Can I get away with retaking E&M, even if I got a B?

[theoryboi]

I am in my first semester of physics after transferring from engineering, and I arrogantly took E&M instead of the recommended courses, and I am on track to get a B- or a B in the class. I plan to apply to PhD programs in a few years and even with this grade I don't thing a 3.7 or 3.8 is unreasonable given my experiences with other physics classes so far. Plus I was just accepted into two research groups. However, I really like the content and want to understand more intuitively how forces work, not just E&M, which I can get from this if I retake it. This especially applies if I want to do well in graduate E&M eventually. On the other hand, I don't want graduate admissions committees to see my transcript and think ill of my application because I retook a course I in which I received a B. If it'll hurt my chances of getting into grad school I won't retake it, but it was one of my favorite courses and I want to understand the material like the back of my hand, which I think I can do if I retake it. Any advice from people who know how the process works?

 

[Vanadium 50]

arrogantly

I don't thing a 3.7 or 3.8 is unreasonable given my experiences

Hmmmmm.....

While an A is better than a B, a single B is unlikely to be the deciding factor. Whether you can "get away with it" to use your words, depends on your university's policies. Many will not let you retake a B, and pretty much all will list both grades on your transcript.

Also, just as an aside, I do not want someone who tries to see what he can "get away with" in my research group.

You have another risk too - if you are missing any recommended classes, this will provoke the question, "Why was this student retaking E&M and not taking [missing class]".

 

[gleem]

I am in my first semester of physics after transferring from engineering, and I arrogantly took E&M instead of the recommended courses, and I am on track to get a B- or a B in the class.

Perhaps this is a wake-up signal.

I plan to apply to PhD programs in a few years and even with this grade I don't thing a 3.7 or 3.8 is unreasonable given my experiences with other physics classes so far.

Could you elaborate on these experiences which seem to figure greatly in your future?

 

[theoryboi]

Also, just as an aside, I do not want someone who tries to see what he can "get away with" in my research group.

Poor choice of words on my part, but I see your point. Instead of "get away with" I meant "would it be acceptable" to which it seems to not be.

Many will not let you retake a B, and pretty much all will list noth grades on your transcript.

That's fair, Thanks. This is nothing I can't recover from. I just wish I had an excuse to study the material more.

You have another risk too - if you are missing any recommended classes, this will provoke the question, "Why was this student retaking E&M and not taking [missing class]".

I am and will be taking those other courses. I chose to take E&M earlier than recommended but I'm still on track to take every course that I need with room for some electives.

Perhaps this is a wake-up signal.

It is. But physics is worth it. Nothing I've studied is beyond my depth if I give it my all.

Could you elaborate on these experiences which seem to figure greatly in your future?

I switched from engineering to physics pretty late, so I'll be in school for an extra couple years. Nonetheless, I have managed to maintain a 3.9 so far after ~90 or so math and engineering credits, so I know I can do well as a student. After taking physics classes in modern physics, E&M, and astrophysics (not counting 2 semesters of intro physics, in which I got the highest scores) I find myself familiar with this type of challenge. There doesn't feel to be anything especially hard, it's simply new. Calculus used to feel new, hard, and unintuitive, but now I can solve any PDE (at the undergrad level) with non-homogenous source points and boundary conditions without breaking a sweat. I've been in this position before where I've gone from struggling in a subject to the top of the class. It's not easy, but this kind of challenge is something I've done before.

That may not be very convincing for you, but I think it makes a difference.

 

[gleem]

I just wish I had an excuse to study the material more.

There is no excuse for not studying it more on your own if you want to or you need to.

 

[gwnorth]

Is the E&M course you took the only one on offer at the undergrad level at your university? Are you talking about the course that students often take in 2nd year or is this an upper level course?

 

[theoryboi]

Is the E&M course you took the only one on offer at the undergrad level at your university? Are you talking about the course that students often take in 2nd year or is this an upper level course?

Nope, there is a second class. This was E&M I (electro and magnetostatics). I still need to take E&M II, which involves charges in motion. From what I hear the material looks pretty different, so I'm not sure if it'll build upon what I already know or will be completely new.

There is no excuse for not studying it more on your own if you want to or you need to.

Roger. It helps to have a professor to ask questions and point out what I'm doing incorrectly, but I'll be going through griffiths everyday regardless. At some point the intuition will kick in, but for now I just have to practice.

 

[gwnorth]

I think you'd be better served devoting your time and energy to doing better in E&M II rather than repeating a course you've already received a B in. One B is not the end of the world and doing better in the 2nd course may go some way to mitigating your lower mark.

If your school offers an upper division E&M elective that could potentially help as well.

 

[symbolipoint]

I think you'd be better served devoting your time and energy to doing better in E&M II rather than repeating a course you've already received a B in. One B is not the end of the world and doing better in the 2nd course may go some way to mitigating your lower mark.

If your school offers an upper division E&M elective that could potentially help as well.

What gwnorth says seems like great advice.

Here's an idea, which might or might not be permitted:
Say, you lost most or all of your skills and knowledge in Electricity & Magnetism. You tell the department or the admissions and records people this, and ask if you can enroll in that E&M course again. If said is "no", then you do your best to review that material on your own before enrolling in some other E&M course.

 

[romsofia]

I know how you are feeling. I've been there. This happened to me my freshman year of college. I took a proof based abstract algebra course (got a C+) thinking I could handle it. It wasn't the material that got me, but how I presented my knowledge of the material. I didn't know how to write proofs as well as I thought, simple as that. I got my butt kicked, took my licks, and realized I should have just followed the plan, but I really wanted to get my feet wet. I need to solve the mysteries of the universe after all, and group theory seemed so obvious, it's only 4 axioms after all!

Well... the puddle was deeper than I thought and I got soaked. I regretted it, but it made me a more diligent student moving forward with a more realistic understanding of the system I was in. Yes, it sucks that you're going to have to do a few more years of schooling because you switched to physics... but trying to rush it *this* way is not the answer. I had to learn that lesson, you're learning it now, and hopefully we can use our stories to dissuade students from making our mistakes in the future. It sucks now, but it's better to learn this lesson before graduate school. Don't bother to try and take it again, it's just a grade. You didn't fail, you weren't close to failing in an academic way. It's just a personal failure, and you'll experience many more these if you stay in academia, and it's a-okay. Feel the pain, accept the B, and focus on the future. Ya got cocky, happens to the best of us.

Keep studying E+M (you'll see it in graduate school yet again), come here to discuss questions, knock on doors of professors to ask questions, and show your passion in other ways than re-taking a course you passed with a B.

 

[CrysPhys]

What gwnorth says seems like great advice.

Here's an idea, which might or might not be permitted:
Say, you lost most or all of your skills and knowledge in Electricity & Magnetism. You tell the department or the admissions and records people this, and ask if you can enroll in that E&M course again. If said is "no", then you do your best to review that material on your own before enrolling in some other E&M course.

<<Emphasis added.>> Not a plausible argument since the OP is just currently wrapping up the E&M course. And if retaking it were to have value (merely as a hypothetical), they wouldn't want to wait too long.

 

[vela]

If your school offers an upper division E&M elective that could potentially help as well.

It sounds like the course the OP took is an upper-division E&M course. I've never heard of an E&M elective; E&M is typically a required course for a physics degree.

If the OP is so inclined, it wouldn't hurt to sit in on the course the next time it's offered, which is probably allowed, as opposed to trying to retake it, which probably isn't allowed.

 

[theoryboi]

If the OP is so inclined, it wouldn't hurt to sit in on the course the next time it's offered, which is probably allowed, as opposed to trying to retake it, which probably isn't allowed.

Perfect. I didn't consider being able to sit in on the class without retaking it. If allowed, this sounds like the best option to me.

I think you'd be better served devoting your time and energy to doing better in E&M II rather than repeating a course you've already received a B in.

In that case, I'll be looking forward to taking E&M II in the future.

Feel the pain, accept the B, and focus on the future. Ya got cocky, happens to the best of us.

Thanks. It helps to hear from others who have hit road-bumps and made it to the other side. The university bubble tends not to be a very supportive or encouraging place in my experience (including both from my peers and from professors).

 

[gmax137]

Just don't let auditing the EM take time away from your ongoing classes.

 

[gwnorth]

It sounds like the course the OP took is an upper-division E&M course. I've never heard of an E&M elective; E&M is typically a required course for a physics degree.

As an example here's a listing of courses covering E&M material at my son's school. The first and second year courses are mandatory and make up part of the core curriculum for the major. The 4th year course is an optional elective. I'm not sure where the OP's course would fit but I assumed it would be equivalent to the first course in the 2nd year 2 course E&M sequence - E&M 1, but maybe it's more in line with the first year course.

PHYSICS 1xx3 - Introduction to Physics II - simple harmonic motion, waves, interference, electrostatics, magnetostatics, and an introduction to quantum physics.

PHYSICS 2xx3A - Electricity & Magnetism I - Electric and magnetic fields, electric potential, Maxwell’s equations, D.C. circuits.

PHYSICS 2xx3B - Electricity & Magnetism II - Differential form of Maxwell’s equations, A.C. circuits.

PHYSICS 4xx3 - Electromagnetic Theory - Potential theory, electrostatics and magnetostatics in matter, electrodynamics, electromagnetic waves and wave guides, radiation

 

[mathwonk]

Reading your posts I come away with the impression you haven't quite grasped the message from that B, namely that you need to work consistently as hard as you can all the time, to do well enough to be a strong graduate school candidate. Comments like " I just wish I had an excuse to study the material more." or "Nothing I've studied is beyond my depth if I give it my all." are a giveaway that you do not yet understand that graduate level work, and consistent A-level undergraduate work, both require absolute day in and day out commitment.

My advice: don't retake the course, but commit to your current and future work in a serious way.

good luck to you!