Becoming a mathematician - I am so depressed

[mal4mac]

If math really is your passion, then pursue it until you can't anymore - not because someone tells you that it's not possible, but because you struggle too much with the problems and lose passion for them (if that ever happens at all).

I don't think I struggled "too much" with the problems, but I still lost my passion for mathematics, at around the age of 24, half way through my PhD. But I didn't regret pursuing mathematics, or giving it up, I just found another passion - pursuing easy money, an easy life, and lots of free time to pursue my new passions (reading novels, cycling, socialising...) Mathematics helped with that, numeracy gets you into cushy careers.

You'll get a lot happier if you lose your "I must be Einstein" complex. Lots of people with IQs of a hundred or less are having a great time. I also think you should see a counsellor, CBT and REBT therapies have techniques for attacking the "I must be Einstein" complex. Albert Ellis, the founder of REBT even has a fun name for it - musturbation. The basic idea is that people make themselves very mentally sick by saying they "must be this" or "must be that"", and get a lot better when they drop the "must". Just relax and have fun with your maths, and laugh if you don't get to do a PhD. There's always something you can do to be happy, and being happy is the important thing, not being Einstein.

So, if mathematics really is your passion, then pursue it because it's fun, and stop pursuing it when it becomes not so much fun.

 

[ZeroPivot]

Do you want to be a mathematician, or do you want to say you are a mathematician?

 

[Crake]

I don't think I struggled "too much" with the problems, but I still lost my passion for mathematics, at around the age of 24, half way through my PhD. But I didn't regret pursuing mathematics, or giving it up, I just found another passion - pursuing easy money, an easy life, and lots of free time to pursue my new passions (reading novels, cycling, socialising...) Mathematics helped with that, numeracy gets you into cushy careers.

You'll get a lot happier if you lose your "I must be Einstein" complex. Lots of people with IQs of a hundred or less are having a great time. I also think you should see a counsellor, CBT and REBT therapies have techniques for attacking the "I must be Einstein" complex. Albert Ellis, the founder of REBT even has a fun name for it - musturbation. The basic idea is that people make themselves very mentally sick by saying they "must be this" or "must be that"", and get a lot better when they drop the "must". Just relax and have fun with your maths, and laugh if you don't get to do a PhD. There's always something you can do to be happy, and being happy is the important thing, not being Einstein.

So, if mathematics really is your passion, then pursue it because it's fun, and stop pursuing it when it becomes not so much fun.

I'd be interesting in hearing/knowing about said techniques. Do you, perhaps, have a link?

 

[Kalidor]

Very sound advice, though i doubt the op will take it or even admit to himself he has such issues.

 

[mal4mac]

I'd be interesting in hearing/knowing about said techniques. Do you, perhaps, have a link?

A good book to start with is "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0380810336/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[TheKracken]

I hope you all know that this kid doesn't exist and is someone that made up the thread to see how many people would respond, and shoot. This is a lot of responses.

 

[mal4mac]

It doesn't matter if the kid exists or not. People read novels, why not respond to a fictional character?

 

[arbrixv]

Its widely known across the Psychology and Cognitive Science Community that the standardized IQ test is not able to measure the real potential for scientific achievement. This derives directly from the big true that science understand very very little from the human mind, and as far as it knows it is the most complex thing known by humans in the universe. There might be kind of fundamental mental abilities that humans use everyday on which neuroscience doesn't even have a clue that they exist. Everyone's mind is unique in what it is capable of.

Take care of yourself man. Do not concentrate yourself on delusional thoughts that make you value yourself far less than you are and hold you back from getting what you are capable of. And since you really trust science, you might even want to talk to a good psychologist who can help you become more aware about how your thoughts might be flowing in this situation.
In science we want to perceive and understand the reality and not to feed our delusions far from it.

All the best and good luck.

 

[Crake]

A good book to start with is "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0380810336/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Thank you! I normally don't like/buy self-help books, but I'll give this one a try.

 

[tolove]

Average IQ of PhD holding professors is 120. Quit cha' whinin' smarty pants.

edit: Also, people MUCH worse off than you are doing just fine. There's a blind lady in my physics courses. I don't know how she does it, but she does. She is not someone with a genius IQ either. She asks dumb questions constantly. But she never stops asking them, and eventually gets it. She's amazing, and you should learn something from her.

 

[Crake]

Average IQ of PhD holding professors is 120. Quit cha' whinin' smarty pants.

edit: Also, people MUCH worse off than you are doing just fine. There's a blind lady in my physics courses. I don't know how she does it, but she does. She is not someone with a genius IQ either. She asks dumb questions constantly. But she never stops asking them, and eventually gets it. She's amazing, and you should learn something from her.

Do you have a link that supports your statement? (Average IQ of PhD holding professors is 120).

 

[S. Moger]

I don't think you need any exceptional talents to become good at mathematics. You just need a lot of interest (or patience + pain tolerance), time and practice. But you also have to be able to assess your skills correctly and fairly. If you loose your positive feedback mechanisms that motivate you, you are lost.

I too always had the impression that only the best were taken to PhD-schools but that's completely false. I always thought I wasn't good enough. But logics tell me there are obviously more PhD positions available than there are eligible "IQ 150+" people. Will you get anywhere without IQ 150? Sure, it will help, but not if you don't put a lot of time into your studies. I never studied for a maths exam before university, passed with highest grades in all subjects, got used to not working. Got into university, continued with my old tactics, passed all exams narrowly, which objectively still was good in relative terms as lots of people didn't pass them. However, ultimately, the gap between grades pre- and post-uni made me lose self esteem and finally interest, which made me fail exams, I didn't want to try anymore.

Add to that that the study environment at my uni was unfriendly, it seemed like many failed professors and PhDs just picked on the, initially enthusiastic, students. Students were forced to work day and night to survive the scientifically reasonable but perhaps somewhat sadistic and unfair requirements, and that of course didn't reflect well on the study environment. Other programmes at the uni had easier courses, competed with us, got higher grades easier and were able to go abroad, get well paid jobs, and other benefits because of that, which of course was unjust as they never normalized grades per programme.

I finally underrated my abilities, lost my interest to study (other than to pass my exams, I didn't care about studying the extra chapters for higher grades). It discouraged me from pursuing PhDs in physics and mathematics, even though I know I can manage it, and made me pursue an MD (where I at least have an unusual edge through the physics perspective). Society appreciates medical graduates more than physics graduates as well (even though we all know physics is the real science in this context), the environment is friendier, appreciative even, and I know I won't be unemployed, or wait 10 years for a full time contract, get fired or fooled around with. The backside is that I have tasted the fruit of physics, I know it's the real deal, while medicine, interesting as it is, unfortunately, is more about memory skills (and less hard evidence and deduction).

On the other hand, I know engineers and physicists (PhDs) who work as unskilled labor or in private elementary school classrom like sweat shops. They don't have fancy enough names to get finance jobs through their parents' contacts. Along with arts majors, teachers, talented artists and musicians, I think they are the ones who truly deserve the uttermost respect in society and not the Lamborghini economists, marketing people, venture capitalists, football players, or bubblegum pop singer stars. A lot of talent is put to waste, regardless of IQ or education. Don't let yourself or them waste yours.

 

[tolove]

Do you have a link that supports your statement? (Average IQ of PhD holding professors is 120).

Google search "IQ profession range" lots of links to things. Here's one: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/occupations.aspx

 

[CubicInfinity]

I haven't read every reply, but I wanted to add a little of my own words (if you or anyone ever reads this, considering how the dated this thread is). Everyone has said much of the same things I was thinking. Everyone experiences depression. You actually sound a little like someone I know who does have a depression disorder, supposedly, but I want to stress that being depressed is not the same thing as "having depression" or, a depression disorder. I would avoid medications because they can make things worse. Just be happy for who you are. (Just don't be complacent.) I have a similar "problem" of wanting to either be great or do something great. I may set out to do just that, but I am also trying to discover what it is that I really want and what matters to me when I get down to it all. I am young also (22, currently). I have never taken an IQ test (except for some dumb free one I took on the fly that gave me a low score a long time ago), and I'm considering never taking one. And btw, I've known one person who was "smart" but failed to understand a simple problem with probability after taking calculus. Nonetheless, he will do well in his own field. I am confident of that! The bottom line is not to compare yourself to other people. Love yourself, and even the talent and power that you do possesses and are increasing. Cliche as it is, no one can be you. You don't even have to make a lot of money. Although money is nice and can be used for a lot of good.

 

[ahsanxr]

I haven't read every reply, but I wanted to add a little of my own words (if you or anyone ever reads this, considering how the dated this thread is). Everyone has said much of the same things I was thinking. Everyone experiences depression. You actually sound a little like someone I know who does have a depression disorder, supposedly, but I want to stress that being depressed is not the same thing as "having depression" or, a depression disorder. I would avoid medications because they can make things worse. Just be happy for who you are. (Just don't be complacent.) I have a similar "problem" of wanting to either be great or do something great. I may set out to do just that, but I am also trying to discover what it is that I really want and what matters to me when I get down to it all. I am young also (22, currently). I have never taken an IQ test (except for some dumb free one I took on the fly that gave me a low score a long time ago), and I'm considering never taking one. And btw, I've known one person who was "smart" but failed to understand a simple problem with probability after taking calculus. Nonetheless, he will do well in his own field. I am confident of that! The bottom line is not to compare yourself to other people. Love yourself, and even the talent and power that you do possesses and are increasing. Cliche as it is, no one can be you. You don't even have to make a lot of money. Although money is nice and can be used for a lot of good.

Strong bump dude.

Anyway, point is do math if you enjoy it. Very few people can become Gausses or Eulers, but just be the best you can be. You might not reach greatness, but you'll still have a career that you'll enjoy and you will have contributions you'll be proud of.

 

[LevLandau]

have a nice day. You do not need a high IQ for research in mathematics. You know to start learning with simple books.

 

[amys299]

I apologize if this has been stated already, since I did not go through all eight pages, but it seems to me that your biggest issue isn't not being smart enough, it's the fear of failure (but I really, really, really do recommend you see a professional therapist). Failure is a necessary part of life, especially in the field of STEM. If anything, we learn more from failures and failed experiments than we do from successful ones (at least in physics :P).

People name all these geniuses as if the first thing they did after popping out is make a discovery. That's not how it works, that's never how it works. You think Andrew Wiles took a look at Fermat's last theorem and automatically knew the answer? No, it took Wiles 7 freaking years to solve that problem. People with higher IQ didn't do what Wiles did. He invested his whole life into it because he was passionate about it. Look at Einstein, he couldn't speak until 4 and couldn't read til the age of 7. Noether sucked at academics and didn't touch math until after she taught French and English.

My point is, you're not going to ace it on the first try. No one does. Having failed at something does not make you a failure, and it is not foreshadowing your future as long as you learn from it. I would bet on it that if your passionate enough about math to persevere through the rough parts, and address your mental state, you're going to do just fine in math, even excel beyond your belief. Besides, you get to wake up everyday doing what you love and what's better than that?

 

[jackmell]

I have something to add based on my own experience: the road to the right one is littered on both sides with wrong ones. Embrace this principle and learn to work with it. Hall (a PF member) once said, "you don't just stare at the problem and wait for the answer to pop into your head. Rather, you try things and if they don't work, you try something else." So in my opinion, to be successful in math, one talent you must master is to cultivate a high tolerance for failure: Don't be intimidated by problems. Attack them. Try to solve them even if your initial attempts seem stupid and futile. Try things and be prepared to encounter failures and as you go through the process of attempting solutions which fail, remember all was not in vain: you grow in experience even with the failures. Good cooks try again. :)

 

[mpresic]

You might or might not realize that IQ tests are diagnostic tests used mostly by psychometricians, e.g psychiatrists, psychologists, possibly medical doctors and educators. You mention in your posts that mathematicians have encouraged you for further study. Why take the assessment of psychologists, psychologists, etc over mathematicians in assessing your future in mathematics. IQ tests were never designed to diagnose problems in learning advanced mathematics, or physics or to limit the futures of aspiring professionals.

 

[TheCanadian]

I hope you all know that this kid doesn't exist and is someone that made up the thread to see how many people would respond, and shoot. This is a lot of responses.

Even if the advice here doesn't help the OP, hopefully others that may be struggling can make use of everything that was shared.

 

[Evo]

The Op hasn't been here in a year. Thread closed.