Cannot find a comfortable side-sleeping position

[DaveC426913]

TL;DR Summary

I cannot find a comfortable side-sleeping position. Where do you put your shoulder?

I used to sleep on my back, in what I called the Dracula position - hands across chest, ankles crossed.
Gaining some weight has caused me to snore, so now I have to find alternate positions.

Let's say it's close to this:

I tend to roll over even further, like a 45 degree angle, so closer to this:

My pillow is plenty thick enough, but I still cannot figure out what to do with my shoulder. It sticks into the bed and lifts my ribcage off the mattress, and puts my humerus in a very awkward position pinned under my chest.

This is exactly what it feels like (but face down). I can totally relate to this guy:

I am seriously considering cutting a ditch in my mattress to give my shoulder and humerus somewhere to sit. But before go to that extreme, how do the rest of you side-sleepers manage??

I am quite frustrated and quite serious about this; it is costing me hours of good sleep.

I may have to whip up some sketches to make it clear.

 

[marcusl]

This was recommended, though I haven’t tried it myself.
https://medcline.com/products/shoulder-relief-pillow

 

[DaveC426913]

This was recommended, though I haven’t tried it myself.
https://medcline.com/products/shoulder-relief-pillow

Yes, that's an alternate, though I'm not find of lying elevated like that.

Especially since I'll likely continue to switch sides in an effort to keep cool. I'm sure it's symmetrical, so can be used left or right, but flipping while sleeping would be quite a production.

 

[marcusl]

You can accomplish something similar, but not as high, with an extra pillow. Otherwise, a trench in the bed might be your best alternative.

 

[Frabjous]

My shoulder is below the front of the pillow.

 

[DrJohn]

Look at the first colour image you show, and live with it.
Admittedly I have a LOT more practice doing that than you, almost guaranteed, as I am old,
Although I do swap between that image and on my back.

 

[berkeman]

I do as in your image, but with the extra pillow mentioned near my chest to rest my uphill arm on. I alternate between right lateral recumbent and on my back, unless the missus pokes me to roll into left lateral recumbent (in her sexy Roll Over! voice).

 

[DaveC426913]

Look at the first colour image you show, and live with it.

What??

Admittedly I have a LOT more practice doing that than you, almost guaranteed, as I am old,

Old is relative. You are guessing at my age.

 

[DaveC426913]

I do as in your image, but with the extra pillow mentioned near my chest to rest my uphill arm on.

I have taken to using a small pillow to rest my downhill arm - wrist, actually - on.

My left forearm will not lie flat on the mattress without over-twisting my shoulder (aeronautically: a roll); so my hand floats off the mattress a few inches. I could rest it on the head rest or wall, but requires raising my arm too much over my head (aeronautically: pitch).

 

[DaveC426913]

My shoulder is below the front of the pillow.

Yes, but surely your ribcage is elevated off the bed. This puts a lot of pressure on your shoulder, even if you head is supported with a pillow.

 

[berkeman]

I have taken to using a small pillow to rest my downhill arm - wrist, actually - on.

Yes, sorry, I should have mentioned that I rest my downhill forearm on my head pillow.

 

[berkeman]

Yes, sorry, I should have mentioned that I rest my downhill forearm on my head pillow.

Which I should mention can be a problem sometimes, with some dreams. I shoot a lot of basketball hoops, and hence that comes up in my dreams sometimes. If I am in the right lateral recumbent position dreaming that I'm making a long 3-pointer like Steph, I sometimes boink out with my right arm which is resting on my pillow and the missus' pillow. Oops...

 

[DrJohn]

I do as in your image, but with the extra pillow mentioned near my chest to rest my uphill arm on. I alternate between right lateral recumbent and on my back, unless the missus pokes me to roll into left lateral recumbent (in her sexy Roll Over! voice).

View attachment 349817

Gasp !
In my reply, I chose to miss out one of those reasons!

 

[DrJohn]

What??


Old is relative. You are guessing at my age.

I assumed the image of someone in bed was you, so we could comment better.
But I am over 70...
No need to state your age of course. Or you could sleep on the thought of telling us, perhaps.

 

[DaveC426913]

I assumed the image of someone in bed was you, so we could comment better.

Just an inage off the innertoobs.

But I am over 70...
No need to state your age of course. Or you could sleep on the thought of telling us, perhaps.

Well you got me beat by a decade at least.

 

[JT Smith]

Yes, but surely your ribcage is elevated off the bed. This puts a lot of pressure on your shoulder, even if you head is supported with a pillow.

Pressure? Gravity is doing its thing for sure but sleeping the way @Frabjous said feels comfortable to me. I can sleep that way on a hard surface even without a pillow. The simple fact is that we're all shaped differently and wired together differently. My wife wouldn't know what to do if she couldn't sleep on her side for some reason. She can't sleep well on her back.

You have to figure out what works for you. Maybe you need a custom formed mattress. Or perhaps a memory foam mattress would work. Or an old school water bed. Or what about gravity boots? Do you think you could sleep upside down like a bat?

 

[DaveC426913]

Pressure? Gravity is doing its thing for sure but sleeping the way @Frabjous said feels comfortable to me. I can sleep that way on a hard surface even without a pillow.

So, start by lying in your side, 90 degrees from flat. Head on pillow. Hips, shoulders, knees vertically aligned.
Now, bring your top knee forward so it is lying on the mattress. You are lying in the shape of a small 'h'.
This will have the effect of rotating your hip toward the mattress. Your shoulders will follow.
To avoid your gut just sort of hanging there, you will settle into about a 45 degree angle.

But your arm will get increasingly caught underneath your chest. There's nowhere for it to go.

No one else has a problem with this? Huh.

 

[PeroK]

So, start by lying in your side, 90 degrees from flat. Head on pillow. Hips, shoulders, knees vertically aligned.
Now, bring your top knee forward so it is lying on the mattress. You are lying in the shape of a small 'h'.
This will have the effect of rotating your hip toward the mattress. Your shoulders will follow.
To avoid your gut just sort of hanging there, you will settle into about a 45 degree angle.

But your arm will get increasingly caught underneath your chest. There's nowhere for it to go.

No one else has a problem with this? Huh.

I can now sleep in only one position. On my right side with my arms crossed and each hand over the opposite shoulder and my right cheek at the edge of the pillow. My legs are most comfortable stretched next to each other. It's almost face down.

This has been the case for three years since I got arthritis in my left hip.

 

[JT Smith]

So, start by lying in your side, 90 degrees from flat. Head on pillow. Hips, shoulders, knees vertically aligned.
Now, bring your top knee forward so it is lying on the mattress. You are lying in the shape of a small 'h'.
This will have the effect of rotating your hip toward the mattress. Your shoulders will follow.
To avoid your gut just sort of hanging there, you will settle into about a 45 degree angle.

But your arm will get increasingly caught underneath your chest. There's nowhere for it to go.

To start with I don't always bring my top knee forward. Sometimes it's right on top of the bottom knee. Other times it's slightly behind the bottom knee with the top leg partially straightened. Other times it's like you describe.

In any of those cases my upper body is more or less the same. My shoulder is pushed forward and although my hips are sideways I'm kind of lying on the back of my armpit. It sounds uncomfortable but my body just squishes into that shape fine. Even on a hardwood floor.

But really, what difference does it make what I find comfortable? You might as well try to copy a cat for the best sleeping position.

 

[DaveC426913]

To start with I don't always bring my top knee forward. Sometimes it's right on top of the bottom knee.

Yeah, I can do this for a while and it's easy on my torso, but eventually I want no part of my body in contact with another for the purposes of heat dissipation.

I'm kind of lying on the back of my armpit.

Sometimes I can lie on my back at a 45 degree angle, but ultimately i still snore.

But really, what difference does it make what I find comfortable?

I'm hoping for ideas about what else to try. I maybe have a unique body shape but it can't be that unique.

 

[JT Smith]

I would imagine your problem is not uncommon. But there are only so many ways you can orient your body. If you can't find something that works then maybe it's time to look at it from a different perspective, like different types of mattresses or pillows. Or what about trying other ways to prevent snoring?

 

[DaveC426913]

I would imagine your problem is not uncommon.

Exactly my point. I find it hard to believe that this problem does not yet have a solution.

like different types of mattresses or pillows.

Yes, these are part of my repertoire for solutions. I have a thick, stiff pillow to lift my head, a small pillow for my forearm and a memory mattress to support my body while letting my shoulder sink in.

Or what about trying other ways to prevent snoring?

I have been to several overnight sleep studies, and they keep recommending a CPAP. I have tried CPAPs several times, each time lasting 6 months to a year. It may help my snoring, but it does not actually increase the quality or quantity of my restful sleep - in fact, it may be interfering with it - so I have given them up.

 

[berkeman]

I have been to several overnight sleep studies, and they keep recommending a CPAP. I have tried CPAPs several times, each time lasting 6 months to a year. It may help my snoring, but it does not actually increase the quality or quantity of my restful sleep - in fact, it may be interfering with it - so I have given them up.

Have you and your doctor discussed other options like Inspire? I cannot recommend it, but it seems like an option if you're willing to spend big bucks and your current health insurance reimburses for it.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/...device-is-another-option-for-your-sleep-apnea

 

[berkeman]

https://www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/reviews/best-pillow-for-side-sleepers

 

[davenn]

I have been to several overnight sleep studies, and they keep recommending a CPAP. I have tried CPAPs several times, each time lasting 6 months to a year. It may help my snoring, but it does not actually increase the quality or quantity of my restful sleep - in fact, it may be interfering with it - so I have given them up.

yeah, likewise
I have a $2000 CPAP unit sitting by the bed unused in the last 10 years.
Used for around 8 months and yes, it did ease/reduce the snoring considerably, much to the wifes' delight
but I grew to hate it. Like you, it did nothing for my sleeping quality.

I also sleep on my side and over the last few years have been getting a very sore hip on my right side...
the side I sleep on the most. Not wanting to spend upwards of $1000 or so on a decent new matress,
I looked for other ways and purchased a "Mattress Topper". It's a 7cm thick "slab" of memory foam.
It's done more to improve my sleeps than anything else. Cost me around AU$170 for the queen sized one.

Do a search in your local area

cheers
Dave

 

[DaveC426913]

I looked for other ways and purchased a "Mattress Topper". It's a 7cm thick "slab" of memory foam.
It's done more to improve my sleeps than anything else. Cost me around AU$170 for the queen sized one.

Yup. Got it.

 

[BillTre]

How about a water bed?

 

[DaveC426913]

How about a water bed?

Sounds like a formula for sleepless nights. My wife and I sleep no deeper than when on a nice firm mattress* that transmits no motion between us.

* side note: Am I the only one who seems to get the deepest sleep on an unfamiliar mattress, such as the first night in a motel? Once I get used to it my sleep gets lighter, but that first night I tend to sleep like the dead. I tend to attribute it to a very long, active day of travelling, but can't be sure.

 

[JT Smith]

* side note: Am I the only one who seems to get the deepest sleep on an unfamiliar mattress, such as the first night in a motel? Once I get used to it my sleep gets lighter, but that first night I tend to sleep like the dead. I tend to attribute it to a very long, active day of travelling, but can't be sure.

I sleep best in dark, quiet environments. Some hotels are really good in that regard and others are horrible.

More and more hotels have pillow top mattresses which I presume are very popular but I find them intolerably soft. I end up with a sore back. When I'm carrying camping gear I simply use my thin camping mattress on the floors of hotels like that.


Back on point: I think what you need is a zero gravity sleep environment. Get yourself a full time position on the ISS or, if that's not feasible, start your own rocket company. There. Problem solved. Close this thread.

 

[Tom.G]

eventually I want no part of my body in contact with another for the purposes of heat dissipation.

Heat dissipation??
Get a FAN! Even a low-speed, quiet one helps quite a bit... i.e. a 20 inch box fan with speed selection works well.
It does not have to be aimed at you (or her), the increased room air circulation helps alot.

Or if ambient is close to/above body temperature, maybe a room air conditioner.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[DaveC426913]

Heat dissipation??
Get a FAN!

[ TMI ]
That will extract heat from my exposed skin. It won't extract heat from skin-to-skin areas, or from skin-to-sheets areas, which is where the heat (and sweat) builds up.

So the difference between cold skin and hot skin results in a lot of waking up to turn over, or to contort away from the sweaty spots.
[ /TMI ]

I am a bit of a furnace.

But yes, now that we actually live in a house with central A/C, we can turn the temp down at night to like 20C (68F), otherwise we roast. My wife and I both like a cool room with access to lots of covers.

 

[pinball1970]

TL;DR Summary: I cannot find a comfortable side-sleeping position. Where do you put your shoulder?

I used to sleep on my back, in what I called the Dracula position - hands across chest, ankles crossed.
Gaining some weight has caused me to snore, so now I have to find alternate positions.

Let's say it's close to this:
View attachment 349801
I tend to roll over even further, like a 45 degree angle, so closer to this:
View attachment 349803

My pillow is plenty thick enough, but I still cannot figure out what to do with my shoulder. It sticks into the bed and lifts my ribcage off the mattress, and puts my humerus in a very awkward position pinned under my chest.

This is exactly what it feels like (but face down). I can totally relate to this guy:
View attachment 349804

I am seriously considering cutting a ditch in my mattress to give my shoulder and humerus somewhere to sit. But before go to that extreme, how do the rest of you side-sleepers manage??

I am quite frustrated and quite serious about this; it is costing me hours of good sleep.

I may have to whip up some sketches to make it clear.

I sleep with head phones on a lot. This means I cannot sleep on my side completely, I have to get on my side but then rotate my upper body slightly towards the ceiling. So more weight is my middle back than my shoulder. More weight on the back of my head than my ear.

My legs are not completely in foetal position bedside leg is but ceiling facing is stretched out a little.

So the position is halfway between back and side. The pressure not completely on shoulder, ear, hip, knee and ankle.

Have a play around with it, totally on your side then slowly rotate, stretch outside leg and see how your shoulder and spine feel.

 

[Nik_2213]

May I suggest looking at 'bolster-type' pregnancy 'pillows' ? A rolled blanket may work as a 'test bed', such that you can throw an elbow and knee over the resilient roll...

 

[pinball1970]

TMI ]
That will extract heat from my exposed skin. It won't extract heat from skin-to-skin areas, or from skin-to-sheets areas, which is where the heat (and sweat) builds up.

Just on that, thin 100% cotton, keeps you cool via excellent wicking properties of the fibre. Thin T shirt and long boxers.
I have not worn PJs since school.
Same with sheets, some bedding has "cool comfort" claims.

 

[JT Smith]

But yes, now that we actually live in a house with central A/C, we can turn the temp down at night to like 20C (68F), otherwise we roast. My wife and I both like a cool room with access to lots of covers.

Turn it down more. Or add a room A/C that you can really crank low. I always turn hotel A/Cs down to the minimum and some of them go quite low. My favorite sleeping temperature is 10 or 20°F which only happens when I snow camp. Long dark, quiet nights make it even better.