Are Men Truly Happier Than Women Due to Societal and Biological Differences?

[zoobyshoe]

Men are intimidated by any woman who is attractive. If they aren't worried about whether or not they are good enough for you then they are either freakishly secure with their self esteem or they really aren't that interested.

I'd have to agree with this. I am not intimidated by intelligence in a woman. I think it is exiting. But the more attractive she might be the more intimidated I am.

 

[Moonbear]

I'd have to agree with this. I am not intimidated by intelligence in a woman. I think it is exiting. But the more attractive she might be the more intimidated I am.

Really sucks for us gorgeous and intelligent women.

 

[Huckleberry]

Hmmm...I remember this picture of Einstein with his tongue sticking out...

I'll have to try that the next time I find myself attracted to a woman. I have a feeling the reaction would be extreme in one direction or another.

This is me attempting to appear intelligent...
Is it working?

 

[Danger]

<--- I never realized that was supposed to be the smart smiley!

It isn't. Einstein had his tongue like this —>

In fact, except for the hair and wrinkles it looks just like him.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I'll have to try that the next time I find myself attracted to a woman. I have a feeling the reaction would be extreme in one direction or another.

This is me attempting to appear intelligent...
Is it working?

I'm not sure you caught my drift. That little green guy doesn't have...a high enough I.Q. Einstein's...I.Q. appears to be very high.

 

[Moonbear]

This is me attempting to appear intelligent...
Is it working?

Nope, but you're looking pretty cute there! :!)

 

[kleinjahr]

There's too many women posting on this thread.(don't encourage them)

Just trying to be my normal sensitive, caring, charming self.

Some would like to be a man amongst men. I prefer to be a man amongst women. Lots and lots of women. Perhaps it's the masochist in me.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Reading this makes me wish I was smart enough to radiate smartness.

After listening to a woman talk, once, I spontaneously offered the observation that she had excellent enunciation. A few days later, I overheard her remark "Yes, zoob is a very intelligent man."

The other time someone remarked to a third party that I was very intelligent was after I'd sat and listened to her talk for about an hour without interrupting.

 

[Moonbear]

The other time someone remarked to a third party that I was very intelligent was after I'd sat and listened to her talk for about an hour without interrupting.

Oh, yes, that's the hallmark of an intelligent man.

 

[Huckleberry]

After listening to a woman talk, once, I spontaneously offered the observation that she had excellent enunciation. A few days later, I overheard her remark "Yes, zoob is a very intelligent man."

The other time someone remarked to a third party that I was very intelligent was after I'd sat and listened to her talk for about an hour without interrupting.

That wouldn't be very satisfying for me at all. Did they not see the intelligence, or did they somehow intuit it? Sincere flattery is nice, but I don't like insincere kindness.

Maybe they were just being nice to you because you're name is zoob.

 

[zoobyshoe]

That wouldn't be very satisfying for me at all. Did they not see the intelligence, or did they somehow intuit it? Sincere flattery is nice, but I don't like insincere kindness.

YIKES! You seriously don't get women. Both compliments were totally sincere. Women LOVE to be listened to. Likewise they LOVE anything positive you might say about them as people. No one had ever made a point of telling that woman how good her enunciation was.

 

[Huckleberry]

Or maybe I don't understand intelligence. Either could be true.
My superego is a pain in the butt sometimes.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here's the thing, son: if you sit and yak a woman's ear off trying to impress her, you come off as a self-involved jerk. It is much better to err on the side of not saying enough, just put all your energy into paying attention. You come off as interested, observant, thoughtful.

 

[Moonbear]

Here's the thing, son: if you sit and yak a woman's ear off trying to impress her, you come off as a self-involved jerk. It is much better to err on the side of not saying enough, just put all your energy into paying attention. You come off as interested, observant, thoughtful.

You still have to respond once in a while with a nod or agreement or something, otherwise we'll think you're not listening. If we're interested, ve haf vays to make you talk.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yup...uh huh...yeah...I see...yup...sure, yeah...

 

[Danger]

It is much better to err on the side of not saying enough, just put all your energy into paying attention. You come off as interested, observant, thoughtful.

This is also essential preparation for marriage.

 

[zoobyshoe]

This is also essential preparation for marriage.

There's talking ater marriage?

 

[Danger]

There's talking ater marriage?

None, but there's a lot of paying attention.

 

[Huckleberry]

Here's the thing, son: if you sit and yak a woman's ear off trying to impress her, you come off as a self-involved jerk. It is much better to err on the side of not saying enough, just put all your energy into paying attention. You come off as interested, observant, thoughtful.

I know, dad. Originally I was completely kidding about looking intelligent. And I wouldn't chat up a girl trying to show her how intelligent I am. (or aren't as the case may be. It's really her decision that matters in this case.) The definition of intelligence is difficult to nail down. In the case of the guy that yaks a girl ear off to impress her, he may know many things but he misses the point of a conversation. The guy that listens and is complimentary may not know as many things as the other guy but he has a greater social understanding (intelligence).

For me it is a little different.
I have difficulty feigning interest in something I have no interest in. My verbal editor isn't always functioning properly and I say things without much tact sometimes. Women have comented that sometimes I can say everything right and then I suddenly say something hurtful or embarrassing that leaves them confused.

Here's an example that I've been thinking about for a long time.
I was talking with my best friend's fiance. Somehow the topic of the age old question, "Do I look fat in this?" came up. I told her that if a woman asked me that I would tell her my honest opinion. She looked at me like I had three eyes and said something like, "You'll ostracise yourself if you talk like that." I can definitely see how she is right.

My logic goes like this. Honesty is something I believe in, especially with someone who I love and trust. I should tell the truth. If the truth is something that would hurt her this is an undesirable result. I think about Compassion. The compassionate thing to do would be to say something that would not offend her. I think about how to come up with an answer without sacraficing one virtue over another. I think it is odd that virtues would conflict with each other and wonder where this tension is coming from. Then it strikes me that the question is vain. Honesty and Compassion are not struggling against each other. They are struggling against Vanity. So then I decide the compassionate thing to do would be to tell the truth and remove the vanity.

Kind of screwy huh? But that is why I said I have an overdeveloped superego. It's probably also why I'm still single. When I say nice things it can be very nice because I truly, deeply mean it. And the things that I say that are interpreted as cruel or harsh are taken deeply. It's not my intention to be harsh but I recognize that I am putting my values over the feelings of another person.

I'm a work in progress. And I got a long way to go.

 

[Moonbear]

Yup...uh huh...yeah...I see...yup...sure, yeah...

See how smart that zooby is!

 

[Moonbear]

Here's an example that I've been thinking about for a long time.
I was talking with my best friend's fiance. Somehow the topic of the age old question, "Do I look fat in this?" came up. I told her that if a woman asked me that I would tell her my honest opinion. She looked at me like I had three eyes and said something like, "You'll ostracise yourself if you talk like that." I can definitely see how she is right.

My logic goes like this. Honesty is something I believe in, especially with someone who I love and trust. I should tell the truth. If the truth is something that would hurt her this is an undesirable result. I think about Compassion. The compassionate thing to do would be to say something that would not offend her. I think about how to come up with an answer without sacraficing one virtue over another. I think it is odd that virtues would conflict with each other and wonder where this tension is coming from. Then it strikes me that the question is vain. Honesty and Compassion are not struggling against each other. They are struggling against Vanity. So then I decide the compassionate thing to do would be to tell the truth and remove the vanity.

We'd get along well. I believe that if you don't want an honest answer, don't ask the question. (Then again, the really tempting and tactless answer to that age-old question is, "No, that outfit doesn't make you look fat, your big butt does." ) I get annoyed if I get the pat answer, "You look great just the way you are." But I've been told I'm unusual for this quality, because I really don't get upset if someone gives me the honest answer. I might feel stung for a bit if it's a hurtful answer (sometimes the truth does hurt), but I recover, and feel it's more important to be honest in a relationship than to just say whatever will placate the other person (there's also a bit of the underlying threat that I will find out if you lied to me, and then it will be 10 times worse than if you told the truth in the first place).

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Huck, as far as the honesty goes, women do like it you just have to be careful how you say it. I had a girlfriend who thught I was just being patronizing when ever she asked how she looked in something and I said she looked good. In that case I was being honest, I really did think she looked wonderful all the time no matter what, but she actually did want a critical response.

 

[Huckleberry]

We'd get along well. I believe that if you don't want an honest answer, don't ask the question. (Then again, the really tempting and tactless answer to that age-old question is, "No, that outfit doesn't make you look fat, your big butt does." ) I get annoyed if I get the pat answer, "You look great just the way you are." But I've been told I'm unusual for this quality, because I really don't get upset if someone gives me the honest answer. I might feel stung for a bit if it's a hurtful answer (sometimes the truth does hurt), but I recover, and feel it's more important to be honest in a relationship than to just say whatever will placate the other person (there's also a bit of the underlying threat that I will find out if you lied to me, and then it will be 10 times worse than if you told the truth in the first place).

Yeah, I sometimes try to dress things up with humor to take the edge off. I'm usually very sensitive to others feelings. So I get hurt no matter what I say when a question like that is asked. The whole virtue/superego thing is a protective mechanism for me that I, of course, developed as a child. I realize that it is not an ideal system, but I don't have a better one yet. I consider the value of virtue to be greater than my own life. This is bound to cause internal conflict, yet I enjoy the benefits too. I would like a way that I can hold virtue in high regard and not suffer greatly for it. I haven't found that yet.

I've already realized that your pretty special Moonbear That's not very difficult to see.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, I sometimes try to dress things up with humor to take the edge off. I'm usually very sensitive to others feelings. So I get hurt no matter what I say when a question like that is asked. The whole virtue/superego thing is a protective mechanism for me that I, of course, developed as a child. I realize that it is not an ideal system, but I don't have a better one yet. I consider the value of virtue to be greater than my own life. This is bound to cause internal conflict, yet I enjoy the benefits too. I would like a way that I can hold virtue in high regard and not suffer greatly for it. I haven't found that yet.

One of my ex-boyfriends (that long-term one) was good at finding just the right answer. If I asked him something that he thought was a "trap," he'd just tell me, "I'm going to get in trouble no matter what answer I give to that." It worked, because then I'd insist that was good reason to give the truthful answer, and I'd get it because then he knew I wasn't going to bite his head off for it.

I've already realized that your pretty special Moonbear That's not very difficult to see.

:shy: Thanks.

 

[Huckleberry]

YW

Zooby must be cookin' up something good on this one. I hope it digests well.

 

[Moonbear]

YW

Zooby must be cookin' up something good on this one. I hope it digests well.

Zooby's cooking? Looks like he left for the night (his green light went out).

 

[Huckleberry]

Zooby's cooking? Looks like he left for the night (his green light went out).

And I thought he was a good listener. He went and fell asleep while I was talking to him. That's it, no second date for zoobie.

Speaking of which. It's getting late here too. I think it's bedtime for Bonzo.

 

[Moonbear]

And I thought he was a good listener. He went and fell asleep while I was talking to him. That's it, no second date for zoobie.

Speaking of which. It's getting late here too. I think it's bedtime for Bonzo.

Me too. I've already dragged the laptop into bed with me, but now it's time to actually go to sleep. Goodnight and hope you have some good dreams worthy of amusing interpretation!

 

[cronxeh]

hmm so I am not the only one who has a laptop in bed with me..

interesting. i also put the headphones on and go to sleep with laptop next to me and playing trance streams..

 

[zoobyshoe]

Zooby must be cookin' up something good on this one. I hope it digests well.

Funny thing. I actually thought you all had gone away last night. Today I find several posts here that the PF e-mail never told me about.

Anyway, Huck, I know exactly what you mean about the fat pants, and that sort of thing. It has taken me considerable time to figure out what is probably behind this, and it isn't really vanity. Women's concern about their appearance is, I think, a kind of natural necessity with evolutionary underpinnings.

Don't know if you've read the Mars/Venus book, but I found it to be very insightful. It explained a lot of things to me about women that I would never have figured out on my own.

I never meant to suggest you feign interest. What I meant to point out is that listening is the best way to effectively communicate interest.

 

[Evo]

hmm so I am not the only one who has a laptop in bed with me..

I also have a laptop in bed with me. It doesn't snore, doesn't care what the temperature is (I like it cool), it doesn't hog the covers and my sneezing and nose blowing doesn't keep it awake at night.

 

[zoobyshoe]

...and my sneezing and nose blowing doesn't keep it awake at night.

Cocaine's a tough road, Evo.

 

[Huckleberry]

Anyway, Huck, I know exactly what you mean about the fat pants, and that sort of thing. It has taken me considerable time to figure out what is probably behind this, and it isn't really vanity. Women's concern about their appearance is, I think, a kind of natural necessity with evolutionary underpinnings.

I see it more as a circle. Evolution forms society and society then forms evolution. I also consider the option that vanity is a natural necessity. All of the virtues that we associate with negative aspects (or vices as some may call them) are an important part of human evolution. Without a cause of struggle there is no necessity for change and thus no evolution. So I still see vanity as the cause of tension in the 'fat pants' question. I'm open to alternatives but expect that it will take years before I change my opinion because it took years to form.

Don't know if you've read the Mars/Venus book, but I found it to be very insightful. It explained a lot of things to me about women that I would never have figured out on my own.

Another one to put on my must read list. I really should get back to trying to finish that.

I never meant to suggest you feign interest. What I meant to point out is that listening is the best way to effectively communicate interest.

I think most guys know this, which is why many feign interest in conversations that do not interest them. Even if I was interested in the woman I would at first try to be patient. If she is yaking my ear off without regards to my interests then I would attempt to change the subject, or suggest another activity. Then I might feign interest in the conversation, but I'd quickly become impatient. Soon I would just tell her straight out that I'd rather do something else than continue to talk about this subject.

Hmm, maybe if I find myself not interested in much of what a woman has to say then I am interested in that woman for the wrong reasons. I'm not much of a talker anyway. (but I can write all day)

 

[zoobyshoe]

I see it more as a circle. Evolution forms society and society then forms evolution.

The evolutionary bottom line is that if a man isn't sexually exited no sex act is going to take place. (No genes will be transferred to the next generation.) Women know this and are always trying to figure out what men like. I translate the question about pants to mean "Do you still find me attractive?"

I met a woman here, couple three months ago, and she said something to the effect that, as soon as a woman loses her virginity she is in competition with all other women for men. That being the case women never believe anything any other woman tells them about how they look. They're always trying to figure out non-obvious ways to find out what men think. The pants quetion should be translated as fishing for reassurance, rather than vanity.

If she is yaking my ear off without regards to my interests then I would attempt to change the subject, or suggest another activity.

Women yak non-stop mostly to vent. Guys sometimes do it in the mistaken belief it is like pouring more and more mojo into her, hypnotizing her. It usually ends up driving her away.

Hmm, maybe if I find myself not interested in much of what a woman has to say then I am interested in that woman for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, if every conversation ends up with her venting and you listening, it's pointless to stick around.

 

[Huckleberry]

The evolutionary bottom line is that if a man isn't sexually exited no sex act is going to take place. (No genes will be transferred to the next generation.) Women know this and are always trying to figure out what men like. I translate the question about pants to mean "Do you still find me attractive?"

I've never been satisfied with the concept that evolution encapsulates my individuality. Physically attractive women are more likely to attract a man. What qualifies as attractive varies from one person to another. (already a thread on this one elsewhere) For me, this is initially important, but the more I come to know a woman the less important it becomes. The transition can happen in seconds. Physical attraction doesn't hold any influence on maintaining a relationship for me. And I find that the more I come to know a woman the more attractive she becomes. And if I can't find an emotional connection with an attractive woman she becomes much less desirable to me.

I see a huge difference between the phrases "Does my butt look fat in these pants?" and "Do you still find me attractive?" The first one causes me tension and harm either way I answer it. Even if her butt does not appear fat to me and I can answer the question positively and honestly I still feel like I have been used to prop up her self-esteem and the question has nothing to do with how I feel about her. The second one I can answer honestly and with pleasure because it is an honest question. The first question is actually asking how attractive she appears to the rest of the world. The second one is asking exactly what it states.

Women yak non-stop mostly to vent. Guys sometimes do it in the mistaken belief it is like pouring more and more mojo into her, hypnotizing her. It usually ends up driving her away.

Venting is okay with me. Not every day of course, but I've always got a sympathetic ear for venting. She might be yaking about how she folds her laundry or the types of birds that visit her backyard, but if I recognize that venting is the purpose then that is interesting to me.

There are times where talking about the weather is just fine. Sometimes when I'm around someone who's company I enjoy (male or female) it's nice to just enjoy their company and it doesn't matter what is said. With a woman there sometimes feels like there is a need to make conversation, but nothing comes to mind at the moment. I can recognize that too and some talk about shoe inserts is just fine. I usually look for the motivation behind the words and not so much at the words themselves.

edit- Another, more likely option just occurred to me. A woman's attractiveness is not only important for attracting men. The way women are viewed in society her attractiveness affects the way people perceive her, even other women. When she asks her male companion "Do I look fat in these pants?" she may very well be asking how she appears to the rest of the world. She is asking someone she loves and trusts what other people think of her. I still think its a loaded question and I would much rather answer the honest question, but I can understand that she might feel embarrassed. Doesn't seem 100% trustful to ask such a question, but people can die of embarrassment, so I guess it is understandable.