Breaking Down the 2016 POTUS Race Contenders & Issues

[Evo]

It's funny that Trump's campaign is based on trying to discredit Hillary since he has no credibility, IMO, it would take so little effort to take Trump down for all of his shady dealings. What was it that was said at the DNC the other night? Michelle's speech "when they go low, we go high". Go Hillary!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/polit...-obama-speech-democratic-national-convention/

Also, Jim, I need the link to the article that came from please, then we can put it back up.

Thank you!

 

[Evo]

Also, let's stop the mud slinging and leave that to the candidates. Let's discuss the issues, the economy, education, social security, aging infrastructure, you know the issues that are important that actual candidates should be focused on.

 

[jim hardy]

Also, Jim, I need the link to the article that came from please, then we can put it back up.

Thank you!

Okay, no hard feelings if you guys remove it , Lew Rockwell is i understand "out there" sometimes. .....................

I admire a good sense of humor.

Yesterday Pat Buchanan observed at Lew Rockwell (not regarded here as a mainstream source but to offer his observation as my own would be plagiarism) :
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/07/patrick-j-buchanan/will-putin-get-pulitzer/

Will the press cooperate?
...
In 1971, The New York Times published secret documents from the Kennedy-Johnson administration on how America got involved in Vietnam. Goal: Discredit the war the Times had once supported, and undercut the war effort, now that Richard Nixon was president.

The documents, many marked secrets, had been illicitly taken from Defense Department files, copied, and published by the Times.

America’s newspaper of record defended its actions by invoking “the people’s right to know” the secrets of their government.

Well, do not the people have “a right to know” of sordid schemes of DNC operatives to sink a presidential campaign?

...

For publishing stolen Defense Department secrets, the Pentagon Papers, the Times got a Pulitzer Prize.

If the Russians were helpful in bringing to the attention of the American people the anti-democratic business being done at the DNC, perhaps the Russians deserve similar recognition.

By the Times’ standard of 1971, maybe Putin deserves a Pulitzer.

Today it's repeated in Tulsa World, Google news, Dekalb County Dispatch, New Hampshire Union Leader, and scores of fringe sites
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pat+bu...475E6E41D39CBB24AF43D4B67B&first=25&FORM=PORE

Might make mainstream yet !

old jim

 

[Evo]

I'll accept this since it was a broadcast, but you owe me a shrubbery.

 

[jim hardy]

Deal .

 

[axmls]

Legitimate question here: why does the Democratic Party rarely, if ever, talk about the national debt? I just searched both party's official platforms, and there's no mention of the national debt at all in the Democratic Party platform. Certainly many of the Democratic Party's proposals will end up costing more money (is it possible to pay for a free-college plan solely by raising taxes on the rich?). Is the national debt, in reality, actually not something to be concerned with, and that's why they're not mentioning it?

 

[Astronuc]

I don't either party is talking enough about debt reduction.

From the Democratic Party 2016 Platform

Strengthening Management of Federal Government


Democrats understand responsible fiscal stewardship is key to American democracy and to the country’s long-term economic prosperity. We believe that by making those at the top and the largest corporations pay their fair share we can pay for ambitious progressive investments that create good-paying jobs and offer security to working families without adding to the debt. This stands in contrast to Donald Trump, whose plans could add more than $30 trillion to the debt and who casually suggests defaulting on America’s debt, ending more than 200 years in which the full faith and credit of the United States has been sacrosanct.

We will also ensure that new spending and tax cuts are offset so that they do not add to the nation’s debt over time. We will tackle waste, fraud, and abuse to make sure government dollars are spent wisely and efficiently. Democrats believe that we should not be contracting, outsourcing, or privatizing work that is inherently governmental in nature, including postal services, school services, and state and local government services. We are committed to a strong, effective, accountable civil service, delivering the quality public services Americans have every right to expect.

https://www.demconvention.com/wp-co...emocratic-Party-Platform-7.21.16-no-lines.pdf

Seems kind of thin on details, but it certainly looks like increased taxes. I'm not sure where they get that Donald Trump's plans would add more than $30 trillion to the debt.

 

[mheslep]

I don't either party is talking enough about debt reduction.

• Speaker Paul Ryan Discusses Entitlement Reform (May 2016)
• CBO analysis of Ryan's deficit/debt plan, "Roadmap for America's Future", which reduces the 2040 debt to 99% of GDP from 223% of GDP on the current trend.
• Senator Ted Cruz campaign, https://www.tedcruz.org/five-for-freedom-summary/; tax code reform; balanced budget constitutional amendment; elimination of 25 federal organizations.
• GOP 2016 Platform, references federal debt, deficit and budget dozens of times.
• CRFB analysis of Kasich plan to reduce deficits, cutting $2.6T, 2018 - 2025.
• Gov John Kasich pledges to balance the federal budget in eight years as president. Kasich claims in debate that he took "Ohio from an $8B budget hole to $2B surplus."
• Gov Rick Perry, spending caps at 18% of GDP, balanced budget constitutional amendment, cuts for entitlements.

The DNC 2016 platform has many references to student debt, has no reference to the debt incurred over the last 8 years, states that Democrats will not add to the future debt. The term "deficit" does not appear.

Googling for plans to balance the federal budget has lots of hits, none of them from Democrats.

 

[gleem]

US Govt budget deficit, 2016: $620M (up $180M from 2015)

This seems a bit small.

 

[CalcNerd]

Sorry to highjack a thread, but when the national debt issue comes up, I like to provide an excellent link.
.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
.
is a debt clock that monitors nearly all of the costs and revenues of good ole Uncle Sam. It also shows the history of growth if you dig a bit. Has other interesting data on the bottom of the page as well.
.
The national debt is a huuuuge problem (sorry to plagiarize, Donald). It really needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, it will take a decade or perhaps more to pay down in a responsible manner IF WE WERE TO START TODAY. The idea of paying this type of debt off by a single administration in a single term is just simply not feasible short of financial and social upheaval (It is easy to say that as president I will pay it down, but for Ted Cruz to actually do it, was his one redeeming election issue. However presidents don't get to make the budget/spend/save your money, it is your congressmen that do.). Whichever president attacks this monster will likely lose any re-election bid. But this country needs to address this issue and not poke our heads in the sand.

 

[mheslep]

This seems a bit small.

Sorry, B, not M. Fixed earlier.

 

[mheslep]

The idea of paying this type of debt off

Nations States don't need to entirely pay of their debt, ever. What they should do is keep the debt well below ~90% of the Gross National Product, which the US can do by i) balancing the budget in the near term with the current spending and revenue, or ii) kicking economic growth into high gear.

Our main result is that whereas the link between growth and debt seems relatively weak at “normal” debt levels, median growth rates for countries with public debt over roughly 90 percent of GDP are about one percent lower than otherwise;

where one percent of the US GDP is currently a hit of $170B/year.

 

[Dr Transport]

Also, let's stop the mud slinging and leave that to the candidates. Let's discuss the issues, the economy, education, social security, aging infrastructure, you know the issues that are important that actual candidates should be focused on.

Here's a thought, as opposed to funding ObamaCare, put that money into upgrading and fixing our infrastructure (power grid, roads, bridges etc...) that way they'd create a ton of jobs that would provide healthcare for their employees...

 

[Evo]

Here's a thought, as opposed to funding ObamaCare, put that money into upgrading and fixing our infrastructure (power grid, roads, bridges etc...) that way they'd create a ton of jobs that would provide healthcare for their employees...

My daughter can now afford her life saving medication that would have cost $900 a month and put it out of her reach thanks to "Obama Care". THANK YOU OBAMA!

But this thread isn't about Obama, so let's get back to the thread topic.

 

[mheslep]

My daughter can now afford her life saving medication that would have cost $900 a month and put it out of her reach thanks to "Obama Care". THANK YOU OBAMA!

But this thread isn't about Obama, so let's get back to the thread topic.

Government health care plans and performance is one of the larger "issues" of the election; it's very much on topic.

 

[Dr Transport]

Government health care plans and performance is one of the larger "issues" of the election; it's very much on topic.

Yes it is and my thought about putting people to work on infrastructure projects helps on multiple fronts, the construction industry benefits, the healthcare and insurance industries benefits, people get decent paying jobs where they make a difference and would earn a living wage.

 

[Evo]

Government health care plans and performance is one of the larger "issues" of the election; it's very much on topic.

Yes, I agree Health care is, I just don't want it sidetracked about Obama, sorry if that was my misinterpretation.

 

[mheslep]

Yes it is and my thought about putting people to work on infrastructure projects helps on multiple fronts, the construction industry benefits, the healthcare and insurance industries benefits, people get decent paying jobs where they make a difference and would earn a living wage.

Politicians pushing govt projects benefit; I don't know that any of the rest is true, especially on borrowed money. See the broken window fallacy.

 

[Evo]

Please make sure the sources are acceptable, unacceptable sources will be deleted.

 

[mheslep]

Over in the ISIS Syria thread someone posted this clip of now Democratic VP nominee Tim Kaine describing Obama's unapproved Syrian actions as the "height of public immorality". Clinton has announced several intentions to use force in Syria. I'm guessing she could care less about Article I, like Obama.

 

[Astronuc]

George Stephanopoulos awkwardly corrects Donald Trump when he says Putin 'is not going into Ukraine'
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/george-stephanopoulos-awkwardly-corrects-donald-142510918.html

ABC host George Stephanopoulos corrected Donald Trump after the Republican presidential nominee claimed that Russia was "not going to go into Ukraine."

In an interview on ABC's "This Week" that aired Sunday, Trump asserted that Russian President Vladimir Putin was not going to invade Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels — and http://hsrd.yahoo.com/RV=1/RE=1471214117/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5idXNpbmVzc2luc2lkZXIuY29tL3Itc3BlY2lhbC1yZXBvcnQtcnVzc2lhbi1maWdodGVycy1jYXVnaHQtaW4tdWtyYWluZS1jYXN0LWFkcmlmdC1ieS1tb3Njb3ctMjAxNS01AA--/RS=%5EADAOr58LFSDLZ_MF.FjqLHtOF159oY- — have been operating for several years http://hsrd.yahoo.com/RV=1/RE=1471214117/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5iYmMuY29tL25ld3Mvd29ybGQtZXVyb3BlLTMxNzk2MjI2AA--/RS=%5EADA5WPFe.B08SNJuCnaIvkTBUL69rI- .

"He's not going into Ukraine, just so you understand. He's not going to go to Ukraine," Trump said.

"Well, he's already there, isn't he?" Stephanopoulos replied.

Trump responded by simultaneously criticizing the US's decision not to intervene to stop the annexation of Crimea, a former Ukrainian territory seized by Russia in 2014, and noting that many citizens of Crimea were allegedly supportive of Russia's decision to invade.

Facepalm. Well, since Russia (Putin) is already occupying some of Ukrainian territory, I suppose Trump is technically correct that Putin is not going into Ukraine territory (Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014–present)

Trump noted that many citizens of Crimea were allegedly supportive of Russia's decision to invade. Trump may not be aware that the many citizens were ethnic Russians. Of course, Russia and Ukraine used to be part of the Soviet Union, but with the break up, Ukraine went independent with its borders intact until Russia start claiming territory. Besides, Crimea was home to the Tatars, if one wants to get historical.

 

[Evo]

if one wants to get historical.

Or hysterical...

 

[mheslep]

Why would Trump do an interview with former Clinton flunky?

 

[Evo]

Why would Trump do an interview with former Clinton flunky?

Are you trying to say that Stephanopoulos isn't a valid news person? Because that would be really wrong.

I need an answer.

 

[Evo]

Over in the ISIS Syria thread someone posted this clip of now Democratic VP nominee Tim Kaine describing Obama's unapproved Syrian actions as the "height of public immorality". Clinton has announced several intentions to use force in Syria. I'm guessing she could care less about Article I, like Obama.

Seems to be completely against Trump.

 

[rootone]

I am an outsider, but I think Hillary has this in the bag, as long she can remember where she put her bag down.

 

[mheslep]

Are you trying to say that Stephanopoulos isn't a valid news person? Because that would be really wrong.

I need an answer.

First sentence from his wiki:

"George Robert Stephanopoulos (born February 10, 1961) is an American journalist and political operative for the Democratic party"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stephanopoulos

His background includes many years working for ABC as on-air broadcaster.

His background also includes: war room hatchet man in the 1991 Clinton campaign ("you'll never work in Democratic politics again") , subsequent staffer years in the Clinton White House, recent $100k of donations to the Clinton Foundation that led to his recusal from ABC debate moderation, and his "I love you too" self quote to Mrs Clinton in his autobiography.

 

[Astronuc]

A former acting director and deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency Michael Morell on Donald Trump:

“These traits include his obvious need for self-aggrandizement, his overreaction to perceived slights, his tendency to make decisions based on intuition, his refusal to change his views based on new information, his routine carelessness with the facts, his unwillingness to listen to others and his lack of respect for the rule of law”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-cia-c...trump-national-security-threat-135919412.html

Morell endorses Clinton
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/o...the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html

 

[phinds]

“These traits include his obvious need for self-aggrandizement, his overreaction to perceived slights, his tendency to make decisions based on intuition, his refusal to change his views based on new information, his routine carelessness with the facts, his unwillingness to listen to others and his lack of respect for the rule of law”

I heard a specialist in personality disorders on one of the talk shows the other morning explain Trump perfectly. He was careful to stress that he has not examined Trump personally, but also said that Trump has made so many public statements that he feels very confident in his diagnosis.

He says that Trump has a rare, but not unique, personality disorder which usually evolves as a very strong combative response to early childhood feelings of inadequacy, so it indicates a personality that is very strong in some ways. The result of this personality disorder is that the person actually lives in an parallel universe where EVERYTHING he says is true. It has nothing to do with sanity or intelligence or integrity or honesty or lack of any of those, it’s just a natural trait of people with this rare disorder. Trump can’t help but spout opinions on everything. I sympathize so far since I do that, but where he leaves me behind is that as soon as he says anything, in his worldview it immediately becomes reality and he takes any contrary views as being either nonsensical or an attack on his worldview. Further, his deep seated feelings of inadequacy tend to make that usually fall on the side of it being a personal attack against him. So he absolutely DOES believe all his lies and nonsense. It’s amazing that he ever backtracks even slightly on anything.

To me this completely explains Trump. It’s certainly true that people DO attack him, so that’s not all in his head by any stretch, but sometimes the “attacks” do seem to be in his head. Much more importantly though is that his grasp on reality is totally and severely distorted by this personality disorder.

It’s frightening to think that it is still possible that this man could become President.

@Evo I realize that "I heard someone on a talk show" is not much of a source, so I won't be offended if you want to remove this post but it SO explains Trump, to me at least, that I could not help but share it.

 

[jim hardy]

He says that Trump has a rare, but not unique, personality disorder which usually evolves as a very strong combative response to early childhood feelings of inadequacy, so it indicates a personality that is very strong in some ways.

Some call that "Street Smarts" .

..............
Edit by Mod: Aww, very nice article about Hillary, but I am afraid 1993 is pushing the envelope.

 

[phinds]

Some call that "Street Smarts" .

Which completely ignores the rest of what he had to say which is more relevant.

 

[Evo]

I heard a specialist in personality disorders on one of the talk shows the other morning explain Trump perfectly. He was careful to stress that he has not examined Trump personally, but also said that Trump has made so many public statements that he feels very confident in his diagnosis.

We do need a link I had found several the other day but didn't want to rub salt in the wounds.

‘Is Donald Trump plain crazy?’ Big-name writers now questioning GOP nominee’s sanity.

Is Donald Trump insane?

That’s the question being asked in recent days by prominent columnists, both liberal and conservative, about the Republican presidential nominee.

“During the primary season, as Donald Trump’s bizarre outbursts helped him crush the competition, I thought he was being crazy like a fox,” Eugene Robinson wrote in an op-ed (“Is Donald Trump just plain crazy?”) published Tuesday in the Washington Post.

“Now I am increasingly convinced that he’s just plain crazy,” Robinson continued. “I’m serious about that. Leave aside for the moment Trump’s policies, which in my opinion range from the unconstitutional to the un-American to the potentially catastrophic. At this point, it would be irresponsible to ignore the fact that Trump’s grasp on reality appears to be tenuous at best.”

Robinson was not the only newspaper writer to recently ask such a blunt question about Trump’s fitness for office.

“One wonders if Republican leaders have begun to realize that they may have hitched their fate and the fate of their party to a man with a disordered personality,” Robert Kagan, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, wrote in a separate Washington Post editorial on Monday. “We can leave it to the professionals to determine exactly what to call it. Suffice to say that Donald Trump’s response to the assorted speakers at the Democratic National Convention has not been rational.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-sanity-mental-health-000000384.html

 

[Dotini]

A former acting director and deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency Michael Morell on Donald Trump:
“These traits include his obvious need for self-aggrandizement, his overreaction to perceived slights, his tendency to make decisions based on intuition, his refusal to change his views based on new information, his routine carelessness with the facts, his unwillingness to listen to others and his lack of respect for the rule of law”

To the degree that these remarks are accurate, it is all the more astonishing and historic that so many voters have seen fit to make him nominee for president. The system, or establishment, must have done some things very, very wrong in order to provoke such a reaction from the citizenry.

 

[Evo]

To the degree that these remarks are accurate, it is all the more astonishing and historic that so many voters have seen fit to make him nominee for president. The system, or establishment, must have done some things very, very wrong in order to provoke such a reaction from the citizenry.

Or it is a reflection on Americans in general, IMO. No insult intended, I'm just shocked that anyone would think that Trump, of all people, is qualified. The end, I don't intend to argue about it, it would be pointless, but nontheless, these people need to realize the danger Trump represents.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-cia-c...trump-national-security-threat-135919412.html

Very eye opening news video.

Ex-CIA chief backs Clinton, calls Trump national security threat

A former acting director and deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency just publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton and denounced Donald Trump as a threat to national security.

Michael Morell, a 33-year CIA veteran, who is neither a Democrat nor a Republican, has served presidents from both parties and voted for politicians from either side of the aisle. As a government official, he chose to keep his preferences among presidential candidates private until Friday, when he announced his support for Clinton in the New York Times.

Morell — who was with President George W. Bush on Sept. 11 and President Obama when the U.S. took out Osama bin Laden — said he will vote for Clinton in November and do everything he can until then to help her win the election.

“Two strongly held beliefs have brought me to this decision. First, Mrs. Clinton is highly qualified to be commander in chief,” he wrote. “I trust she will deliver on the most important duty of a president — keeping our nation safe. Second, Donald J. Trump is not only unqualified for the job, but he may well pose a threat to our national security.”

 

[phinds]

To the degree that these remarks are accurate, it is all the more astonishing and historic that so many voters have seen fit to make him nominee for president. The system, or establishment, must have done some things very, very wrong in order to provoke such a reaction from the citizenry.

I don't think there is any possible question but what that is the case. Our gridlocked congress is one thing and the way Wall Street bankers brought down the financial system and then not only did not go to jail, most of them walked away with large bonuses makes us look like a 3rd world country. People so are massively fed up with "the system" that they would rather have a lunatic like Trump than more of the same, and he is TERRIFIC at making promises he can't keep (even more so than most politicians, all of whom do it). Sadly, there is a strong trend of isolationism on top of this and some racism as well (although I don't think the majority of Trumps supporters are racists)