About to take out my first loan for college

[ice109]

I think our differences essentially come down to different "upbringings".

I believe that I cannot really depend on anyone but myself, and when it really comes to hard times, I have to look to myself to struggle through them.

you're better off than the other dude trust me. wait till he has to deal with something severe and no can help him. i bet his sanctimonious head will explode

 

[Cyrus]

you're better off than the other dude trust me. wait till he has to deal with something severe and no can help him. i bet his sanctimonious head will explode

So now no one can help me? Where did this assumption come from, your ass? I don't spend money like it grows on trees, so I don't put myself in a "severe" situation to begin with. I saved my money for 4 years through college while working a high paying job. If you have a brain, get good grades, get a scholarship, get a good paying job/internships, get into grad school, and get out debt free. Its THAT simple.

Otherwise, stop your waaa-waaa-waaa and work at McDonalds.

 

[ranger]

you're better off than the other dude trust me. wait till he has to deal with something severe and no can help him. i bet his sanctimonious head will explode

You're words are rather harsh and is purely out of context with cyrusabdollahi's response.

 

[ice109]

You're words are rather harsh and is purely out of context with cyrusabdollahi's response.

maybe sanctimonious isn't the right word but i read the entire thread and on several occassions he's been very insulting and presumptive.

So now no one can help me? Where did this assumption come from, your ass? I don't spend money like it grows on trees, so I don't put myself in a "severe" situation to begin with. I saved my money for 4 years through college while working a high paying job. If you have a brain, get good grades, get a scholarship, get a good paying job/internships, get into grad school, and get out debt free. Its THAT simple.

Otherwise, stop your waaa-waaa-waaa and work at McDonalds.

at some point you will be unable to call for help and what are you going to do then? though you were insulting and i was likewise all i meant was that someone who has is comfortable with dealing with hardship will be better off than you in a hard situation.

don't bolster your own ego by presuming to be unique in your intelligence.your financial success is probably largely due to assistance. a lot of people are very smart and very hard working and are not able to eave college debt free because they are poor. honestly what can you say about something you haven't done.

edit

you're not special , you're lucky. if you think that's not fitting then consider the tons of people who have achieved way more than you with way less and don't presume themselves to be special.

 

[Cyrus]

at some point you will be unable to call for help and what are you going to do then? though you were insulting and i was likewise all i meant was that someone who has is comfortable with dealing with hardship will be better off than you in a hard situation.

Who said I "call for help"?? I never said anything insluting to you ice.

don't bolster your own ego by presuming to be unique in your intelligence.your financial success is probably largely due to assistance. a lot of people are very smart and very hard working and are not able to eave college debt free because they are poor. honestly what can you say about something you haven't done.

When did I ever say anything about bolstering my intellegence?

you're not special , you're lucky. if you think that's not fitting then consider the tons of people who have achieved way more than you with way less and don't presume themselves to be special.

Did I say I was special?


You need to grow up. You're response is quite pathetic. You can ignore what I told you, that's fine by me. Like InbredDummy said, I know someone on scholarship that was getting paid to attend school from scholarships. But hey, continue to ignore what I said.


Go buy a box of tissues... and give me a large order of fries.

 

[ice109]

Who said I "call for help"?? I never said anything insluting to you ice.
When did I ever say anything about bolstering my intellegence?
Did I say I was special?You need to grow up. You're response is quite pathetic. You can ignore what I told you, that's fine by me. Like InbredDummy said, I know someone on scholarship that was getting paid to attend school from scholarships. But hey, continue to ignore what I said.Go buy a box of tissues... and give me a large order of fries.

there are several examples of you being insulting, i don't need to cite them. i said bolster your ego not your intelligence. all of your posts are narcissistic. I'm not ignoring anything you've said cause all you've said is some people do this and some people do that blah blah blah and hence it should quite simple for everyone to do it. and that last comment, that was just you being friendly right.

edit

you remind me of that guy from good will hunting, "you'll be serving fries to my kids..."

 

[Cyrus]

Ok, ignore what I told you. Dont get good grades, Dont apply for a scholarship, do live in a dorm if money is an issue and you can commute instead.

that was just you being friendly right

No, that was me not liking you. Yeah, I gave you examples of "some people that do this", by "this", I said get paid to attend school. But if you want to put your fingers in your ears and ignore me, you can try sticking them up your you know what.

 

[cristo]

I am middle eastern. In the middle east, you're parents don't kick you out of the house. This is a western thing I have noticed. Asians live at home, my greek friends live at home, all my ME friends live at home. None of their parents would dare dream of kicking their kids out the home. Living at home is very common among these cultures because they are centered around the family.

What kind of family values do you have to kick your kids outside your house as soon as possible or charge them rent?

Ok... perhaps "kick out" was too strong a phrase-- obviously, as soon as you graduate, your parents aren't going to kick you out. On the other hand, if you're twenty something, and you've got yourself a job, or are in grad school, then the parents' job is pretty much done, and so it's about time to move out.

What you describe seems very self centered and not much of a caring family.

I'm not sure which part of my post you're referring to, or who's being self-centred. I can't see that the parents can be being self-centred, since, after all, they have brought you up for 18 or so years, and provided for you.

Its probably very hard to go anywhere in life when your family does not do things together to better the whole.

Now, I never said that family don't support each other-- obviously, if something happens like you lose your job, then parents will be there to move back in with for a short while until you settle yourselves (c.f astronuc's post re the "internet bubble").

 

[ice109]

Now, I never said that family don't support each other-- obviously, if something happens like you lose your job, then parents will be there to move back in with for a short while until you settle yourselves (c.f astronuc's post re the "internet bubble").

is the expectation that if such a thing happens and one's parents aren't capable of doing this then one is expected to what? die?

 

[cristo]

is the expectation that if such a thing happens and one's parents aren't capable of doing this then one is expected to what? die?

Don't be stupid. Obviously if one's parent's aren't able to help, then one would find someone else to help, i.e. friends, or other family, unless they wanted to struggle through on their own. I'm just saying that, although I support the notion of parent's "kicking out" their kids at a given age, I never said that the parents kick their kids out and then forget about them. That's just wrong!

 

[Cyrus]

Ok... perhaps "kick out" was too strong a phrase-- obviously, as soon as you graduate, your parents aren't going to kick you out. On the other hand, if you're twenty something, and you've got yourself a job, or are in grad school, then the parents' job is pretty much done, and so it's about time to move out.

I know you did not mean "kicked-out", but there are people whose parents will literally "kick out" their kids once they turn 18. Its sad.

I'm not sure which part of my post you're referring to, or who's being self-centred. I can't see that the parents can be being self-centred, since, after all, they have brought you up for 18 or so years, and provided for you.

Your parents job is not to just bring you up and toss you out. Again, this is probably a cultural difference, but many countries around the world is it quite normal to live with your parents and take care of them. These, IMO are much better cultural values than "ok, your 23 and have a job, now get out". When I have kids, they are not going to pay a dime for their education, and I won't kick them out the house once they graduate. I mean, let's be real here. Once you graduate, your not a kid anymore. You go to work, come home and eat dinner, and go out at night. Are you really at home all that often anyways? Its not like your 5 years old and your parents have to babysit you constantly.

Now, I never said that family don't support each other-- obviously, if something happens like you lose your job, then parents will be there to move back in with for a short while until you settle yourselves (c.f astronuc's post re the "internet bubble").

I know you didnt mean that.

 

[ice109]

Don't be stupid. Obviously if one's parent's aren't able to help, then one would find someone else to help, i.e. friends, or other family, unless they wanted to struggle through on their own. I'm just saying that, although I support the notion of parent's "kicking out" their kids at a given age, I never said that the parents kick their kids out and then forget about them. That's just wrong!

i think that most people are completely unprepared to do just that

 

[cristo]

I know you did not mean "kicked-out", but there are people whose parents will literally "kick out" their kids once they turn 18. Its sad.

Tell me about it-- although the people I know who were in this situation became incredibly grown up, very quickly. Then again, there are the people whose parents allow them to live at home and sponge off them, without making an attempt to get a job. This is pretty sad, also.

Your parents job is not to just bring you up and toss you out. Again, this is probably a cultural difference, but many countries around the world is it quite normal to live with your parents and take care of them. These, IMO are much better cultural values than "ok, your 23 and have a job, now get out". When I have kids, they are not going to pay a dime for their education, and I won't kick them out the house once they graduate. I mean, let's be real here. Once you graduate, your not a kid anymore. You go to work, come home and eat dinner, and go out at night. Are you really at home all that often anyways? Its not like your 5 years old and your parents have to babysit you constantly.

It's true, but then again, I don't know many parents who'd really want their "kids" kicking around the house when they've grown up and got a job. However, equally so, I don't know that many people who would want to live with their parents when they've grown up and moved out; especially if they've already experienced life away from home. I imagine, as you said though, that this is a culture difference. It is admirable the people who stay at home to look after their parents. This is not all that common with the people that I know, but it is more common of one's parents moving back in with them, when getting more elderly, or needy.

I know you didnt mean that.

Good.

 

[cristo]

i think that most people are completely unprepared to do just that

And why would you think that? I would couple "struggling through on your own" with "getting help from friends," since the latter is a consequence of your life to that point (i.e. you don't get given friends when you're born). I disagree, from my experience of people, that one couldn't get through difficulties on one's own, or with friend's help. Obviously, we must know very different people.

 

[ice109]

And why would you think that? I would couple "struggling through on your own" with "getting help from friends," since the latter is a consequence of your life to that point (i.e. you don't get given friends when you're born). I disagree, from my experience of people, that one couldn't get through difficulties on one's own, or with friend's help. Obviously, we must know very different people.

i don't understand what you said? you think having friend's is part of struggling on your own? the point of my statement is the people aren't independent.

 

[cristo]

i don't understand what you said? you think having friend's is part of struggling on your own? the point of my statement is the people aren't independent.

Of course people aren't completely independent-- we are social creatures. But still, people can get through things without the help of their parents-- you seem to suggest that one needs one's parents for everything, or else one would not cope.

 

[ice109]

Of course people aren't completely independent-- we are social creatures. But still, people can get through things without the help of their parents-- you seem to suggest that one needs one's parents for everything, or else one would not cope.

friends parents same thing. i am suggesting that most people cannot get through anything on their own. being social doesn't being dependent.

 

[cristo]

friends parents same thing. i am suggesting that most people cannot get through anything on their own. being social doesn't being dependent.

How is it the same-- parents "have" to help you, whereas your friends don't! Anyway, this discussion has nothing to do with the original topic.

 

[ice109]

How is it the same-- parents "have" to help you, whereas your friends don't! Anyway, this discussion has nothing to do with the original topic.

no one has to be help you.

 

[InbredDummy]

omg, lock the thread!

 

[TMFKAN64]

Your parents job is not to just bring you up and toss you out.

Again, this is probably a cultural thing, but yes, that's exactly what I think a parent's job is.

If my son needs my help at some point, I will be there for him my entire life. If something catastrophic happens, he will always be welcome in my home. I wish he never had to move away. But if after his mid-20's or so, he is living with me for an extended term, I will feel like I failed as a parent.

 

[TMFKAN64]

is the expectation that if such a thing happens and one's parents aren't capable of doing this then one is expected to what? die?

Welcome to America.

 

[Cyrus]

I think there is some expectation in the US that once one's children become adults, they take off on their own, i.e. leave home and become self-sufficient.

This is the key problem. What is an 'adult'? An 18 year old is an adult by law. That does not mean they are ready to leave the house. A parent should ask their kid to leave the house only once their kid is an a position to start their life. I.e. they are ready emotionally, practically, and financially. To ask (or expect) them to leave otherwise is being a lousy self-centered parent. It would amount to throwing your kids into a lions den, because the world will have no mercy towards a 20-something-year-old in debt.

 

[morphism]

This is the key problem. What is an 'adult'? An 18 year old is an adult by law. That does not mean they are ready to leave the house. A parent should ask their kid to leave the house only once their kid is an a position to start their life. I.e. they are ready emotionally, practically, and financially. To ask (or expect) them to leave otherwise is being a lousy self-centered parent.

Let's not generalize and name-call.

Personally I do not agree with the "kicking them out of the nest quickly" philosophy, but I can understand why some people would adopt it (either willingly or unwillingly).

 

[Cyrus]

Tell me about it-- although the people I know who were in this situation became incredibly grown up, very quickly. Then again, there are the people whose parents allow them to live at home and sponge off them, without making an attempt to get a job. This is pretty sad, also.

There is exactly one reason for this. Work ethic. My parents, and my friends, have very strong work ethics from our parents. I also see lots of ME (hell, any race) kids who have money and no work ethic. They waste money like its water. THOSE are the ones who sponge off their parents, and *those* are the ones that need to be kicked out the house. (See, some kids *DO* need the boot).

It's true, but then again, I don't know many parents who'd really want their "kids" kicking around the house when they've grown up and got a job.

I would. If my kids just finished college and want to stick around for a year or two so they can save up some money and put a big down payment on their home, Id have no problem with that. In fact, I would encourage them to do so. That way they don't have to B-M-C about making ends meet.

However, equally so, I don't know that many people who would want to live with their parents when they've grown up and moved out; especially if they've already experienced life away from home.

I mean, I do whatever I want. I come home at all hours of the night (or don't come home). My parents don't treat me like I am a little child, and I don't see why anyone elses parents would...

 

[Cyrus]

Let's not generalize and name-call.

Personally I do not agree with the "kicking them out of the nest quickly" philosophy, but I can understand why some people would adopt it (either willingly or unwillingly).

Im not name calling to Astronuc. I was speaking in general. I don't see how that's 'name calling'. I see it as lousy, so I said its lousy. Also, in what way is it a generalization?

 

[Ki Man]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/06/07/student.loans.congress.ap/index.html"

 

[ZapperZ]

I will remind everyone involved to PAY ATTENTION to the PF Guidelines that you have agreed to. If you wish to TEST how far we are willing to tolerate off-topic ramblings like this, I can stop your curiosity right this moment by telling you that it is YOU who will lose.

If someone has something RELEVANT to add to the OP, please contact me and I'll reopen the thread. Otherwise, this is over.

Zz.

 

[Astronuc]

This is the key problem. What is an 'adult'? An 18 year old is an adult by law. That does not mean they are ready to leave the house. A parent should ask their kid to leave the house only once their kid is an a position to start their life. I.e. they are ready emotionally, practically, and financially. To ask (or expect) them to leave otherwise is being a lousy self-centered parent. It would amount to throwing your kids into a lions den, because the world will have no mercy towards a 20-something-year-old in debt.

I agree. And I am well aware that Cyrus was not name-calling.

I left home on my own accord at 17 - I basically decided to take care of myself. My parents certainly did not force me out - and in fact, I think they felt guilty. I left home because I just needed distance. And both my parents let me know that I was always welcome in their home and it would always be home. But frankly, as much as I love my parents - and I enjoy visiting them - I do not wish to live in same house.

While I was a teenager, both my parents worked, so I 'had' to look after my younger siblings. Sometimes it was a royal pain, but I had the responsibility.

As a parent, my hope is that both my children become self-sufficient and productive persons, and contribute something positive to the world.

 

[Defennder]

I agree. And I am well aware that Cyrus was not name-calling.

I left home on my own accord at 17 - I basically decided to take care of myself. My parents certainly did not force me out - and in fact, I think they felt guilty. I left home because I just needed distance. And both my parents let me know that I was always welcome in their home and it would always be home. But frankly, as much as I love my parents - and I enjoy visiting them - I do not wish to live in same house.

While I was a teenager, both my parents worked, so I 'had' to look after my younger siblings. Sometimes it was a royal pain, but I had the responsibility.

As a parent, my hope is that both my children become self-sufficient and productive persons, and contribute something positive to the world.

That's quite amazing. Where did you live and what did you work as when you left at 17? How did you sponsor your studies?

 

[gravenewworld]

Alright I didn't read all of the posts in this thread but I will post my experience with my student loan debt.

First off, I owe about $42,000 in loans that I borrowed for undergrad.

Second, I landed a job that pays $45,000 (roughly $52K if you want to count all the stock options and 401K matching) a year which is pretty good for a beginning position in the science industry.


Currently I pay the minimum on the loans every month (that is all I can afford right now), and I pay roughly $350 per month for all the loans. I'd say $225 of the $350 per month just goes to paying of the interest, the rest to the principal. The loan company that owns my loans expects that I will pay close to $15,000 in interest over the lifetime of the loan and at the rate that I am paying it off now, I won't be done paying it off until the year 2047 .


Get as many grants as possible. After that go to the government. Then after you have exhausted everything else, get a private loan.


On the plus side, there are some good reasons to carry some student loan debt. Carrying and paying off student loan debt will give you a better credit score. Also, the interest that you pay every year on your debt is tax deductible, so I get a fat tax deduction every year from my student loan interest payments. You really want to pay off all your other debt that has higher interest like you car loans or credit card first since you student loans will most likely be very low interest and are tax deductible.



IT IS NOT EASY PAYING OFF STUDENT LOANS. I make more than the average American already with my starting position and I still struggle to make ends meet sometimes. Anyone who has lived out in the real world for a year will tell you that it is not easy paying off more than $20K in student loan debt.

Take my income and subtract 33% for income tax- $1000 for city tax-$800 state tax-$418 every month for car payments-$125 every month for car insurance-$433 every month for rent-$250 for utilities-$400 for groceries-$200 for gasoline

once you subtract all that out, then tell me it would be easy to pay off my $42K of student loan debt

 

[Cyrus]

Hey grave, did you find a new job yet?

 

[gravenewworld]

nope, the company is still hanging on. over the past 2 weeks though there have been at least 10 people who have left. everyone is jumping ship. I will just wait until the very end, I plan on going to grad school anyway.

 

[mr_coffee]

I haven't read all the posts but what about fin. aid and scholarships/grants? my first year I took out 2k a semester, and after that year I had 4k in debt.

From there on, my good grades brought in a lot of $$$, then I had a lot of fin. aid as well. So I don't have any more debt than 4k and I'm making money going to school.

Why don't you claim independent if your parents aren't poor? Then you can at least get some fin. aid to help you. Also to cut costs for rooming, split an apartment with a lot of people. I know some guys who have 9 guys living in a 4 bedroom apartment their rent is like nothing even though its crowded, they just go to the library or some other area to study then just come home to sleep.

 

[quark80]

Wow! The expectations of some people in this thread amazes me! Possibly it's a cultural difference between the US and Australia, but my parents more or less kicked me out of home as soon as I finished grade 12 (I was 18). Their opinion was that after compulsory education was finished, it was my choice what I wanted to do with my life, and if I wanted to go to university I had to do so on my own grounds.

I was never eligible for the Australian equivalent of student loans as my parents earned too much and they were expected to support me. However they never gave me a cent towards my university education. And still I've managed to successfully put myself through 4 years of undergrad and 3 years of grad school, and am about to finish grad school with no debt. Get a job (I have worked as a TA since I was a 2nd year undergrad and worked fulltime in all the holidays as a research asst. and in industry), apply for academic scholarships...It can be done. Just stop whinging about it. Really, you can't expect your parents to support you forever. I find it kind of sad that people would expect that.