Beauty of old electrical and measuring things, etc.

[berkeman]

this old Western Union Telegraph Company telegraph relay

I recently learned why the "relay" part of ARRL was important. Anybody else know? What a fundamental and important part of history...

 

[dlgoff]

I recently learned why the "relay" part of ARRL was important. Anybody else know? What a fundamental and important part of history...

Not sure; radio relay? As in hopping messages across the country?

 

[dlgoff]

love the new additions to your collection, Don

Thanks. I was lucky to get them.

 

[berkeman]

Not sure; radio relay? As in hopping messages across the country?

Yeah, exactly. Such a primitive technology with spark coils, but with long enough Rx antennas and enough people listening, you could relay Morse code messages across the country.

 

[lastfsdfsd23]

wow ! this equipment is so beautiful. i just wondered
to seen it. just awesome.

 

[dlgoff]

I've been trying to get a metal deposition system put together but had to do a little beautification on this old General Radio Co. W30M Variac that I'm incorporating. Here's a outside and inside (powered & set to 140 volts) view of this 30 amp beauty. :)

 

[dlgoff]

My beautiful coffee table.

 

[DrClaude]

My beautiful coffee table.

That brings back memories. My father was an electrician and, when I was young, we used to use ceramic insulators (like the left-most red one in your picture, but blue) as door stops.

 

[dlgoff]

... we used to use ceramic insulators (like the left-most red one in your picture, but blue) as door stops.

I can see using them like that. A blue one would be a nice addition. I've got boxes of insulators and for the most part only duplicated a few types. However different colors counted as not being duplicated. Memories is what this thread is all about.

 

[DrClaude]

I can see using them like that. A blue one would be a nice addition. I've got boxes of insulators and for the most part only duplicated a few types. However different colors counted as not being duplicated. Memories is what this thread is all about.

I don't think my father kept them. Otherwise, I would gladly send you one. (Not sure how much it would cost to mail such a beast...)

 

[dlgoff]

I don't think my father kept them. Otherwise, I would gladly send you one. (Not sure how much it would cost to mail such a beast...)

Oh. That's okay, but thanks for offering. Actually I should be thinking about downsizing.

I told daughter that when I'm dead and gone, don't sell the beauties, just give them away.

 

[ernic]

Nice work

 

[dlgoff]

Nice work

Thank you.

 

[dlgoff]

I've been trying to get a metal deposition system put together but had to do a little beautification on this old General Radio Co. W30M Variac that I'm incorporating.

To get the current to heat the Tungsten evaporation element, like this circuit in the old Variac's manual,

I picked up this (after two days of cleaning) beauty, "supplementary transformer" (actually 0 to 5 vac power supply).

Check out the Simpson current transformer and ac amp meter.
Here's a couple of pics of what I have so far for the deposition system that I just pumped down and tested at ~100 amp.

 

[jim hardy]

wow ! just Wow !

 

[dlgoff]

I've been trying to get a metal deposition system put together ...

Since I mentioned this here in my beauty thread, I thought I might as well show a pic of my first thin film Copper deposition.

 

[jim hardy]

Is that a copper mirror reflecting Physics forums homepage from screen?

Impressive !

Would it deposit copper coating on a metal part ?

 

[dlgoff]

Would it deposit copper coating on a metal part ?

I believe so. I have to clean all the metal components in the bell jar after every run. I don't think that the film would be very strongly attached as it would be from sputtering.

BTW yes. that's the copper on glass slide reflecting the PF home page.

 

[DrClaude]

Since I mentioned this here in my beauty thread, I thought I might as well show a pic of my first thin film Copper deposition.

View attachment 108747

Beautiful! But be careful not to go Anthony Weiner on us

 

[dlgoff]

Beautiful! But be careful not to go Anthony Weiner on us

Got it! Hoping you don't go Andrew Breitbart on me.

 

[dlgoff]

I’ve had this vintage, 1950’s, blue Kenmore sun lamp for a while but didn’t know how to display it until now. It’s coming in handy to work on my vacuum system I’m putting together.

 

[dlgoff]

...work on my vacuum system...

I thought I'd share a couple pics of the vacuum deposition (now sputter) system I've put together with mostly old "Beauty" components. I am just about ready to give it a try to see if it'll sputter copper onto glass. I've added a little heat exchanger to bring the temperature down on the electrode cooling air and made a HV tube power supply for the sputter potential (adjustable up to ~2kV). Also have Argon that I'll introduce after a good pump-down to help get a copper plasma.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I have had this little detector for quite a few years now. I don't recall what I paid for it but a HAM that I used to work with sold it to me for what I recall being quite reasonable. He is deceased now so it means a bit more to me. Thought I would make it my avatar but it also fits in this thread just fine.

 

[dlgoff]

I have had this little detector for quite a few years now. I don't recall what I paid for it but a HAM that I used to work with sold it to me for what I recall being quite reasonable. He is deceased now so it means a bit more to me. Thought I would make it my avatar but it also fits in this thread just fine.

View attachment 131256

Thanks for sharing this beauty. Can you explain a little how it works?

I understand how it can give meaning to you. My HAM mentor (W0AFQ) would be in his 90s now and I'd love to let him know that his mentoring made a huge impact in my life.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Such variability, bordering on what seemed the mystical, plagued the early history of crystal detectors and caused many of the vacuum tube experts of a later generation to regard the art of crystal rectification as being close to disreputable.

The above is taken from a wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's-whisker_detector
-
Early semiconductors were not taken at all seriously since there was an association with the instability of the cat's whisker detector. I have never tried using one but as a kid I had a lot of fun tinkering with 'crystal' radio using a germanium diode. After a while I learned to plug the output of my crystal set into the mic input on a tape recorder and listen through the external speaker jack. My first experience with understanding amplification.
-
With cat's whisker detectors as I understand you would poke around with the thing until you got acceptable reception. Of course I can imagine trying a new stab at it because it was a shot in the dark and I would get greedy thinking there was a better spot on the crystal. I would assume moving the detector would also detune what it was hooked to. So if the detector gets bumped it probably also means a retune. Todays cell phone equipped kids have no idea what it took to get here. And for that matter I probably underestimate it plenty too.

 

[anorlunda]

After a while I learned to plug the output of my crystal set into the mic input on a tape recorder and listen through the external speaker jack. My first experience with understanding amplification.

Wow, I can relate to that. I had a very similar experience in my youth that greatly influenced my career. But my experience was playing with a TR-10 analog computer. It gave me an intuitive feel for transient dynamics, and the relationship to DIFF-EQ, and an appreciation for energy (the charge on those capacitors in the TR-10, no capacitors no dynamics). That started me down an analytical path much different than the hands-on path of you, @berkeman, @jim hardy and others here on PF. But in terms of a early life experience that influenced a young mind, it was very much the same.

 

[jim hardy]

It gave me an intuitive feel for transient dynamics, and the relationship to DIFF-EQ, and an appreciation for energy (the charge on those capacitors in the TR-10, no capacitors no dynamics). That started me down an analytical path much different than the hands-on path of you, @berkeman, @jim hardy and others here on PF. But in terms of a early life experience that influenced a young mind, it was very much the same.

Wow i remember a lab course we took called "analog computing" . I don't remember whether it was a "Pace" we had in the lab or something similar... but i knew i should be able to relate to the hardware. As with most things academic i struggled with the equations, was in danger of failing.

One Friday evening something clicked - it dawned on me all you had to do was arrange the differential terms in order and wire up the integrators same way, set the gain & time constant resistors and run it. So i did all our semester's labs over that weekend, wrote them up with great enthusiasm and got "A" . Still one of my favorite memories.
That 'feel' you mention was for me integral-differential relations. I could relate them to capacitance.
Some years later i encountered and understood Ray Nath's analog computer that solves the six group delayed neutron equation for startup testing of reactors. EAI built it, too.

I guess that's why i am drawn to analog electronics, it's a familiar language.

Life's little coincidences , eh ? They shape us.
Buy your grandkids some small hand tools and a junk VCR to take apart. Have them put the little screws in a bottle for fixing things later.
Kids love it, it teaches them finger dexterity and curiosity that pay off in later life. My daughter fixes everything from icemakers to car windows and is teaching her kids to do the same. .

old jim

 

[TurtleMeister]

The above is taken from a wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's-whisker_detector
-
Early semiconductors were not taken at all seriously since there was an association with the instability of the cat's whisker detector. I have never tried using one but as a kid I had a lot of fun tinkering with 'crystal' radio using a germanium diode. After a while I learned to plug the output of my crystal set into the mic input on a tape recorder and listen through the external speaker jack. My first experience with understanding amplification.
-
With cat's whisker detectors as I understand you would poke around with the thing until you got acceptable reception. Of course I can imagine trying a new stab at it because it was a shot in the dark and I would get greedy thinking there was a better spot on the crystal. I would assume moving the detector would also detune what it was hooked to. So if the detector gets bumped it probably also means a retune. Todays cell phone equipped kids have no idea what it took to get here. And for that matter I probably underestimate it plenty too.

Brings back memories. I did the exact same thing.

 

[TurtleMeister]

I've been trying to get a metal deposition system put together but had to do a little beautification on this old General Radio Co. W30M Variac that I'm incorporating. Here's a outside and inside (powered & set to 140 volts) view of this 30 amp beauty. :)

View attachment 105393
View attachment 105392

One of the first companies I worked for used a lot of these 30 amp variacs. Except I think ours where manufactured by Superior Electric. When the company shut down I was able to get a few of them along with some power analyzers.

I love your sputter machine. Very nice job with all of these restorations.

 

[dlgoff]

I can imagine trying a new stab at it because it was a shot in the dark and I would get greedy thinking there was a better spot on the crystal.

Reminds me when my old Ham mentor showed me how to modify a crystal's frequency with a lead pencil.

Thanks for sharing and explaining.

 

[davenn]

Reminds me when my old Ham mentor showed me how to modify a crystal's frequency with a lead pencil.

ahhhh yes ... another old trick :)

 

[dlgoff]

Kids love it, it teaches them finger dexterity and curiosity that pay off in later life.

With a little help, like I got from my old Ham mentor, techniques for making things comes also.

 

[dlgoff]

I love your sputter machine. Very nice job with all of these restorations.

I've made lots of tests leading to modifications on the thing. Not all that easy to get good results... Well not yet, but I just received some new caps in the mail for the HV supply from old jim. Thanks a bunch @jim hardy

 

[Averagesupernova]

Reminds me when my old Ham mentor showed me how to modify a crystal's frequency with a lead pencil.

Thanks for sharing and explaining.

I have heard of that but never been in a position to try it.

 

[Baluncore]

I have done it and it works well with the old WW2 crystal holders where the crystals were clamped between metal plates. These days the hermetically sealed crystals makes it difficult. http://www.af4k.com/crystal_holders.htm

If the crystal frequency was too low you polished the plate to reduce the mass and so raise the frequency. If you went too far, you use the pencil on the entire surface, that increased the mass of the crystal and so took the frequency back to where you should have stopped polishing earlier.

It was common to find an initial letter or a digit written on the crystal in pencil, left half a century ago by the previous crystal polisher. I always wonder who that was and what became of them. On average, I think it was a young woman, who later married a returned soldier to generate the baby boomers.