and use q^i-dot and q^j-dot as the velocities and metric g_ij, how is it we...
  3. P

    Lagrangian of a 2 mass rotating rod

    Homework Statement A long light inflexible rod is free to rotate in a vertical plane about a fixed point O. A particle of mass m is fixed to the rod at a point P a distance ℓ from O. A second particle of mass m is free to move along the rod, and is attracted to the point O by an elastic force...
  4. Coffee_

    Generating function and Lagrangian invariance

    To make my explanation easier open the ''Generating function approach'' section on this wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_transformation The function ##\frac{dG}{dt}## represents the function that always can be added to the Lagrangian without changing the mechanical...
  5. Jimster41

    Is the concept of entropy addressed in the Lagrangian formalism?

    just working my way through Susskind's "Theoretical Minimum". At the Langrangian formalism I'm in novel territory so this may be a dumb question. Kind of multiple choice or fill in a real answer. Why is there no term for the Entropy of a system in the Lagrangian? Is it because time is an...
  6. P

    Degrees of Freedom for a Lagrangian System

    Homework Statement A long light inflexible rod is free to rotate in a vertical plane about a fixed point O. A particle of mass m is fixed to the rod at a point P a distance l from O. A second particle of mass m is free to move along the rod, and is attracted to the point O by an elastic force...
  7. R

    What Are the Equilibrium Points of a Pendulum System with an Elastic Force?

    Homework Statement A long light inflexible rod is free to rotate in a vertical plane about a fixed point O. A particle of mass m is fixed to the rod at a point P a distance ℓ from O. A second particle of mass m is free to move along the rod, and is attracted to the point O by an elastic force...
  8. resurgance2001

    Derivation of standard model lagrangian

    What's the simplest, most direct way to derive the lagrangian of the SM? I saw earlier today: L[S M] = L[Dirac] + L[mass] + L[Gauge] + L[Gauge/psi] That seems like a good starting point. I like it because it says the SM Lagrangian is simply the sum of four lagrangians. The next step...
  9. T

    Lagrangian for released double pendulum

    I just recently worked through the lagrangian method for describing the motion of a double pendulum. What I want to do now is describe the motion of a double pendulum that has been instantaneously released from the origin and allowed to fly through the air (with the 2 pendulums still connected...
  10. Ahmad Kishki

    Classical Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics

    Recommend an easy going introduction to lagrangian and hamiltonian mechanics (for self study)
  11. lalo_u

    Gauge invariance of electroweak Lagrangian

    I was trying to prove all those little things you spend long as the local invariance in the free Lagrangian of electroweak interaction. Taking into account the appropriate SU(2) transformations (without covariant derivatives), came to the following expression \mathcal{L}_{\text{ferm.}} =...
  12. C

    Lagrangian function for beetle on paper

    Homework Statement [/B] A circle of radius ##a##, with diameter ##AB##, is drawn on a sheet of paper which lies on a smooth horizontal table. The paper is pivoted with a pin at ##A## and has moment of inertia ##4ma^2## about a vertical axis through ##A##. An insect of mass ##m## walks around...
  13. D

    How to understand potential energy in Lagrangian

    Hi guys, So I'm trying to understand why the potential energy of a Lagrangian is the way it is. The system I'm considering is a closed necklace of N beads, each of mass m. Each bead interacts only with its nearest neighbour. First let me make some comments: 1) Each bead is labeled with a...
  14. D

    Why does field Lagrangian depend on four-derivative?

    Hi guys, so this is a pretty generic question. Starting off with the classical Lagrangian in a case where there is no interaction or explicit time dependence, the functional form is L=L(x,\dot{x})=L(x,\partial_{t}x). Now when we look at the Lagrangian density in field theory, the functional...
  15. C

    Understanding the set up of a lagrangian problem

    Homework Statement A rod of length ##L## and mass ##M## is constrained to move in a vertical plane. The upper end of the rod slides freely along a horizontal wire. Let ##x## be the distance of the upper end of the rod from a fixed point, and let ##\theta## be the angle between the rod and the...
  16. ChrisVer

    Why are particles in low representations in the Standard Model?

    I was wondering. What's the reason for putting objects in low representations in the SM and not higher ones? So, why fermions in a doublet of SU(2) and not a multiplet? In analogy in SU(5) we put the particles in the 5-plet...
  17. N

    What is the full Lagrangian of SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) model?

    What is the full Lagrangian of Standard Model?How can we build a Lagrangian that satisfies both the symmetry SU(3) and the symmetry SU(2) at the same time?
  18. N

    Replacing Lagrangian L with function f(L) for free particle

    Homework Statement [/B] If L is Lagrangian for a (system of) free particle(s) and dL/dt=0, show that any twice differentiable function f(L) gives the same equations of motions. Homework Equations [/B] Euler-Lagrange equations.The Attempt at a Solution Well, after some calculation, I get...
  19. A

    Time ordering operator, interaction Lagrangian, QED

    Homework Statement I am trying to calculate the following quantity: $$<0|T\{\phi^\dagger(x_1) \phi(x_2) exp[i\int{L_1(x)dx}]\}|0>$$ where: $$ L_1(x) = -ieA_{\mu}[\phi^* (\partial_\mu \phi ) - (\partial_\mu \phi^*)\phi] $$[/B] I am trying to find an expression including the propagators...
  20. MaxwellsHammer

    Question on the Inherent Instability of Lagrangian points

    The question revokes around my personal hypothesis that there is two forces connected with the Gravitational Field one obviously attraction between two bodies that is linear and the second is a less powerful repulsive force that emanates in a spiral motion off of rotating bodies that causes the...
  21. A

    Does the Lagrangian of a mattress in QFT make sense?

    Just started with QFT from Zee and am already confused by first equation lol. See attached picture. Does anyone actually understand this? He calls q_a the vertical displacement of particle 'a', and yet he only allows the springs to be horizontally between the particles. So, there should be...
  22. E

    Euler-Lagrange equation (EOM) solutions - hairy lagrangian

    I'm going through Zwiebach Chapter 6 on relativistic strings to try to solve a similar problem. I got all the way to my equation of motion \begin{eqnarray*} \delta S & = & [ p' \delta \theta]_{z 0}^{z 1} + \int_{z 0}^{z 1} d z \left( p - \frac{\partial ( p')}{\partial z} \right) \delta...
  23. C

    Lagrangian is invariant under the transformation

    I should mention that I'm self-studying this material, not taking it as part of a course, but since this is still a homework-style problem I figured it'd be best to post here. Homework Statement In Peskin and Schroeder problem #11.2, they ask us to consider the Lagrangian: $$\mathcal{L} =...
  24. P

    Maxwell Lagrangian at weak fields

    In http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9506035 the author said after writing this equation: $$\frac{1}{4}\eta^{\mu\nu\lambda\rho} F_{\mu\nu}F_{\lambda\rho} = \eta_{\sigma\tau\alpha\beta}\frac{\partial L}{\partial F_{\sigma\tau}} \frac{\partial L}{\partial F_{\alpha\beta} } + 2C$$ where C was arbitrary...
  25. Glomerular

    Lagrangian - rigid body problem

    Homework Statement In a uniform gravitational field, there is a uniform solid disk of of mass M and radius R. A point mass m is glued to the disk at a point that is at a distance a from the center of the disk. The disk rolls without slipping. Find the frequency of small oscillations about the...
  26. P

    Three level Feynman diagramas lagrangian density

    Hi, I am trying to figure out how to draw all the three level Feynman diagrams corresponding to this lagrangian density L = \frac{1}{2} \partial _{\mu} \phi \partial^{\mu} \phi - \frac{\mu^2}{2}\phi^2- \frac{\eta}{3!}\phi^3-\frac{\lambda}{4!} \phi^4+i \bar{\psi} \gamma _{\mu} \partial^{\mu}...
  27. D

    A question on Lagrangian dynamics

    Hi all, I've recently been asked for an explanation as to why the Lagrangian is a function of the positions and velocities of the particles constituting a physical system. What follows is my attempt to answer this question. I would be grateful if you could offer your thoughts on whether this is...
  28. S

    Lagrangian mechanics: sphere inside a cylinder

    The problem goes by this: A sphere of radius ##\rho## is constrained to roll without slipping on the lower half of the inner surface of a hollow cylinder of inside radius R. Determine the Lagrangian function, the equation of constraint, and Lagrange's equations of motion. Find the frequency of...
  29. D

    Derivative of first term in Lagrangian density for real K-G theory

    Hey guys, This is really confusing me cos its allowing me to create factors of 2 from nowhere! Basically, the first term in the Lagrangian for a real Klein-Gordon theory is \frac{1}{2}(\partial_{\mu}\phi)(\partial^{\mu}\phi). Now let's say I wana differentiate this by applying the...
  30. D

    Showing that the real Klein-gordon lagrangian is Lorentz invariant

    Homework Statement Hey guys! So this question should be simple apparently but I got no idea how to do it. Basically I have the following Lagrangian density \mathcal{L}=\frac{1}{2}(\partial_{\mu}\phi)(\partial^{\mu}\phi)-\frac{m}{2}\phi^{2} which should be invariant under Lorentz...
  31. G

    Internal vector symmetry of Dirac Lagrangian

    Homework Statement Find the conserved Noether current j^\mu of the Dirac Lagrangian L = \bar{\psi} ( i \partial_\mu \gamma^\mu - m ) \psi under the transformation: \psi \rightarrow e^{i \alpha} \psi \,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\, \bar{\psi} \rightarrow e^{-i \alpha} \bar{\psi} Homework Equations...
  32. E

    Lagrangian problem of a cylinder on inclined plane and two springs

    Homework Statement A cylinder on a inclined plane is rolling without slipping. Inclined plane is connected to wall with a spring and cylinder is connected to wall with a spring too. All frictions will be neglected, and all the given data has shown on the image below. As seen above, k2 spring...
  33. C

    Find the Lagrangian of a System of Particles

    Homework Statement Ok, so in this system, there are two point particles of mass M connected by massless levers of length L. The pair of masses pivots about the upper point and rotates about the axis at an angular frequency ω. The lower mass is constrained to slide on the vertical axis. The...
  34. S

    What Is the Compact Group of Global Symmetry for This Lagrangian?

    Hi guys, have a very tricky question on my HW to find compact group of global symmetry to this Lagrangian of 2 complex scalar fields L={\partial_\mu \phi_1^*}{\partial_\mu \phi_1}+{\partial_\mu \phi_2^*}{\partial_\mu \phi_2}-\lambda(\phi_1^* \phi_1 - \phi_2^* \phi_2 - v^2)^2 and I can't figure...
  35. T

    MTW Ch7: Choosing Lagrangian for Scalar Potential

    I have managed to get to the end of Chapter 6 and have done almost all of the exercises (I didn't get anywhere with exercise 5.6 (d) and have seen the Cesarth/TSny exchange and still don't feel I have a satisfactory solution...) but I have hit a bit of a wall with Exercise 7.1 (a).First question...
  36. Breo

    Internal Symmetries (Prove Lagrangian is invariant)

    Homework Statement Note: There is an undertilde under every $$\phi$$ Imagine $$ \phi ^t M \phi $$ . M is a symmetric, real and positive matrix. Prove L is invariant: $$ \mathcal{L} = \phi ^t M \phi + \frac{1}{2} \partial_\mu \phi ^t \partial ^\mu \phi $$ Trick: Counting parameters. Homework...
  37. B

    MHB Lagrangian utility maximization with a ''complex'' summation

    Hello there! It's my first time posting here, I hope you guys will be good to me :). I took a one year break to study a language abroad, and now it seems like I forgot everything math-wise. I'm preparing for a test and I'm having a really hard time doing the following problem. I need to...
  38. E

    Gauge invariance of interaction lagrangian

    Anyone can help me how to argue that interaction lagrangian is invariant under gauge transformation?
  39. K

    Help -- Writing Lagrangian in different Representations

    Okay, so I am trying to understand on how to write Lagrangian in different representations. I know the formula of the SU(3) lagrangian in terms of the 3 and 3* rep. Now presume I have a model in the SU(3) 10 plet rep which includes exotic fermions not in the SM. How would I write out the...
  40. Alexandre

    How to derive lagrangian for any classical system?

    Suppose I come up with a system that has certain number of particles with certain masses and are interconnected between each other in a certain way and are acted by forces which are also part of the system. What's the general rule for finding potential and kinetic energies as functions of...
  41. R

    The Effective Lagrangian of the Electromagnetic Field

    hi to everyone L=T-V as you know it is the lagrangian equation the effective Lagrangian of the electromagnetic field is given by following relation in gaussian units. L=(1/8pi) (E^2-B^2) how is must calculate this relation? (the energy density of electromagnetic fields is given by u=(1/8pi)...
  42. Xenosum

    Symmetry Condition for Scaling a Lagrangian?

    Homework Statement Take the action S = \int d^4x \frac{1}{2} \left( \partial_{\mu}\phi(x)\partial^{\mu}\phi(x) - m^2\phi^2(x) - g\phi(x)^p \right) , and consider the following transformations: x^{\mu} \rightarrow x^{'\mu} = \lambda x^{\mu} \phi(x) \rightarrow \phi^{'}(x) =...
  43. KleZMeR

    Invariant quantities of a lagrangian?

    Given a basic Lagrangian, how would I determine invariant quantities? My hunch says it would be quantities that do not depend on position or time? Saying that, perhaps using the Lagrange equation to solve for equations of motion and along the way whatever terms disappear would be my invariant...
  44. C

    Variables in lagrangian vs hamiltonian dynamics

    In the lagrangian formalism, we treat the position ##q## and the velocity ##\dot q## as dependent variables and talk about configuration space, which is just the space of positions. In the hamiltonian formalism we talk about canonical positions and momenta, and we consider them independent. Is...
  45. ChrisVer

    Introduction of the connection in Lagrangian for complex scalar field

    I am having some problem with this attached question. I also attached my answer... My problem is the appearence of the term: 2 e (A \cdot \partial C) |\phi|^2 which shouldn't appear...but comes from cross terms of the: A \cdot A \rightarrow ( A + \partial C) \cdot (A + \partial C) In my...
  46. U

    Eulerian vs Lagrangian approach in fluid mechanics (wave example)

    Hi All, Recently we've been working on the distinction between the Eulerian and Lagrangian approaches in Fluid mechanics. I understand the simpler examples like a running stream of hot water etc. However one example is really tripping me up. So what's confusing me is that in analyzing...
  47. S

    Lagrangian Dynamics: Potential Energy formulation with spring and gra

    Hi, I have a conceptual question regarding Lagrangian dynamics. It has to do with the potential energy formulation. My instructor today mentioned something in class that does not make much sense to me. Here is he most basic example that illustrates my confusion: Take a simple 1dof...
  48. ShayanJ

    Lorentz invariance of Klein-Gordon Lagrangian

    I want to prove the invariance of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian \mathcal{L}=\frac 1 2 \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi-\frac 1 2 m^2 \phi^2 under a general Lorentz transformation \Lambda^\alpha_\beta but I don't know what should I do. I don't know how to handle it. How should I do it? Thanks
  49. J

    How to generalize Newtonian and Lagrangian mechanics

    If I stated a problem that you have to find the solution [0,\infty[\;\to\mathbb{R},\quad t\mapsto x(t) to the problem x(0) = x_0 < R \dot{x}(0) = v_0 > 0 m\ddot{x}(t) = -\partial_x U\big(x(t)\big),\quad\quad m>0 where R, v_0, m are some constants, and the function U has been defined...
  50. N

    Maximizing Symmetry in Lagrangian for a Particle in 3D Cylindrical Coordinates

    Homework Statement the question is that there is a particle in 3 spatial Euclidean dimensions in cylindrical coordinates. I want to find a symmetry for the lagrangian if the potential energy is function of r and k.theta+z V=V(r,k.theta+z) Homework Equations k is constant L=T-V...
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