Can I call myself a physicist yet?

[Cyrus]

I'm a student of Aerospace Engineering BEng (Hons) at Kingston Uni London. I was just asking as from a previous post you made I didn't think you had a degree from the context of it. But was going to make the point that a person who has worked in the engineering industry without a degree for a number of years, is going to be more of an engineer than myself.

Now I don't and won't consider myself an engineer until graduation. Do you consider yourself an engineer? or do you have another title?

Sorry, I didn't mean to ask you if you were an engineer. I mixed you up with //:phoenix:\\. (You had already said you studied Aero earlier).

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

What makes you an engineer is the degree. That is what I have been saying for the past couple of posts. You don't have a degree, then you are not an engineer.

 

[Cyrus]

What makes you an engineer is the degree. That is what I have been saying for the past couple of posts.

This is wrong. I've already said a several times now exactly *when* you need an official engineering degree.

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, tell me something, when the engineer comes round to your house to fix your boiler do you believe they have a degree? They don't!

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

Actually, it is right. Why do people study to become engineers? That question is all I need to refute your claim saying I am wrong. Either come up with an effective counter-argument instead of, "you're wrong," and, "that is absurd and nonsensical," or stop replying. I have yet to see anything substantiating your claim of makes a person an engineer.

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, are you an engineer?

 

[JasonRox]

This is wrong. I've already said a several times now exactly *when* you need an official engineering degree.

In Canada, you need a professional licence. No professional license and you're aren't an engineer. Done.

Do they have that in the US?

 

[Cyrus]

Actually, it is right. Why do people study to become engineers?

I can't speak for why other people become engineers.

That question is all I need to refute your claim saying I am wrong. Either come up with an effective counter-argument instead of, "you're wrong," and, "that is absurd and nonsensical," or stop replying. I have yet to see anything substantiating your claim of makes a person an engineer.

...I'm talking to a wall.

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, people study for an engineering degree because the course gives a comprehensive understanding in engineering principles (e.g. maths, structural mechanics) and some business features (project management etc.). In my first year I learned about mixing concrete what possible use could I have for that in aerospace engineering?

Are you saying a person who has not followed a degree course, but has acquired the equivelant knowledge perhaps through practical experience which immediately elevates them above a graduate with no experience, is not an engineer?

Those two are equal, only one has a piece of paper saying they finished a course.

Pheonix once again are you an engineer?

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

...I'm talking to a wall.

Likewise...

Pheonix, are you an engineer?

I m studying to become one but I am clearly not an engineer. Once I have a degree I will be as that proves that I have acquired the knowledge.

Are you saying a person who has not followed a degree course, but has acquired the equivelant knowledge perhaps through practical experience which immediately elevates them above a graduate with no experience, is not an engineer?

I won't answer this hypothetical question.

 

[Cyrus]

In Canada, you need a professional licence. No professional license and you're aren't an engineer. Done.

Do they have that in the US?

There are different classifications of engineers in the US, in order of *legal* responsibility:

Unlicensed
Engineer in Training
Professional EngineerThey can all do engineering work, but if anything requires signing only the PE can sign off on it.
That's why a PE gets paid more money (money as good as or more than a PhD), because even a PhD cannot sign off on things unless they also get a PE.

 

[rootX]

Can I call myself a doctor?

I think I am call myself physicist, Phd, biologist, .. without getting into any trouble

 

[Cyrus]

Can I call myself a doctor?

I think I am call myself physicist, Phd, biologist, .. without getting into any trouble

You make good posts from time to time, knock yourself out, Dr.

 

[JasonRox]

There are different classifications of engineers in the US, in order of *legal* responsibility:

Unlicensed
Engineer in Training
Professional Engineer


They can all do engineering work, but if anything requires signing only the PE can sign off on it.
That's why a PE gets paid more money (money as good as or more than a PhD), because even a PhD cannot sign off on things unless they also get a PE.

So if I score an Engineering related job, can I call myself an Engineer? (B. Sc. Mathematics)

Are you going by the title of the job only?

Just curious.

 

[JaredJames]

It isn't hypothetical, it happens. Before aircraft, there were only mechanical engineers and so aerospace engineers were only described as such based on the knowledge gained from research in the field, not from a degree.

 

[rootX]

They can all do engineering work

No, I don't think they can do all kind of engineering work. You need to have an experience i.e. a fresh graduate cannot go and design a complex system. There is a rational behind coming up with that PE.

I didn't reply in the other thread IIRC.. so replying to that too here

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

This place has turned crazy. I am an astrobiologist and tomorrow I'll be a psychotherapist and clinically diagnose this place with a mild delusional disorder.

 

[JaredJames]

No, I don't think they can do all kind of engineering work. You need to have an experience i.e. a fresh graduate cannot go and design a complex system. There is a rational behind coming up with that PE.

Cyrus didnt say all kinds of engineering, just that they can all do engineering work.

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, if you had a good knowledge of astrobiology then yes you could call yourself one.

 

[Cyrus]

So if I score an Engineering related job, can I call myself an Engineer? (B. Sc. Mathematics)

Are you going by the title of the job only?

Just curious.

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

You can say: "Hi, I'm Jason and I'm an engineer!"
Me: "Whats your degree in?"
You: "My formal training was in mathematics"
Me: "Are you licensed?"
You: "No"

 

[Cyrus]

This place has turned crazy. I am an astrobiologist and tomorrow I'll be a psychotherapist and clinically diagnose this place with a mild delusional disorder.

Could you please, stop posting this kind of stuff. It's tiring and old and serves no purpose.

 

[JasonRox]

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

You can say: "Hi, I'm Jason and I'm an engineer!"
Me: "Whats your degree in?"
You: "My formal training was in mathematics"
Me: "Are you licensed?"
You: "No"

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

The good ol' profane use of language on the forums.

It isn't hypothetical, it happens. Before aircraft, there were only mechanical engineers and so aerospace engineers were only described as such based on the knowledge gained from research in the field, not from a degree.

Not saying it isn't true but cite your sources please.

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

Then what am I studying it for? I know I would need some field work and that is one of the requirements so I will get it, but studying is also one of the factors of what makes you an engineer. Not having a degree in the field doesn't make you an engineer. Heard of the word credentials?

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, here is the definition of engineer:

Engineer \En`gi*neer"\, n. [OE. enginer: cf. OF. engignier, F. ing['e]nieur. See Engine, n.]

1. A person skilled in the principles and practice of any branch of engineering. See under Engineering, n.

2. One who manages as engine, particularly a steam engine; an engine driver.

3. One who carries through an enterprise by skillful or artful contrivance; an efficient manager. [Colloq.]

Civil engineer, a person skilled in the science of civil engineering.

Military engineer, one who executes engineering works of a military nature. See under Engineering.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)



Engineer \En`gi*neer"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Engineered; p. pr. & vb. n. Engineering.]

1. To lay out or construct, as an engineer; to perform the work of an engineer on; as, to engineer a road. --J. Hamilton.

2. To use contrivance and effort for; to guide the course of; to manage; as, to engineer a bill through Congress. [Colloq.]At what point does it say degree?

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, you are studying engineering, because the quickest and most effective way to gain the knowledge required to do the work of an engineer is to complete a course on it (in my case 3-5 years). The degree simply shows you have completed said course.

 

[Cyrus]

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

I didn't use the word *Studying* mathematics anywhere. There was a reason why I was *careful* in what I said.

Please be *careful* reading what I *write*.

 

[JasonRox]

I didn't use the word *Studying* mathematics anywhere. There was a reason why I was *careful* in what I said.

Please be *careful* reading what I *write*.

Um... I *agreed* implicitly.

 

[rootX]

Just curious.
.

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

For Mathematicians, because they don't make things that can endanger people lives so there's no need to have any for legal definitions for it. Everyone whose work affects public directly should need a license IMO.

 

[JaredJames]

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.

 

[JasonRox]

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

For Mathematicians, because they don't make things that can endanger people lives so there's no need to have any for legal definitions for it. Everyone whose work affects public directly should need a license IMO.

Exactly, cause I met "engineers" according to Cyrus but I know in Canada the attitude is totally different.

I met people here who do "engineer" type jobs but again some of them will say they are not an "engineer" based on the fact they are not licenced.

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

I am talking about the contextual use, not the definition of an engineer. The popular meaning of what makes person (insert said field). The root meaning was overridden by the singularity of the widespread use of what makes a physicist, therapist, and soldier. As, if you don't have the degree you won't be known as an engineer.

A person skilled in the principles and practice of any branch of engineering.

That heavily implies it.

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.

So you basically agree with me, right? It's just that you disagree with my notion of what makes an actual engineer?

 

[JasonRox]

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.

So, you can graduate and then work at McDonald's afterwards but still call yourself an "engineer"?

That makes no sense to me.

 

[JaredJames]

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

No, we don't have any rules on it. That is why someone who fixes household appliances can call themselves an engineer. In any other profession they would be a technician / service person, but no we have people calling themselves engineers. This is why no one understands how difficult my degree actually is and when I do show them the maths work involved whether it is pure, stats or thermodynamics etc. they are shocked.

 

[JasonRox]

No, we don't have any rules on it. That is why someone who fixes household appliances can call themselves an engineer. In any other profession they would be a technician / service person, but no we have people calling themselves engineers. This is why no one understands how difficult my degree actually is and when I do show them the maths work involved whether it is pure, stats or thermodynamics etc. they are shocked.

Well, they are idiots.

 

[JaredJames]

I am talking about the contextual use, not the definition of an engineer. The popular meaning of what makes person (insert said field). The root meaning was overridden by the singularity of the widespread use of what makes a physicist, therapist, and soldier. As, if you don't have the degree you won't be known as an engineer.

That heavily implies it.

So you basically agree with me, right? It's just that you disagree with my notion of what makes an actual engineer?

I meant it in the sense that I will not have the skill set to do an engineers job until I graduate. But if someone develops the skills required without doing a degree course, it does not mean they are any less of an engineer. It just means they cannot become chartered. If you ask me, these days the only way to get the skills to do an engineering job is to do a degree, but just because you don't do a degree doesn't mean you are less of an engineer than someone with one.