Announcement: New Rules for the PF Philosophy forum beginning January 1, 2011

[ptalar]

I mainly peruse the Cosmology and Beyond the Standard Model portions of the physics Forums but I do go to the philosophy forum on many of occasion. In the past I have found things discussed that I had wondered what others had thought about. I recently have been reading the philosophy forums the past couple of weeks and noticed that what has been a lot of interesting threads have been locked. I understand that the Philosophy forum Moderators have decided to focus on improving the caliber of discussion on the forum to focus on referenced works of philosophy and limited new ideas. I must say I am not sure I agree with that approach. Although some of the discussion tends to stray from traditional philosophy to more religious and metaphysical I have found this forum, in the past, to be an excellent potpourri of free thought. It has given me a lot of ideas and thoughts that I have pondered on over the years regardless of whether they have any scientific or philosophic rigor behind them or not. There are accusations of crackpots and kooks dialoguing on this forum. Well so be it. Many of the worlds greatest scientists and philosophers had mental issues also. I rarely post on these forums. I just read and absorb. I find it to be educational and entertaining at the same time. I am sorry to see that the we are tending toward the "Peoples Republic of Physics Forums."

 

[JaredJames]

Many of the worlds greatest scientists and philosophers had mental issues also.

You do realize you don't need to have mental issues to be a crackpot?

I just read and absorb.

Yep, something that kids do a lot and something you really don't want when there is little "scientific or philosophic rigor behind them".

You don't want people assimilating BS.

I am sorry to see that the we are tending toward the "Peoples Republic of Physics Forums."

I'm curious why you believe this is anything but a private forum? It is run how the owners dictate. No one else.

 

[nismaratwork]

I generally would consider a crackpot to meet the legal definition of sanity... otherwise I'd say, "nut", or in a professional setting, "mentally ill", "disturbed", or "unstable". The whole idea behind a crackpot to my thinking isn't a delusional process beyond self-delusion; I like your distinction JnJ.

@ptalar: Go somewhere else, it's still a free internet, but any given destinatino is subject to moderation. If you want to see what it's like in the wild west, go to a usenet chat, or irc channel. Keep your firewall up though...

 

[ptalar]

You do realize you don't need to have mental issues to be a crackpot?


Yep, something that kids do a lot and something you really don't want when there is little "scientific or philosophic rigor behind them".

You don't want people assimilating BS.


I'm curious why you believe this is anything but a private forum? It is run how the owners dictate. No one else.

I just find it to be an interesting place to read. Yes, the forum does give me things to think about once in a while. That is why I sort of like it the way it was.

I realize its a private forum. And they can do what they want. I will probably stop reading this forum as the amount of threads will probably get reduced to zero with only a few threads remaining among the a few tried and true philosophers. I guess I will see if those threads are worth reading.

And yes, I am like a child, I do read and absorb. I will probably never stop, until I die.

 

[ptalar]

I generally would consider a crackpot to meet the legal definition of sanity... otherwise I'd say, "nut", or in a professional setting, "mentally ill", "disturbed", or "unstable". The whole idea behind a crackpot to my thinking isn't a delusional process beyond self-delusion; I like your distinction JnJ.

@ptalar: Go somewhere else, it's still a free internet, but any given destinatino is subject to moderation. If you want to see what it's like in the wild west, go to a usenet chat, or irc channel. Keep your firewall up though...

Yeah, I probably will go away but it won't be because of your request. The forum will probably be closed by the end of the year due to lack of interest. I rarely post on this forum so I have already gone. I mainly read the threads.

And who do you think you are to tell me to go away? Why don't you go away? What makes you so important?

 

[nismaratwork]

Yeah, I probably will go away but it won't be because of your request. The forum will probably be closed by the end of the year due to lack of interest. I rarely post on this forum so I have already gone. I mainly read the threads.

And who do you think you are to tell me to go away? Why don't you go away? What makes you so important?

True, it would of course be a result of your behavior.

I'd add, mine wasn't a request, it was a suggestion that you find some clarity in contrast. Anyway, once you leave or are banned, you'll still be able to read the threads as a guest so... no big loss right?

edit: Are you at all ashamed to have used the equivalent of, "I'm going to bed because I WANT to, not because you TELL me to." ? I'm a little embarrassed for you, and I don't even know you.

 

[JaredJames]

Yeah, I probably will go away but it won't be because of your request. The forum will probably be closed by the end of the year due to lack of interest. I rarely post on this forum so I have already gone. I mainly read the threads.

If it's of no interest, there's no reason to stick around. There are plenty of people here who enjoy the place.

And who do you think you are to tell me to go away? Why don't you go away? What makes you so important?

That attitude isn't welcome here. Nismar pointed out your options, he didn't tell you to go away.

However, if you're only reason for sticking around is this thread and this nonsense then you might as well leave right now.

Just something to think about, consider the number of members and then look at how many complain - ooh look, it's a tiny percentage - must be doing something right after all.

 

[Char. Limit]

The forum will probably be closed by the end of the year due to lack of interest. I rarely post on this forum so I have already gone.

I wonder if you'd be willing to lay some money on your claim that this forum will be closed by the end of the year. Because I'd put my life and everything I own (which isn't much) on the fact that it won't.

And who do you think you are to tell me to go away? Why don't you go away? What makes you so important?

He made a suggestion, not a command. Quit acting all high and mighty, seriously.

 

[ptalar]

I only posted my opinion. Not to be harangued by you self appointed keepers of the faith.

I only posted because MIH suggested I post my opinion.

As far as stats go most people don't complain one way or another. I just felt there was some precious rhetoric going on and I hated to see it go. If you take the population signed on as members vs those that actively participate in this forum you will see a much smaller population.

This was just one of those things where I hate to see change.

And get a thick skin please. If you can't take a little pushback you should not be on the forum either.

 

[ptalar]

I wonder if you'd be willing to lay some money on your claim that this forum will be closed by the end of the year. Because I'd put my life and everything I own (which isn't much) on the fact that it won't.



He made a suggestion, not a command. Quit acting all high and mighty, seriously.

Oh it probably won't I was just challenging the old philosophy masters. I just hope there is enough interesting discussion to keep me reading.

You do realize there will probably be reduced traffic on the thread for a while until a better reputation can get around. Not to say it had a bad reputation to begin with.

 

[nismaratwork]

You really think that after 10 years of steady growth, a change in sub-forum rules will reduce traffic?

You have a very high opinion of yourself, and really, it's not about thick skin; please stop acting like a petulant child.

 

[Evo]

We've had major overhauls in Philosophy before. The last time we decided to raise the bar, the pack that was ruling the philosophy forum left and traffic increased. It seems that an occasional purge when the forum goes downhill has a positive effect in the long run.

 

[nismaratwork]

We've had major overhauls in Philosophy before. The last time we decided to raise the bar, the pack that was ruling the philosophy forum left and traffic increased.

Well, if ptalar's ironclad logic and dispassionate analysis is correct...


...Oh wait, none of that! I know that I've begun to frequent the Phil forum only AFTER these new rules. The bar is raised, and it makes that forum IMO. I don't see the major thinkers there being hindered in any way.

edit: Ptalar: You might find this thread to be useful in your case: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=478815

Now THAT was a suggestion, as opposed to simply offering a notion.

 

[Evo]

Let's not bicker.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yes'm!

 

[cobalt124]

I'm curious why you believe this is anything but a private forum? It is run how the owners dictate. No one else.

And if you don't like it, you don't take part.

The forum will probably be closed by the end of the year due to lack of interest.

Not a chance, and definitely not caused by the forum rules.

There are no self appointed keepers of the faith here, maybe a lot of loyalty towards a forum that is important, that matters to members. Members state what they think and how they feel, nothing else. There may be other forums to go to that are like that, but I bet there are not many.

 

[ptalar]

I am sorry I even stated my opinion here. Let me set the record straight. The Physics Forums is one of my favorite places to visit on the internet. All the forums are absolutely interesting reads. And yes the Phil forum was one of my favorites along with the cosmology forum.

I am done already.

Maybe Evo is right a purge now and then is like refreshing your computer. It makes it run better.

And by the way, I am mainly a reader. I don't post here very often. I am not even a philosopher. I am just a lowly engineer who works in Aerospace in SoCal.

 

[Char. Limit]

I am sorry I even stated my opinion here.

Why the hell are you sorry? You stated your opinion, we said why we disagreed with it. There's nothing to be sorry about!

I can't stand it when people are sorry for things that they shouldn't be apologizing for.

 

[ptalar]

Why the hell are you sorry? You stated your opinion, we said why we disagreed with it. There's nothing to be sorry about!

I can't stand it when people are sorry for things that they shouldn't be apologizing for.

LOL

 

[nismaratwork]

It's always a good thing to come to terms with, and then rationalize the inevitable.

 

[Redbelly98]

The forum will probably be closed by the end of the year due to lack of interest.

You might mean just the Philosophy forum at PF, but others appear to interpret your statement about "the forum" as meaning the entirety of Physics Forums.

 

[nismaratwork]

You might mean just the Philosophy forum at PF, but others appear to interpret your statement about "the forum" as meaning the entirety of Physics Forums.

Ooooohhhh... I hadn't considered that angle... thanks Redbelly98... although I still think that's incorrect (the conclusion of it closng), it is a different view.

 

[Char. Limit]

You might mean just the Philosophy forum at PF, but others appear to interpret your statement about "the forum" as meaning the entirety of Physics Forums.

Oh. Yeah, that's how I was interpreting it. I guess I was wrong, heheh...

 

[nismaratwork]

That's why we have mento-
...
...
... Redbelly... Why is your avatar not a bird with a red belly?

 

[lisab]

That's why we have mento-
...
...
... Redbelly... Why is your avatar not a bird with a red belly?

Oh you just can't see it in that shot...it's a bit further south. You could ask him to show it but beware, he's kind of shy .

 

[nismaratwork]

Oh you just can't see it in that shot...it's a bit further south. You could ask him to show it but beware, he's kind of shy .

I retract my comment.

 

[Physics-Learner]

as i stated earlier in the thread, i am of the same feeling as ptalar. i don't think of philosophy as a science. there are some topics that fit the mold of comparing studies or scientific journals. probably most of the forums at pf. certainly math and physics and other sciences. but philosophy ? with the current rules, i would take it out of the pf lounge, and put it in a "more serious" section.

i also wonder how many of these "highly regarded philosophers today" were thought of as crackpots by people of their time ?

my thinking is that there is no provable answer in philosophy. otherwise, it would be part of science.

 

[nismaratwork]

as i stated earlier in the thread, i am of the same feeling as ptalar. i don't think of philosophy as a science. there are some topics that fit the mold of comparing studies or scientific journals. probably most of the forums at pf. certainly math and physics and other sciences. but philosophy ? with the current rules, i would take it out of the pf lounge, and put it in a "more serious" section.

i also wonder how many of these "highly regarded philosophers today" were thought of as crackpots by people of their time ?

my thinking is that there is no provable answer in philosophy. otherwise, it would be part of science.

Quite a few were regarded as crackpots, but this is ultimately PhysF, not PhilF... that there is even a functional Phil forum on a Physics site is a testament to its flexibility. In the end, treating it as less than this would just make it unfit for PF.

 

[Physics-Learner]

i don't agree with that logic. in the pf lounge, there is skepticism, games, relationships, and politics or world affairs.

to my thinking, it is the choice of pf to reach out and get more traffic to their site by having something other than math and science. and they are all in the pf lounge.

perhaps a good option is to have a rigourous philosophy forum in a serious section, and then a more relaxed one in the pf lounge.

some of the threads seemed sort of nutty to me, but then i simply didnt read on. many of the other threads were quite interesting. i don't necessarily value some philosopher's thought processes more than someone here. i listen to what they say, and want them to give me their reasoning, so i can understand their perspective.

but that is just my druthers. i no longer go to the forum. and as you stated, you have started going there. any time rules are changed such that it causes a big difference, you will also get different people going there.

but i tend to suspect that ptalar is correct in that there will be less traffic in the current philosophy forum than before. my reasoning is that because this is basically a math and physics forum, it attracts people who generally regard philosophy as a bunch of nonsense - simply because it IS NOT SCIENCE oriented.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I am sorry I even stated my opinion here.

I'm not. I am appreciative that you did. I think we should hear what members are thinking, both positive and negative. The comments should not just go to me, but to Greg and everyone else on the forums.

 

[Physics-Learner]

well, we all have different things that we enjoy. i enjoy a conversation that is based on logical reasoning. in most any topic.

a person's reasoning process can be examined, whereby feedback can be given, such that all participants may gain an insight. and not just in the current topic, but as a part of life, in general.

so much reasoning by the masses is not with correct logical processes. just look at advertising. most of advertising are truths that are told by someone who knows that the average person will take it out of context. and advertising people are paid big bucks to put forth such statements.

conversations with logical reasoning helps better our reasoning process, and therefore benefits us in all areas of life.

 

[cobalt124]

a person's reasoning process can be examined, whereby feedback can be given, such that all participants may gain an insight. and not just in the current topic, but as a part of life, in general.

This, to me, is a very important part of PF, and any relaxing of the rules would undermine this feature of PF.

 

[Redbelly98]

... Redbelly... Why is your avatar not a bird with a red belly?

Oh you just can't see it in that shot...it's a bit further south. You could ask him to show it but beware, he's kind of shy .

Indeed. We prefer to have people wonder why our bellies aren't really red, rather than have a name like "the red-crotched woodpecker".

At the risk of getting an infraction for posting obscenity:

[PLAIN]http://www.weeksbay.org/photo_gallery/woodpeckers/RED-BELLIED%20WOODPECKER2.jpg[/INDENT][/INDENT]

(BTW, that's not me!)​

 

[nismaratwork]

Indeed. We prefer to have people wonder why our bellies aren't really red, rather than have a name like "the red-crotched woodpecker".

At the risk of getting an infraction for posting obscenity:

[PLAIN]http://www.weeksbay.org/photo_gallery/woodpeckers/RED-BELLIED%20WOODPECKER2.jpg[/INDENT][/INDENT]

(BTW, that's not me!)​

Nothing so adorable as that little... pecker... could be infraction-worthy. Where I am, there are a few variegated woodpeckers, but they're busily tearing my mother's house to shreds. *sigh* I get a phone call followed by, "Can you hear that? *peckpeckpeckpeckpeck...* Can YOU?!"... yes... yes I can.

Still... your namesake is too cute to be annoyed with...​

 

[ptalar]

I see that the angry hordes have quieted down.