9th Grader Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

[CJ Morin]

I thought at first the title said he brought a home made glock to school, and was about to question what the uproar was about.
Texans have a very special brand of stupidity. I don't think you'd find a story like this in other parts of the country.
There's nothing wrong with being an outspoken critic of Islam. I am an outspoken critic of Islam, and Christianity. The only problem is when you turn disdain for religion into prejudice against people.

I am sorry but this I take offense to. By making that statement that shows what kind of person you are. You are judging us by our geographical location and stating we are all stupid from Texas, kind of like the principal who had this kid arrested. Nice to know you are labeling people.

 

[anorlunda]

What new information?

The information that he was not a tinkerer. That he took an existing clock and made it look scary and put it in a pencil box. Those actions are consistent with a hoax bomb.

We can't see into the boys head. But we can't rule out a hoax intent either.

 

[mheslep]

Given the known facts, the suspicions regarding a bomb or a hoax bomb seem reasonable.

Not to the U.S. President.

 

[Rick21383]

It's amazing how many seemingly intelligent people have fallen for this nonsense hook, line, and sinker.

His father is most likely behind the whole charade and people are buying into it because that's what the liberal media is telling them to believe.

Let's look at the facts:

(1) Ahmed's dad is a Muslim rights activist.
(2) The "clock" is literally just a normal clock that's slightly disassembled, and for whatever reason placed in a shady looking suitcase. It's not an invention...it's just an opened clock in a suitcase.
(3) Ahmed shows his first teacher the clock, who says that he probably should leave it in his locker for the day because it looks kind of suspicious.
(4) Ahmed ignores the first teacher's warning and proceeds to parade it around for the day, then plug it in so it makes odd sounds to get even more attention.
(5) Ahmed doesn't know anything about electronics.
(6) When asked about the clock Ahmed was not forthcoming
(7) his sister got in trouble with the school for allegedly making terrorist threats and apparently has been running the social media show

Oh what a whiz kid!

 

[nsaspook]

The information that he was not a tinkerer. That he took an existing clock and made it look scary and put it in a pencil box. Those actions are consistent with a hoax bomb.

We can't see into the boys head. But we can't rule out a hoax intent either.

Yes, he was a tinkerer or did you fail to look at the photo of his bedroom with the little sister filled with boxes of parts and wires on a desk with missing drawers or read where people have said he's been taking stuff like this to school for a long time but the 'new' teacher didn't know about it.

Was he an electrical engineer or technican at 14? No he wasn't. Is he on the way to being one, Yes.

How smart he actually is has little bearing on the facts of the case before the media hype of him being the next Richard Feynman.

 

[nsaspook]

Not to the U.S. President.

Or to the police once they actually investigated the incident that I'm sure at least one of the Presidents advisers have read before the U.S. President made a statement about it.

 

[Blank_Stare]

I apologize in advance if some of this has already been discussed - I don't have time to read all the posts in this HUGE thread.

The kid is high school age, so he is surely aware of the "bias" that many look at his culture/religion with. If he isn't making decisions about his actions, based on how he will be perceived, then he is going to have some hard lessons to learn in life. You can bet he has felt the sting of prejudice on more than one occasion. (I am not saying that life SHOULD work like that, I am just observing that it DOES work like that.) And, unless he has lived in a vacuum his entire life, he has seen what Hollywood thinks a suitcase bomb looks like. Even if he hasn't, you can be sure his parents have. Having said that, I don't think that his culture or religion should even be a part of this discussion, at least as far as what decisions we, as a society make, in situations such as these.

I have looked at the pictures. I should think that taking something to school that looks like a suitcase bomb should be thought of, and handled the same way as taking something to school that looks like an assault rifle. Around here, that's suspension, or expulsion from school. Aside from the fact that I didn't see any of the typical hollywood blocks of explosives, there was indeed a striking resemblence to what we see on television, and in the movies, as a portable bomb.

A few years ago, an elementary school girl got in trouble because she took TicTac's to school, and was telling her classmates that they were "smart pills". The zero-tolerance drug policy of her school system got her suspended, at least until the school board reveiwed the case. I think she was second or third grade.

Suitcase clock that looks like a bomb
Plastic replica of an assault rifle
Faux drugs

I don't see any difference in the way the cases were, or should be handled. Let me clarify that - I am not saying that they were handled CORRECTLY, I am saying that whatever policy is adopted, they should all three be handled under the same policy. (Even if the student is not outwardly SAYING that what they have is what it is being perceived as.) I won't pretend to have the wisdom to decide what is the best policy for any school system, but I do think that handling them with the same set of rules, once established, is the only wise course of action. Perhaps we should add stage props that look like swords and knives, outside of the drama department.

Ultimately, it is about what was going on in the kid's head when he made it, and then decided to take it to school. I for one, can not believe that he didn't even consider the possibility that someone would misconstrue what his device was for. Furthermore, even if we give the kid a pass, his parents have no excuse. The closest they have for an excuse is that they were ignorant of his project, and / or that he took it to school. In which case I would have to say they are doing a poor job of parenting.

This is not, and has never been about anyone's culture or religion. It's about poor judgement. Blame the kid, or blame the parents - one or all of them had to have known better. Or blame the parents for not providing proper guidance to the son. Blameless are the school, police, or government officials that may have been involved in detaining or arresting him. (Unless he was treated poorly, that is to say handled roughly, in a physical sense - no excuse for that...) Blameless is a society that has become afraid for it's safety, in a world where kids take weapons to school, and kill each other, regardless of their ethnic/cultural/religious background. The fact that THIS kid happens to be muslim is irrelevant - what religious affiliation (if any) did the assassins at Columbine have?

So what's the big deal?

Well, elections are around the corner. Politicians want to make a big deal out of molehills, to gain attention, and recognition. Bending over backwards to exonerate a youth who is a member of a culture/religion that has been getting a bloody nose lately is a cheap way for those politicians to score points with voters. I know, I know, Obama can't run again - but Hilary jumped on the band wagon very quickly, didn't she? I am betting members of the "other" party did too, although I stopped paying attention to the news articles, fairly early on in the newscycle.

In my opinion, this case should not even have been news-worthy...beyond that high school's in-house news paper.

If I were a conpiracy theorist, I would say that non-news like this is put out there to distract us from the important things that we should be worrying about.

So let's get back to important news - STEM scores, the economy, the environment, scientific research, world peace - you name it.

Blank_Stare

 

[nsaspook]

In my opinion, this case should not even have been news-worthy...beyond that high school's in-house news paper.

If I were a conpiracy theorist, I would say that non-news like this is put out there to distract us from the important things that we should be worrying about.

So let's get back to important news - STEM scores, the economy, the environment, scientific research, world peace - you name it.

Blank_Stare

This case is news-worthy but it's not because of things like Politicians using it for their own means, that's the circus side show. It's news-worthy to me because a lot of us have been around for a while and remember the world before PC, zero-tolerance and being afraid of your own shadow. It makes me wonder at what point will we stop the slow evaporation of reason and the ability to make sane decisions in these types of cases. If others are doing the same thing then the story is very news-worthy.

 

[Ben Niehoff]

I wonder if maybe the 80's era clock he scavenged the parts from was somehow not working. If he replaced some burnt-out components and re-soldered some leads, I wouldn't blame him for describing that as "building" a clock. As for why he mounted it in a pencil box, maybe he wanted to, and thought it would look cool that way. When I was around 14, I liked the idea of electronic devices looking like something else.

My guess is, his dad had this old clock which was either broken or about to be thrown out, and he came up with the idea to repurpose it in a fancy new case. The real question is why he didn't mount the buttons on the outside of the case, and perhaps the answer is he just wasn't finished with his project yet, and was just excited to show his progress to his teacher.

I'm not sure why we have to assume the worst of his intentions.

 

[mheslep]

Or to the police once they actually investigated the incident that I'm sure at least one of the Presidents advisers have read before the U.S. President made a statement about it.

One would hope so, but President "the police acted stupidly" Obama has a specific history of not making himself fully informed on local police matters before making conclusions.

 

[nsaspook]

One would hope so, but President "the police acted stupidly" Obama has a specific history of not making himself fully informed on local police matters before making conclusions.

Yes, he has history but he's on the side that just happens to be the truth of the matter unless you believe in a conspiracy theory of deliberate, predetermined malice. I don't fault the police for the arrest (if it was the offical policy when called about a bomb threat) or even asking him questions that he was not required to answer.

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

Which is exactly what zero tolerance does. The price you pay is that you start suspending kids for half-eaten pop-tarts.

Zero tolerance is a rule based system which like all rule based systems will fail when it meets a complex world. Further people will start gaming the system rather than living their lives. Sad.

I was arguing for something we used to call "goodwill". Another term I remember pre-9-11 was "presumption of innocence".

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

Why should it?

I've seen the junk pencil box and I've seen the junk clock. Together it looked like a junk clock in a junk pencil box that IMO the idea that it might get him in trouble or cause trouble never crossed his mind. So yes, he wanted attention as in the attention of his STEM teacher and he has said many times that he wanted to impress his teacher.

My opinion is the opposite. He built something that looked vaguely like a bomb. He's Islamic so he knows what prejudice is. IMO he was tweaking the authorities nose -- and doing a brilliant job of it.

Authorities need their nose tweaked on occasion. At some point hysteria needs to stop.

 

[mheslep]

just happens to be the truth of the matter

What is the truth of this particular matter that warrants the President's invitation, but not for the actions of many other kids who were unfairly suspended for the like of eating gun shaped pastries?

 

[nsaspook]

What is the truth of this particular matter that warrants the President's invitation, but not for the actions of many other kids who were unfairly suspended for the like of eating gun shaped pastries?

It matches his and others political agendas, guns and most of the other things do not.

 

[russ_watters]

It matches his and others political agendas, guns and most of the other things do not.

I'd really like to hear some elaboration on that too, because I didn't think we were all that far apart and I don't see how the current swing of the political pendulum could possibly equate to "truth".

Most of us, including you, seem to agree that problem #1 is the PC, zero-tolerance, no responsibility culture that caused the school administrators to act. Beyond that, the only thing I see unique about this case is the fact that the student is Muslim and therefore the media and POTUS (based on the political pendulum's swing) care to make that an issue, when there otherwise appears to be no basis to. There are a number of other cases that have been similar (cited already) that haven't piqued quite as much interest because they lack that specific element. So it seems to me that beyond the school's poorly executed zero tolerance policy (which is typical today and therefore not all that newsworthy), we have a perfect storm of PC list crossfire:

Defend List:
Muslims

Attack List:
Texans
Police

The bottom line for me is that he was released the same day by the Police in the state of Texas in a city that's known for not being nice to people who are 'different'.

Right: so by the outcome, we can say that the police, in Texas appear to have acted properly. But they can be attacked anyway because they're on that list.

Not quite on topic:

The problem with talking to the police is that you put yourself in legal jeoparty for anything you say even if you think it's innocent.

If you are guilty of something, "keep your mouth shut" is solid advice because there are pretty much only good things that can come from being silent and only bad things that can come from opening-up. But when you haven't done anything wrong, there are potential goods and bads that can come from not talking. That's why it's a catch-22 and why IMO the advice to say nothing is overly simplistic. Indeed, some questions or searches are themselves illegal to refuse.

The gamble is that:
1. If you answer the questions honestly and openly (cooperatively), you might get on their good side, but if they hear something they don't like, they might hold you to investigate further.
2. If you are silent/evasive, they may not have any evidence with which to hold you, but they also might be suspicious of your attitude, which can cause deeper investigation.

Me, personally, I'd rather get in trouble for honesty than for evasiveness because honesty is always defensible in and of itself while evasiveness is always not defensible in and of itself (by that, I mean separate from the crime or lack thereof). Ie:
1. I didn't do anything wrong and was open and honest.
2. I didn't do anything wrong...except be evasive/mute.

In any particular instance it is a coin flip which might work better, but with evasiveness there is always an open question the police want answered and therefore no inherent end point to the investigation.

And another somewhat tangential issue...old, now:

Actually, we have long since disposed of this position. "Just following orders" is not a defense. One hopes that a public official will refuse to do things he or she believes to be evil even if their job requires it. And in the case you refer to, there is a reasonable mechanism that the local government can recall the official if they find this refusal unacceptable.

No, that's not what "just following orders" is about, unless you actually live in Nazi Germany and even then it wouldn't work as a defense for breaking a law. As the others said, the requirement is that you follow the law, with the assumption being that the law follows the morality. If people were entitled to follow their religious beliefs instead of the law, the oaths of office people take would be meaningless and laws would be unenforceable. That was an easy case for the courts and the outcome was predictable: indeed, I found it breathtaking that her lawyer would even attempt to use the argument that she was entitled to follow her religious beliefs (thereby acknowledging she didn't respect the authority of the law or courts).

 

[gfd43tg]

It was pretty obvious when the President got involved that this was a hoax bomb and the POTUS used it to advance his political agenda

 

[OmCheeto]

It was pretty obvious when the President got involved that this was a hoax bomb and the POTUS used it to advance his political agenda

I think the advancement of science is a great political agenda.

 

[gfd43tg]

I think the advancement of science is a great political agenda.

Except that is not his agenda. Did you see a picture of the "clock"?

 

[OmCheeto]

Except that is not his agenda. Did you see a picture of the "clock"?

Good grief! I'm right in the middle of writing up something on "the clock". Give me a second here.

[edit, which follows my post below, as you've just given me an idea]

I would imagine that most every "suitcase bomb" is battery powered.
Can you imagine a terrorist asking someone where the nearest electrical outlet is, so he can blow everyone up?

 

[OmCheeto]

I'm still waiting for a statement from the engineering teacher...

On closer examination of the photo of the clock, I'm afraid that as a trained naval electrical safety inspector, the clock, in its current form, no longer passes my inspection, and I would confiscate it, as the clock is a hazard, even sans explosives, to both Ahmed and anyone who might come in contact with it.

In particular, he's replaced the all plastic original case, with a metal trimmed case.
Not only that, the power cord exits the casing haphazardly between the two halves of of the box, being compressively held in place, with metal edges!*
I believe this is why the case was closed with wire, vs the installed latch, as the case would not properly close in its current configuration.

​

One other question, for the electro-nerds here at the forum.
All of the projects I worked on in high school, never had a line voltage source. Everything was battery powered.
This is was just my experience. They only offered one year of electronics at my high school, so it's possible that other schools did otherwise.
Anyone remember building a line voltage source project in high school?

--------------------
*I think I've identified the model of pencil box. $12.95 at Amazon.com:

• Great for school supplies or small valuables like cash, iPod, etc.
• Mesh pocket and elastic pencil band inside for organization
• Sturdy key lock on the outside for security
• Chrome-steel corners for strength

 

[OmCheeto]

Doh! Someone, (@edward?) apparently deleted their post.

I found it somewhat entertaining.
Specifically, from my immediate, thank god I still have a smidgeon of short term memory left, recollection; "Americans are only familiar with Hollywood bombs, with wires and stuff hanging out..."

From my earlier reference to what the USPS says: "what does a bomb look like" post:

It say; "Protruding wires"

Ahmed's box, had "protruding wires".

 

[edward]

Sorry Om I was in the middle of an extensive edit and the "blasted" door bell rang

The supposed hoax bomb does look somewhat like Americans have seen in the movies where the hero cuts the right wire in the nick of time. Did the kid know what Americans think a bomb looks like? A current terrorist bomb would most likely have a cell phone in the box with a wire leading out of it. Should we update what people should be be looking for?

Just sitting the box in a hallway with a wire sticking out would have been a better hoax.

 

[OmCheeto]

The supposed hoax bomb does look somewhat like Americans have seen in the movies where the hero cuts the right wire in the nick of time. Did the kid know what Americans think a bomb looks like? A current terrorist bomb would most likely have a cell phone in the box with a wire leading out of it. Should we update what people should be be looking for?

Just sitting the box in a hallway with a wire sticking out would have been a better hoax.

That might have gotten him shot. But, as has been pointed out, Ahmed seems to be smarter than that.

All in all, he strikes me as a typical 14 year old nerd, who got caught up in a whirlwind of hypermedia, from a, from his standpoint, simple prank.

 

[nsaspook]

My personal theory of what 'really' happened here is the classic case of a 14yo boy with a nice young 'new' teacher he took a 'liking' to. He's said repeatedly and forcefully the reason for the project was to impress his 'teacher'. Maybe someone just got a little uncomfortable with the attention and had no idea about the seriousness of reporting a possible 'bomb' to school management.

 

[nsaspook]

Not quite on topic:

If you are guilty of something, "keep your mouth shut" is solid advice because there are pretty much only good things that can come from being silent and only bad things that can come from opening-up. But when you haven't done anything wrong, there are potential goods and bads that can come from not talking. That's why it's a catch-22 and why IMO the advice to say nothing is overly simplistic. Indeed, some questions or searches are themselves illegal to refuse.

The gamble is that:
1. If you answer the questions honestly and openly (cooperatively), you might get on their good side, but if they hear something they don't like, they might hold you to investigate further.
2. If you are silent/evasive, they may not have any evidence with which to hold you, but they also might be suspicious of your attitude, which can cause deeper investigation.

If it's a minor offense like a traffic ticket, sure being open and honest is one possible strategy but when the police are asking and implying by using leading questions on a crime they are not lawyers and can lie to you with immunity with something like 'you built a hoax bomb' or you could be charged with a felony that could be on your arrest record for life and affect every aspect of your life IMO being silent (exercising your rights is not being evasive) until you have legal advice in a legal setting is IMO a wise thing to do. If there is evidence of a crime they won't need you to say a thing and if no evidence of a crime exists then you saying it doesn't won't matter. I think this protects you and the police.

 

[lisab]

Sorry Om I was in the middle of an extensive edit and the "blasted" door bell rang

Hit the deck!

 

[OmCheeto]

Hit the deck!

Oh. Now I get it.

ps. @edward , if it's any consolation, I deleted a huge mathy type post yesterday, moments after I discovered that my maths was a bit out of whack.

 

[OmCheeto]

If it's a minor offense...]

Exactly! Ahmed is a minor!

Sorry about the play on words, but as a notaparent, I have no sympathy for them. Minors are evil. Look at their crime rate!

The only reason 5 year olds are not on the graph, is because they are too adorable, when they're STEALING!

 

[nsaspook]

Exactly! Ahmed is a minor!

Sorry about the play on words, but as a notaparent, I have no sympathy for them. Minors are evil. Look at their crime rate!

The only reason 5 year olds are not on the graph, is because they are too adorable, when they're STEALING!

That graph is for Property Crime, after 15 they graduate to Grand Theft Auto.
A minor that could be have been charged with a major.

 

[nsaspook]

I love America, winning the hearts and minds of possible 'Hoax bombers' with electronic goodies.
http://static1.techinsider.io/image/560022e2bd86ef13008bbcfb-730-487/10.jpg
What a haul!

 

[JorisL]

Time to build myself a clock.

Or do you guys think that wouldn't work for a 24 year old physics student?

 

[WWGD]

Time to build myself a clock.

Or do you guys think that wouldn't work for a 24 year old physics student?

Depends on a few things : your looks relative the generality of the population, the general level of science education in your country, etc.

 

[nsaspook]

Breaking News: What was inside the previous box the kid made.

Spoiler

 

[DavidSnider]

Breaking News: What was inside the previous box the kid made.

Spoiler

WOW.
It wasn't a clock at all.. It was Marsellus Wallace's soul.