Decline and fall of the Nobel Peace Prize

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In summary: Nobel prize. They should give it for something concrete that Obama has done.In summary, the Nobel Committee has awarded President Barack Obama the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between people. While this is a good thing, I think it was premature to give the prize to him. His achievements are not yet concrete enough.
  • #106
I am saddened at seeing how the current committee behind the Nobel Peace Prize does no longer understand the mandate they have been given by the will of Alfred Nobel, and the accrued tradition from previous committees and award-winners.

Well into the 1980s, and also 1990s, the tradition was alive and well, but in the 2000s, the Committee has veered into a number of positively strange decisions.


If we look at the first decade of the twentieth century, all prizes except for the 1906, went to representatives of organizations devoted to peace, international arbitration and/or de-armament (in addition to Dunant's prize in 1901, for the founding of the Red Cross).

The 1906 was awarded President T. Roosevelt for having effected several peace treaties, in particular that between Russia and Japan.


This pattern of either giving the prize to a "grass-roots" movement that has worked tirelessly for several years, for some important aspect of "peace", or to a politician who has succesfully negotiated some such peace, has been recognizable well into the 1980s and 1990s:

To look at those from the 1980s:
Since the will of Alfred Nobel mentions the importance of working towards the "fraternity of mankind", to award human rights activists (working for EQUAL human rights, that is!) with the Peace Prize can hardly be said to violate the spirit behind the prize:

Universally recognized individuals like Lech Walesa (1983), Desmond Tutu (1984), Elie Wiesel (1986) and the 14th Dalai Lama (1989) appears on the list, along with organizations like:
1981: Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
1985: International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
1988: United Nations Peacekeeping Forces
, while the 1980 and 1982 went to peace activists like Esquivel, Myrdal and Robles.

The only significant politician to be awarded the peace prize was Costa Ricas president Sanchez in 1987, in particular for the peace accords signed in Guatemala that year.


The pattern from the first decade of the Prize's existence is entirely recognizable with that of the 1980s.


In the 1990s, one might well regard it as inauspicious trend that the following politicians were awarded the prize:

Gorbachev (1990), F. W de Klerk (1993 along with the hardly controversial choice Mandela), Arafat (1994) Hume&Trimble (1998)

More traditional prizes were given to Aung San Kyi (1991), Rigoberta Menchu (1992), Pugwash (1995), International campaign for the Ban on Landmines (1997) and Médecins Sans Frontières (1999)

In the 2000s, the old pattern has clearly been breaking up:

In 2000, South Korea's president Kim Dae-jung was awarded the prize for his "sunshine policy", in PARTICULAR for his attempts on rapprochements with..North Korea!

Somehow, to desire accomodation with an extremely oppressive regime like North Korea was now to be hailed as working for "human rights".

In 2004, Wanghari Matthai gets the prize for tree-planting projects in Africa.
Surely a worthy project, but is this really in accordance with the tradition accrued to the Peace Prize??
Similarly with the 2007 prize to Al Gore, and the micro-financing projects from the Grameen Bank in 2006.

The prize in 2005 for the International Atomic Energy Agency seems rather odd, as well.

With the 2009 prize to a President for his ability to generate enthusiasm and high hopes, rather than any concrete results, the Nobel Committee has shown itself determined to play politics, and therefore, self-destruct into irrelevance.


A prize like the Nobel Peace Prize can only maintain its integrity by keeping true to its tradition, and to pick solid candidates of universal recognition for their work.

To play politics, which is the chairman Jagland's STATED justification, namely ("It is now that OBama has changed the climate, it would be "too late" to give it to him in 3 years time) is to seriously misunderstand the legacy he has been appointed to manage.

Since he is STILL an active politician, who just recently was appointed the head of the European Council (not to be confused with the EU), he has drawn serious criticism from the opposition that he cannot have this double role.

Hopefully, he will be pushed out of the Nobel committe, but since his political pupil, Jens Stoltenberg, is now the prime minister in a simple majority cabinet, it is not very likely.

The official 1901-2008 list of winners can be found here, with links to biographies, presentation speeches, etc:
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/index.html
 
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  • #107


Nobel Peace award stuns even O aides
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/nobel_peace_award_stuns_even_aides_Yve8xmY1IsSd2Au9azigJJ
The 2009 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded yesterday to President Obama in a stunning choice that left much of the world wondering why the committee chose to bestow the honor on the new president.

The predawn announcement from Oslo, Norway, even shocked the White House.

"It's not April 1, is it?" one incredulous presidential aide said when told of the Norwegian Nobel Committee's decision by an ABC News correspondent.
. . . .
The president said he was "surprised and humbled," and conceded that the critics had a point.

"I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many transformative figures that have been honored by this prize," he said.

"I will accept this award as a call to action, a call for all nations to confront the challenges of the 21st century."
. . . .
So it seems Obama will accept the award. I'm interested to see 'how he leads the nation in confronting the challenges of the 21st century.'

Analysis: A great prize, but will it help goals?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091010/ap_on_an/us_obama_nobel_analysis
Ummm -what goals?

Are these really the goals - rid the world of nuclear weapons, to forge Mideast peace and stabilize Afghanistan, to halt climate change?
AP said:
The widespread reaction, however, when the stunning news hit the nation was: For what?
Yep.
 
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  • #108
Here is an interesting observation in an AP analysis:

Comments from Nobel committee members revealed that they fully intended to encourage, not reward. Consider this: The nomination deadline was only 12 days after Obama first entered the Oval Office. It's an enduring myth that the prize is only about accomplishment — it actually was created as much to supply momentum for peace as to celebrate it.

Indeed, with a leftist slant, the five-member committee was applauding Obama as much for what he's not — his predecessor. Former President George W. Bush was much reviled overseas for "cowboy diplomacy," the Iraq war and his snubbing of European priorities such as global warming.
. . . .
"I hope it will help him," Nobel committee chairman Thorbjoern Jagland said of the award. "Obama is the right man at the right time, and that's why we want to enhance his efforts."
Ref: Analysis: A great prize, but will it help goals?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091010/ap_on_an/us_obama_nobel_analysis


I think it extraordinarily bad precedent to award the prize in hopes of future action that may or may not occur or be successful. Everyone should be working towards the "fraternity of humanity", but certainly some work harder at it than others, even putting their lives on the line to establish peace or justice or goodwill . . . .
 
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  • #109
This is the work of Mr. Jagland, who not only was appointed to the Comittee this year, but was straight ahead made Chairman (VERY unusual in the history of the Comittee).

While the comittee members generally have been politicians, they have tended to be RETIRED politicians, or who have primarily made their names outside of politics.
(In the 50's the chairman was Gunnar Jahn, a top-notch economist, and in the 1990's, Francis Sejersted, primarily known as a professional historian).

Thus, the prize has been unfortunately politicized, and the strong ties Mr. Jagland has with our current Prime Minister shows that the Labour Party has descended to the level of augmenting its own prestige by "forcing" Mr. Obama to come to Oslo by awarding him the Nobel Prize and make the hosts proud of themselves..
 
  • #110
These threads have been moving far too fast for me to make much of a useful contribution, but I was also surprised by the physics prize being awarded for decades-old inventions.
 
  • #111
Jimmy Carter is an interesting case too:
Asked if the selection of the former president was a criticism of Bush, Gunnar Berge, head of the Nobel committee, said: "With the position Carter has taken on this, it can and must also be seen as criticism of the line the current U.S. administration has taken on Iraq."
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/11/carter.nobel/index.html
 
  • #112
russ_watters said:
These threads have been moving far too fast for me to make much of a useful contribution, but I was also surprised by the physics prize being awarded for decades-old inventions.

The Peace Prize is, in accordance with the will of Alfred Nobel, to be awarded by a committee of 5 members appointed on six-year terms by the Norwegian Parliament, and is not in any way institutionally related to the Swedish Academy that deals out the other prizes.
 
  • #114
AP said:
Comments from Nobel committee members revealed that they fully intended to encourage, not reward. Consider this: The nomination deadline was only 12 days after Obama first entered the Oval Office. It's an enduring myth that the prize is only about accomplishment — it actually was created as much to supply momentum for peace as to celebrate it.
This seems a bit silly. I am quite certain that a major reason for the prize is to encourage but I have always seen it as encouraging further work by someone who has shown a capacity to accomplish their aims.
edit: They may as well give one to Kim Jong Il to encourage him to not be a petty dictator.

I was a bit surprised by this but not much really. So many people seem to be truly "taken" with the man. I like him myself. Things like this though just seem to reinforce the 'messiah' image that Rush and the like attribute to Obama. It even made me think of the people who think that he is the anti-christ who will supposedly be loved by all the world. Maybe I should start building a shelter before 2012 gets here.


Nice title by the way Arildno. :wink:
 
  • #115
TheStatutoryApe said:
I am quite certain that a major reason for the prize is to encourage but I have always seen it as encouraging further work by someone who has shown a capacity to accomplish their aims.
I am afraid with logic such as encouraging further or rather future work, one might imagine that the Peace Prize could be awarded Osama bin Laden and/or al Qaida if they state that they have decided 'not to attack' the US or other nations/peoples. :rolleyes:

I'd like to see bin Laden and al Qaida (and Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas, . . . . ) disarm and renounce violence - but I'm not holding my breath.
 
  • #116
arildno said:
The Peace Prize is, in accordance with the will of Alfred Nobel, to be awarded by a committee of 5 members appointed on six-year terms by the Norwegian Parliament, and is not in any way institutionally related to the Swedish Academy that deals out the other prizes.

Yeah, but Nobel willed that his other prizes(including the one for Physics) should be awarded within a year of discovery. However, the committees have disobeyed this rule only awarding the prize to those scientists with noncontroversial contributions to enhance their own "prestige" instead of those scientists ,that actually deserve it, sooner.
 
  • #117
Pinu7 said:
Yeah, but Nobel willed that his other prizes(including the one for Physics) should be awarded within a year of discovery. However, the committees have disobeyed this rule only awarding the prize to those scientists with noncontroversial contributions to enhance their own "prestige" instead of those scientists ,that actually deserve it, sooner.

Having looked a bit, I found the following excerpt of the will here:
The whole of my remaining realizable estate shall be dealt with in the following way: the capital, invested in safe securities by my executors, shall constitute a fund, the interest on which shall be annually distributed in the form of prizes to those who, during the preceding year, shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind.
http://nobelprize.org/alfred_nobel/will/short_testamente.html

This holds for all prize winners, including th Peace Prize.

That the one-year limit is not very practical is quite another matter.
 
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  • #118
russ_watters said:
Jimmy Carter is an interesting case too:

Asked if the selection of the former president was a criticism of Bush, Gunnar Berge, head of the Nobel committee, said: "With the position Carter has taken on this, it can and must also be seen as criticism of the line the current U.S. administration has taken on Iraq."

I remember that. I also remember thinking at the time that Carter had every right to be furious and to tell the Nobel committee where they could stick their prize, but he's too much the gentleman for that. Just look at it from his perspective: "We don't really think you've earned this on your own, but we wanted to use your prize as a method of political criticism directed at someone else."
 
  • #119
I've seldom seen a Nobel price decision so warmly embraced by both right wing
and left wing world leaders alike:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2385339&postcount=52

So where is all the decline and fall?The decision is simply a reinforcements of the man's ideas and attitudes which
made a change for the better in the network of global political relationships.
Apparently they simply like it, agree with it and see him as a positive factor.

What makes me happy is the reaction of all these politicians and that again
gives me a bit of hope and it reassures me that the decision was right.
The Nobel price as a support, or "call to action", being embraced by global
leadership means that it's embraced as a "call to action" by them all and for
them all and that is what makes me happy.

So, and now you can all go on with the nitpicking...Regards, Hans
 
  • #120
He hasn't done anything as yet, Hans.

That is the trouble.

The "improved climate" obamamaniacs blather about is their own sense of empowerment, i.e, it is an expression of their personal fantasies, not of realities forged by Mr. Obama.

Furthermore, what else could leaders of countries like Angel Merkel do than congratulate Mr. Obama?

Should they have said "he didn't deserve it"?

Heard about..diplomatic repercussions?


This is just like the fairy tale by H.C Andersen, "The emperor's new clothes":

All the courtiers and responsible adults clap their hands admiringly, praising the fine, almost translucent qualities of the emperor's new clothing.

Only the little child behaves irresponsibly, namely by shouting out: "Why is the emperor walking about nude??"
 
  • #121
arildno said:
He hasn't done anything as yet, Hans.
That is your appreciation, not the one of the people you criticize but who, as a matter of fact, attributed this prize.

Again, I am fascinated how people forget. The human mind adapts so easily to new paradigms. It is more than about time for politicians all over the world, not only in the US but also in Europe and everywhere else, to go back from the politics of fear to the politics of hope. I found it interesting that the very same week, one of the most popular video is a BBC documentary on the "politics of nightmares".

This being said, the recipient himself commented quite appropriately on his prize.
 
  • #122
Count Iblis said:
Hans de Vries said:

Yoiu forgot to include the reaction of Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican National Committee. :biggrin:

And http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,563503,00.html":

RUSH LIMBAUGH said:
Gore, Carter, Obama, soon Bill Clinton. You see a pattern here, folks? Liberal sellouts! Liberal sellouts get this prize. George Bush liberates 50 million Muslims, Ronald Reagan liberates hundreds of millions of Europeans, saves parts of Latin America. Any awards? No, just derision. Obama gives speeches trashing his own country -- and he gets a prize for it.

IMHO, if Limbaugh and the Taliban are on the same page, I'm all for Obama getting the prize.

Of course, I went over to http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2009/10/2009109152410715115.html" to see what they had to say and found the quote by Ahmadinejad's aide:

An aide to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
the award should prompt Obama to begin to end injustice in the world.

While in the side column, a headline reads:
Death sentences for Iran protesters

Anyone want to wager how long this young lady would have lived if she'd tried this in Iran with a picture of the grand Ayatollah?

539w.jpg


Oddly enough, the best explanation, and why I support the decision of Obama receiving the prize, was from the same web page as the Rush comment, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,563503,00.html"

Doug Brinkley said:
But I think Obama's is unusual in how young he is. He's a 48-year-old man. And I thought about it some today, and I think you have to really think about it more in the terms of Martin Luther King. He won a Nobel Peace Prize at 35 years old, right in 1964, before the historic Civil Rights legislation of '65. And King was at that point 35. He had his whole career ahead of him. So it was kind of an award to encourage King to continue fighting for Civil Rights.

And I think Barack Obama's is to encourage him pushing, particularly as the Nobel committee mentioned, to abolish classifications of nuclear weapons and to continue the Cairo speech, where he's seeming to put an olive branch out between Christians and Israel and the Muslim world.

Keep pushing Mr. President. And congratulations.

Om
 
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  • #123
to go back from the politics of fear to the politics of hope.
Not as long as the real culprits behind "the politics of nightmare" are as busy plotting destruction and acts of terrorism as they've always been.

To shut your eyes against that reality is to commit suicide.
 
  • #124
OmCheeto said:
And http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,563503,00.html":
IMHO, if Limbaugh and the Taliban are on the same page, I'm all for Obama getting the prize.

Of course, I went over to http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2009/10/2009109152410715115.html" to see what they had to say and found the quote by Ahmadinejad's aide:
While in the side column, a headline reads:
Anyone want to wager how long this young lady would have lived if she'd tried this in Iran with a picture of the grand Ayatollah?

539w.jpg


Oddly enough, the best explanation, and why I support the decision of Obama receiving the prize, was from the same web page as the Rush comment, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,563503,00.html"

Keep pushing Mr. President. And congratulations.
Om

How does making this about Rush Limbaugh (comparing Rush to the Taliban?:smile:), Fox news, and a woman with a sign demonstrate that Obama deserves to receive the award at this time? If anything, the Ahmadinejad comments demonstrates the problems this award will cause Obama in the future - you might do better to think of it as a ring in his nose.
 
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  • #125
arildno said:
Furthermore, what else could leaders of countries like Angel Merkel do than congratulate Mr. Obama?

Should they have said "he didn't deserve it"?

Heard about..diplomatic repercussions?

Ok, the comments then of German right wing leader Angela Merkel as an example:

ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR

I would like to congratulate President Obama on the award of the Nobel Peace Prize.
In a short time he has established a new tone, creating a willingness for dialogue
and I think we all should support him to make peace in this world possible. There is
a lot do but a window of opportunity has been opened. His advocacy of a world free
of nuclear arms is an aim we all need to make real in the next few years. Again,
congratulations on this award and it is certainly an incentive for the American
president - but also for us all - to help achieve this aim.
She literally says (very explicitly) what I'm talking about. This has nothing
to do with congratulations out of fear for diplomatic repercussions. and yes,
I do read between the lines about this specific subject, don't worry.Regards, Hans
 
  • #126
arildno said:
Not as long as the real culprits behind "the politics of nightmare" are as busy plotting destruction and acts of terrorism as they've always been.

To shut your eyes against that reality is to commit suicide.
There is a vicious circle and a virtuous circle. There was a time when both sides were religious fanatics. The proper way to fight religious fanatics begins with not using qualifiers such as "good" and "evil".
 
  • #127
And why should the Peace Prize be misused to give overambitious Norwegian politicians the feeling of affecting current world policy??
 
  • #128


WhoWee said:
How does making this about Rush Limbaugh (comparing Rush to the Taliban?:smile:),
They are the only two recognizable entities which opposed the vote. Everyone else just couldn't understand it. Including myself.
, Fox news,
I've never been a fan of Fox News, and found it ironic that they should post anything so blatantly pro-Obama. Perhaps they are fair and balanced, but we never realized it because no one can get past the 3 minutes of Rush's hate speak.
and a woman with a sign demonstrate
Points out that Ahmadinejad is a hypocrite.
that Obama deserves to receive the award at this time?
As I said, Brinkley's comment swayed me to my decision.
If anything, the Ahmadinejad comments demonstrates the problems this award will cause Obama in the future - you might do better to think of it as a ring in his nose.
No it doesn't. It just shows Nejad to be a hypocrite. He needs to clean up his own house before telling Barack what to do.
If anything, the award, and the support of major world leaders, gives Obama the go ahead with his diabolical plans to create a better world.

ring in his nose, my a**...
 
  • #129


When I went to the capital I saw a protestor standing on the street corner with a picture of Obama like Hitler. I called him a Jackass to his face and walked away. What a disrespectful moron.
 
  • #130


To compare Rush Limbaugh to the Tali ban simply because they are both happen to think that Obama should not have gotten the award is ridiculous. Over sixty percent of the world seems to think its too early, but because Limbaugh said it out loud and he is on radio they must be in league. Don't worry though Al Jazeera will set it all right. They certainly won't try and push any particular bias agenda.
 
  • #131
Hans de Vries said:
I've seldom seen a Nobel price decision so warmly embraced by both right wing
and left wing world leaders alike:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2385339&postcount=52
Which of those are right wing...?
So where is all the decline and fall?
What does that list of world leaders' comments have to do with whether there is a "decline and fall"?
 
  • #132
Vanadium 50 said:
I remember that. I also remember thinking at the time that Carter had every right to be furious and to tell the Nobel committee where they could stick their prize, but he's too much the gentleman for that. Just look at it from his perspective: "We don't really think you've earned this on your own, but we wanted to use your prize as a method of political criticism directed at someone else."
You like Carter - I don't. To me, I wouldn't expect him to be furious, nor would I consider him being a "gentleman" for accepting an award that amounts to a mutual back-scratch.
 
  • #133
OmCheeto said:
They are the only two recognizable entities which opposed the vote. Everyone else just couldn't understand it.
You're kidding, right?

Of course world leaders are mostly going to congratulate him - they have to, it's politics! But commentators from all sides are coming out of the woodwork in saying it was premature. You don't need to read Rush Limbaugh to find it - I bet you can find prominently on every major news source! Try CNN:
Praise and skepticism greet Obama's Nobel Peace Prize
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/09/obama.nobel.international.reaction/index.html

USA Today
There was also some non-partisan perplexity from political analysts who wondered how a leader in office less than a year could have won one of the world's most prestigious prizes.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-10-09-obama-nobel-reaction_N.htm

And for many, I suspect "couldn't understand it" is just a soft way of saying it wasn't right.

Heck, Obama doesn't even believe he deserved it! [CBS News:]
Let me be clear, I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/09/politics/main5374237.shtml?tag=stack

Don't worry, though: I'm sure there will be plenty of polls asking if people believe he deserved it, so we can find out for sure what the general reaction was.
 
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  • #134


Pattonias said:
To compare Rush Limbaugh to the Tali ban simply because they are both happen to think that Obama should not have gotten the award is ridiculous.
I suppose, but I didn't set out to make the comparison. My researching of world opinion simply pointed this fact out.
Over sixty percent of the world seems to think its too early
Even this http://media.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzJjMDM0ODEwZjZkOWZkN2ExNmYyYzIyMGQxYTQ2NmQ=" :

Lech Walesa said:
Who, Obama? So fast? Too fast — he hasn't had the time to do anything yet,
I suppose Lech is the only person on the planet actually qualified to say such a thing.

, but because Limbaugh said it out loud and he is on radio they must be in league.
Nope. But pointing out faux alliance's can be fun.
Don't worry though Al Jazeera will set it all right. They certainly won't try and push any particular bias agenda.
That's what I've surprisingly come to the determination of, that they don't.
 
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  • #135


russ_watters said:
You're kidding, right?
No. But I've not heard what Kim Jong Il said about it. So there might be 3 vocal opponents.
And then there's http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1929393,00.html" . They didn't like it: 4.

I suppose I was a bit presumptuous saying no one understood the decision. I certainly didn't understand it. But it makes sense to me now.
 
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  • #136


russ_watters said:
Of course world leaders are mostly going to congratulate him - they have to, it's politics!
And that's an unfortunate thing. There should be repercussions for our elected representatives to go along with this farce.
 
  • #137


russ_watters said:
Don't worry, though: I'm sure there will be plenty of polls asking if people believe he deserved it, so we can find out for sure what the general reaction was.

Ugh. I do not have time to read all 6,789,651,131 Tom, Dick, and Harry's opinions on the matter. I was supposed to be at the coast an hour ago. Please have someone have the graphs and pie charts ready when I get back tomorrow. Ciao.
 
  • #138
russ_watters said:
Which of those are right wing...?

you can classify as right-wing:

NATO SECRETARY GENERAL ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN
FRENCH PRESIDENT NICOLAS SARKOZY
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR


and as left wing:

MIKHAIL GORBACHEV, FORMER SOVIET LEADER AND NOBEL PRIZE WINNER
YUKIO HATOYAMA, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER


Regards, Hans
 
  • #139
you can classify as right-wing:

NATO SECRETARY GENERAL ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN
FRENCH PRESIDENT NICOLAS SARKOZY
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR

Why?

Because everyone you speak to says so, Hans?

Do you even have a criterion to distinguish between "right-wing" and "left-wing"?
 
  • #140
The views of most European rightwingers are more similar to US Democrats than Republicans.
 

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