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So the question becomes, how do we rebuild the black family.nsaspook said:The lack of strong families.
So the question becomes, how do we rebuild the black family.nsaspook said:The lack of strong families.
Greg Bernhardt said:So the question becomes, how do we rebuild the black family.
Other than for the prison industry, how are broken homes profitable?nsaspook said:The way capitalism always works, make strong black (and poor) families profitable vs broken homes in the long run but healing the culture is hard once the chain is broken. I don't know the answer for the country as a whole, I only know how to make my family work.
Greg Bernhardt said:Other than for the prison industry, how are broken homes profitable?
I need to read up on this topic. I've heard it referenced a lot, but don't know anything about it. Sounds very interesting.Vanadium 50 said:The US has had a half-century experience with the Great Society, and we can see some things - e.g. high-rise public housing - that clearly don't work.
Right and I thought his angle was that there are forces that profit from a broken home. No?Vanadium 50 said:I think his argument was to reduce the number of broken homes.
Unfortunately, I think that one could write entire books on this.Greg Bernhardt said:Right and I thought his angle was that there are forces that profit from a broken home. No?
Greg Bernhardt said:Right and I thought his angle was that there are forces that profit from a broken home. No?
nsaspook said:Not, really. I don't think there is a cabal of people putting 'black people down' for money but in general if there is money to be made from improving black family's instead on putting men in jail someone will think about making that money in the most efficient and profitable way possible.
HuskyNamedNala said:To be more general, there is quite a bit of profitability from the poor. Prisons are a good example and so are predatory student loans/for profit colleges. I would argue that there are forces trying to keep people down.
nsaspook said:I'm not saying anything is gone but compared to then, today is a heaven. There is a culture of American black violence in this country that's rotten to the core and completely disconnected from education, housing, employment discrimination. That culture needs to change but I believe some are using that as leverage to remain in power in the black community.
Tobias Funke said:...
Anyway, I agree with Borq that one could, and many do, write whole books about this. I think Michelle Alexander does quite a good job describing "the new Jim Crow" (in fact, much of the criticism of her book comes from being offended by that phrase and not the actual content), and she doesn't shy away from "black on black violence" or the fact that black communities themselves often support tough-on-crime policies. I even read James Forman Jr's Racial Critiques of Mass Incarceration: Beyond the New Jim Crow, which is sometimes offered as a rebuttal to Alexander but actually largely agrees with her and praises her as the best of the "new Jim Crow" writers.
nsaspook said:There is a conspiracy of sorts, not of "a stunningly comprehensive and well-disguised system of racialized social control that functions in a manner strikingly similar to Jim Crow." run by black people in Baltimore and now the President of the United States but of a street level war on black violence that leads cops to abuse power when they don't care, thugs that don't care to abuse good citizens and the flight of anyone who can afford to move to leave because they don't care to live in a war zone. Keeping the 'lid on' the zone, stopping the spread of this cancer by doing what has to be done on the streets with a increasingly militarized police force is the logical result of a culture of violence begetting more violence with modern media feeding off the blood. Mass Incarceration was the solution chosen by the people over street battles.
Tobias Funke said:I would actually like an answer as to the cause of this black violence. If it's not a societal but a cultural problem, then what is there to protest about? I can't even pin down your thoughts on this. Cops who don't care abuse their power but a simple youtube video can stop black people from being killed by cops? Make up your mind.
Greg Bernhardt said:So the question becomes, how do we rebuild the black family.
nsaspook said:I've given my reasons on the pathology of black violence. No excuses for police abuse that should be protested about but a large percentage (some are innocents) of the people injured or killed in these abuses were not nice people just walking down the street. Their interaction was started by criminal activity.
Tobias Funke said:You've brought up welfare leading to broken families (you also said the families were unbreakable!?) and denied that there is any other reason, or at least dismissed any other one offered. I find that highly unlikely. And once again, you admit that there are people killed in police abuses but all you seem focused on is shifting the blame away from the police. Seems very one-sided to me.
nsaspook said:Our family was unbreakable because we were a complete family.
That's your take on it but I actually lived and went to 'Negro' grade school in segregation, in a southern town with 'whites only', been called the 'N' word to my face in class after segregation at the 'white' school, marched in Dallas during the civil rights movement, cried when MLK died, joined the military to escape Texas (and haven't been back for more than 30 days since), go to school on the VN era GI bill, work and raise a family of 4 kids. I've had plenty of time to think over how we got here and why. It only seems one-sided if you look at it in 2D, I've been there in 3D.
Tobias Funke said:edit: Also, I'm not discounting your own experiences being there in 3D. I just know that there are plenty of other people who have been there in 3D who come to very different conclusions, or at least acknowledge your point but recognize many other factors.
Plenty of examples where rioting has been allowed to continue by mayors with little after effect on their careers. Sharon Pratt Dixon in DC, OWS mayors, off the top of my head.JakeBrodskyPE said:If this is true, Mayor Blake's career is finished.
The District’s mayor, Sharon Pratt Dixon, told the police to hold back from making arrests for looting because she feared it would antagonize the crowd and lead to more violence
mheslep said:Plenty of examples where rioting has been allowed to continue by mayors with little after effect on their careers. Sharon Pratt Dixon in DC, OWS mayors, off the top of my head.
Meanwhile, elsewhere in the country - Clashes erupt in U.S. West Coast cities during May Day marchesThe thousands of marchers who are expected to hit the streets this weekend will now do so to celebrate the decision by State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby to charge the officers with felonies ranging from assault to murder, and encourage continued peaceful demonstrations.
Astronuc said:Thousands expected in Baltimore rallies, now celebratory
http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-expected-baltimore-rallies-now-celebratory-070325145.html
Yeah, you have to be smart when charging somebody with a crime. At best, I think you could get them for negligent homicide.JakeBrodskyPE said:This bothers me. They're acting as if the police have already been convicted. Professor Alan Dershowitz made an interesting point that the prosecutor's charges are not just over-the-top, but perhaps even unfounded in any reality. What will those crowds do when the six officers are acquitted of these ridiculous, over-the-top charges? And then, because of double-jeopardy they can't be charged for the same crime?
I can see charging them with neglect, possibly even a manslaughter charge here or there, but I don't see how any of this amounts to a murder charge.
I doubt we've seen the last of the demonstrations or even the riots.
Of course not. If you want to make a riot, then there would always be a proper excuse, like in Italy:JakeBrodskyPE said:This bothers me. They're acting as if the police have already been convicted. Professor Alan Dershowitz made an interesting point that the prosecutor's charges are not just over-the-top, but perhaps even unfounded in any reality. What will those crowds do when the six officers are acquitted of these ridiculous, over-the-top charges? And then, because of double-jeopardy they can't be charged for the same crime?
I can see charging them with neglect, possibly even a manslaughter charge here or there, but I don't see how any of this amounts to a murder charge.
I doubt we've seen the last of the demonstrations or even the riots.
leroyjenkens said:The problem is people think when cops encounter somebody and that person ends up dead, that means the cop went out that day thinking "I think I'm going to murder a man today." So in their minds, we have these evil cops on the street, and the state is protecting them. So charging them with murder is exactly what they think is going on; cops are murderous psychopaths and we finally caught them. And some may not know the difference between "charged" and "convicted."
Astronuc said:Meanwhile, elsewhere in the country - Clashes erupt in U.S. West Coast cities during May Day marches
http://news.yahoo.com/may-day-march-seattle-turns-violent-three-police-034406128.html
And rioting is supposed to help how?
I've talked to those strawmen.Tobias Funke said:Yes, that is what those strawmen think.