Do You Know Why Trump is Popular?

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In summary, Trump's popularity among US conservatives is baffling to many people. He is the only one with name recognition and a serious high profile, and the others split the more moderate vote and Trump gets a large majority of the more right wing. Trump's popularity could cause the GOP to lose the Presidential election if Hillary is beatable, but there is a real possibility of him winning the nomination.
  • #281
Jeff Rosenbury said:
I like Trump because I think he is a bull in a china shop. IMO our political system is dysfunctional and I think Trump is the best candidate to destroy the current order. No, I don't think it's intentional on his part.

I think he will step on enough toes in Washington that both parties will unite to tear him down, then fix the some of the problems so they don't have to put up with his ilk again. O.K. it's more of a hope than a prediction.

Hope and change baby, hope and change.

The only problem is that this is our china shop, and "messing up the system" is hardly what I'd consider a good platform, especially when it's coming from someone who has flip-flopped on his views harder than anyone I've ever seen--just in time to run for the Republican nomination. Bozo the Clown would also destroy the current order, but no one's rushing to elect him.
 
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  • #282
axmls said:
The only problem is that this is our china shop, and "messing up the system" is hardly what I'd consider a good platform, especially when it's coming from someone who has flip-flopped on his views harder than anyone I've ever seen--just in time to run for the Republican nomination. Bozo the Clown would also destroy the current order, but no one's rushing to elect him.
Sorry, I didn't know Bozo was running. Perhaps I should vote for him instead?

BTW, I don't feel it's my china shop. Perhaps that's part of the problem?
 
  • #283
Though I wouldn't vote for Trump for that reason, I think there is merit in the "bull in a China shop idea":
Parties die. The Whigs died because they could not bring themselves to stand against the Democratic Party that overwhelmingly supported or, at least, tolerated slavery in the South and its extension into the territories, thereby threatening the North. So a new Republican Party very quickly arose to replace it. Now the national GOP establishment’s failure to listen to the people is on the verge of giving us Donald Trump. If it does, it deserves to be replaced by a party that puts the Constitution first and politics second.

It is (almost) time for an American Constitution Party.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...y-elections-2016-third-party-column/81102918/

I'm not exactly sure what he means by a "Constitution Party", but the idea of the Republican Party imploding and being reborn as something else certainly appeals to me. And I get the impression most people on PF dislike their parties and might support implosion and rebuilding into something better. I don't think it can happen in the course of nine months, but it would be great/historic!
 
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  • #284
WWGD said:
no need to refer to subconscious reactions to explain these positions.

?
How else to understand such aberrant behavior ? Mere honest mention of issues provokes irrational, virulent ad-hominem invective, rife with mis-quotes and exaggeration..

Small wonder so many plain folks are embracing this sentiment
Trump_Lion.jpg
see post 267

question was 'Do you understand why is Trump so popular. "
I do.
"Lying politician" having become the redundancy it is
somebody who breaks step from the platitudes and whose body language conveys openness is going to appeal to lots of folks.

That's why Trump is so popular. I think it is that simple.
 
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  • #285
jim hardy said:
?
How else to understand such aberrant behavior ? Mere honest mention of issues provokes irrational, virulent ad-hominem invective, rife with mis-quotes and exaggeration..

Small wonder so many plain folks are embracing this sentiment
View attachment 96660see post 267

question was 'Do you understand why is Trump so popular. "
I do.
"Lying politician" having become the redundancy it is
somebody who breaks step from the platitudes and whose body language conveys openness is going to appeal to lots of folks.

That's why Trump is so popular. I think it is that simple.

So Trump does not lie? I don't endorse the status quo, I just don't think Trump is really better. Different is necessary but not sufficient. And when Trump starts saying what he's said, he gets the same in kind. Press is unfair? Only want ratings? No kidding. Need to find better ways of dealing with it. And re over the top, it was your quote above that referred to comparisons with Hitler.
 
  • #286
WWGD said:
And re over the top, it was your quote above that referred to comparisons with Hitler.
All i know is what i read in the news.


Opinion: The problem with comparing Trump to Hitler
11/30/15 07:09 PM

3 save share group 110
By http://www.msnbc.com/byline/matthew-rozsa
Pundits and candidates alike are now accusing Donald Trump of being a fascist or neo-Nazi. Some are even comparing him to Adolf Hitler.
 
  • #287
jim hardy said:
Bile ?
Bile?
Yes, bile. Some scatological language, some bile.

Trump rallies in NH:
.."You can tell them to go f**k themselves! Because they let you down, and they left!"
We're going to knock the sh!t out of ISIS
...I would bomb the sh!t out of them..
She [crowd member] said he's [Ted Cruz] a p&ssy
“We can’t have a guy who stands in the middle of the Senate floor and every other senator thinks he’s a whack job, right? You have to make deals.
“And Ted can’t get along with anybody. He’s a nasty person.”

...You're not going to raise that f$ckin' price...

Dec 2015 rally on Clinton
...She got schl*nged...

2011 speech in Las Vegas, on China
...Listen you m@therf*ckers, we're going to tax you 25 percent...

On former POW McCain:
...I like people who weren't captured...

2006 about Rosie O'Donnell:
...I'd look her right in the fat ugly face of hers...
http://www.examiner.com/article/don...-rally-you-can-tell-them-to-go-f-k-themselves
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-disgusting/
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/04/trump_to_china_listen_you_moth.html
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trump-calls-ted-cruz-whack-job-36514010
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/tru...-as-feud-deepens-one-week-before-iowa-caucus/
 
  • #288
jim hardy said:
Bile ?
Bile? Most of what i see is directed from the GOP good old boy network toward Trump. Networks are glad to air it..
Trump just throws it back in their face.

I liked this synopsis of the campaign environment, by one Jeff Nyquist:
The TV ads here in Northeast Arkansas are increasingly hyperbolic and desperate. I never saw a campaign season like this.

Your quote, of a Trump defender also makes references to Hitler and WW2. But, as many have said, Trump may bring about the downfall of the two rotting parties, and maybe their rebirth in a stronger form.
 
  • #289
And mud was slung ... :sleep:
 
  • #290
russ_watters said:
You are completely - I mean totally - missing the point of Trump's statement and the issue he's discussing. Trump wants to end the practice of automatic citizenship for the children of illegal immigrants:

What about tourists? More Chinese are traveling to the US specifically to give birth. http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/08/news/china-birth-tourism/
 
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  • #291
Regarding the issues, particularly matters like 'bring jobs home or back to America', how exactly would Trump propose to do that.

I heard Chris Collins tonight talk about jobs that China stole. China didn't steal jobs, they simply convinced US corporations to use their much less expensive labor and materials. How would Trump convince US companies to bring jobs back to the US? Tax breaks? No corporate taxes? Reduce minimum wage to levels equivalent to China? Rescind ACA? Curtail or eliminate SS and Medicare/Medicaid?

How will he make America great?

Collins mentioned that Trump will form the best Cabinet ever. With whom? Wheelers and dealers? Negotiators?

I really like to know how he will make Christianity great again. Wave his hands?

I'm curious about the thinking of Trump supporters.
 
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  • #292
Astronuc said:
Regarding the issues, particularly matters like 'bring jobs home or back to America', how exactly would Trump propose to do that.

I heard Chris Collins tonight talk about jobs that China stole. China didn't steal jobs, they simply convinced US corporations to use their much less expensive labor and materials. How would Trump convince US companies to bring jobs back to the US? Tax breaks? No corporate taxes?
Primarily by reducing or eliminating corporate taxes. Ours are among the highest in the world and the cause-effect relationship is very clear:
Pfizer http://fortune.com/fortune500/pfizer-56/ 1.25% says its proposed merger, which it announced on Monday, will take its tax rate down from 23.5% to between 17% to 18% by the first full year after closing, which will likely be in 2017. Based on Pfizer’s math, the drug company will save about $1.2 billion in taxes that year. Not bad. (Allergan, because it is already based in Ireland, won’t see much of a difference in its tax bill.) But at least one expert thinks Pfizer’s actual savings in the first year after its combination with Allergan http://fortune.com/company/agn/ 2.00% could be nearly triple that, or $3.3 billion a year.
http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/pfizer-allergan-taxes/

High corporate taxes encourage American companies to move overseas.

Ironically, Chinese labor comes here to work in big pharma (and pay taxes)...I suppose they'll also follow the company to Ireland.
 
  • #293
russ_watters said:
Ours are among the highest in the world and the cause-effect relationship is very clear:
While the tax rates are high - http://taxfoundation.org/article/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2014

Companies apparently find ways to reduce tax liability and in some cases get tax rebates and pay very low rates already.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2015/04/fifteen_of_many_reasons_why_we_need_corporate_tax_reform.php
 
  • #294
Astronuc said:
While the tax rates are high - http://taxfoundation.org/article/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2014

Companies apparently find ways to reduce tax liability and in some cases get tax rebates and pay very low rates already.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2015/04/fifteen_of_many_reasons_why_we_need_corporate_tax_reform.php
Agreed: our tax system is a joke, and the same issue there applies to personal income taxes (too many loopholes/deductions). You can reduce or eliminate the loopholes/deductions and substantially reduce the rate with no change in revenue. Then reduce the rate more to tip the playing field back in our direction.
 
  • #295
Or just flat out remove corporate and personal income tax. That will require a reevaluation of how we view what the role of government ought to be. I think there are a few departments that we can remove (education, IRS, interior) just to name a few.
 
  • #296
mheslep said:
Yes, bile. Some scatological language, some bile.

Per your links
It doesn't exactly scream "presidential gravitas," but the crowd ate it up.

With the Granite State primary set for this Tuesday, most polls have Trump in the lead by double digits.

Like it or not he has struck a chord. Seven states yesterday ?
Myself i think it's partly because we have so many 24 hour news outlets all marketing discontent. Fox, Comedy Central, Hannity, Chomsky, countless bloggers . We're reaping the resentment they sow .

Is it healthy for the country ? I really don't know. Anger was Dante's fifth circle, four more to go...

Buckle up - it could be a wild ride !
 
  • #297
jim hardy said:
Per your links...

Like it or not he has struck a chord. Seven states yesterday ?
Myself i think it's partly because we have so many 24 hour news outlets all marketing discontent. Fox, Comedy Central, Hannity, Chomsky, countless bloggers . We're reaping the resentment they sow .

Is it healthy for the country ? I really don't know. Anger was Dante's fifth circle, four more to go...

Buckle up - it could be a wild ride !
Yes, Trump has strong support. Yes Trump is winning states in this many-candidate primary campaign, though not a single case of winning half the vote. I think I understand the anger driving Trump support. What I don't understand is why anyone would deny Trump's tone, his bile.

Edit: BTW, IMO Clinton's rhetoric, not Trump's, is in first place for the most divisive, most demagogic.
“They’re doing everything they can to stop black people, Latinos, poor people, young people, people with disabilities from voting,” she said. “It’s a blast from the Jim Crow past, and we’re going to fight it.”
 
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  • #298
Astronuc said:
Regarding the issues, particularly matters like 'bring jobs home or back to America', how exactly would Trump propose to do that.

I heard Chris Collins tonight talk about jobs that China stole. China didn't steal jobs, they simply convinced US corporations to use their much less expensive labor and materials. How would Trump convince US companies to bring jobs back to the US? Tax breaks? No corporate taxes? Reduce minimum wage to levels equivalent to China? Rescind ACA? Curtail or eliminate SS and Medicare/Medicaid?

How will he make America great?

Collins mentioned that Trump will form the best Cabinet ever. With whom? Wheelers and dealers? Negotiators?

I really like to know how he will make Christianity great again. Wave his hands?
Examine what the campaign has actually published. Trump has been vague on many topics, but trade and jobs are areas where he's published some detail.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform
  • Attack China via the WTO and other means open to the executive on the basis or currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, and protectionist subsidies, lax environmental standards relative to the US.
  • Lower the corporate tax to 15% (from the current 35%). The US currently has the highest rate in the OECD and G7. The Simpson Bowles commission organized by (and ignored by) Obama recommended a reduction to ~27%, and a zero marginal rate on corporate income from foreign sources.
Trump would also replace the ACA, which the CBO indicates reduces employment.
I'm curious about the thinking of Trump supporters.
I'm thinking their perception of condescension by the establishment weighs large in the their thinking.
 
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  • #299
Astronuc said:
Companies apparently find ways to reduce tax liability and in some cases get tax rebates and pay very low rates already.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2015/04/fifteen_of_many_reasons_why_we_need_corporate_tax_reform.php
The CTJ link you cite states *some* well connected and large firms, not all, not even most, are able to take advantage of the loopholes.
 
  • #300
Have you seen this video of Christy's reaction to Trump's victory speech?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/offbeat/chris-christies-facial-expressions-during-donald-trumps-speech-were-easily-the-best-part/ar-BBqdOF6?li=BBnbcA1

Not sure what if he did the right thing in supporting Trump?
 
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  • #301
gleem said:
Have you seen this video of Christy's reaction to Trump's victory speech?

Not sure what if he did the right thing in supporting Trump?
Would you have thought about Chris Christie today if he hadn't? Sounds to me like he scored.
 
  • #302
gleem said:
Have you seen this video of Christy's reaction to Trump's victory speech?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/offbeat/chris-christies-facial-expressions-during-donald-trumps-speech-were-easily-the-best-part/ar-BBqdOF6?li=BBnbcA1

Not sure what if he did the right thing in supporting Trump?
Seems people in NJ are not too happy.
 
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  • #304
  • #305
Romney calling Trump 'phony,' urging Republicans to shun him
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-sees-options-stopping-trump-not-good-ones-082019626--election.html

I sympathize with members of the GOP. What a mess.
 
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  • #307
I was listening to the local radio today and shocked that the local DJ, a normally radical type, had nothing good to say about anyone, but never mentioned Clinton. Now I would have expected Clinton to be his #1 target. I don't care for him normally. hmmm

It was funny, he said Trump and Sanders were the same person and gave dozens of examples, except he said Sanders wouldn't be able to do the things he said. He basically said Cruz and Rubio were religious zealots and should be feared and gave examples. I found myself agreeing.
 
  • #308
Evo said:
I was listening to the local radio today and shocked that the local DJ, a normally radical type, had nothing good to say about anyone, but never mentioned Clinton. Now I would have expected Clinton to be his #1 target. I don't care for him normally. hmmm

It was funny, he said Trump and Sanders were the same person and gave dozens of examples, except he said Sanders wouldn't be able to do the things he said. He basically said Cruz and Rubio were religious zealots and should be feared and gave examples. I found myself agreeing.

Though I've yet to hear anything truly bad about John Kasich from either side...except that he has "no chance of winning."
 
  • #309
axmls said:
Though I've yet to hear anything truly bad about John Kasich from either side...except that he has "no chance of winning."
Probably because no one has heard of him.
 
  • #310
The Detroit Republican debate today was interesting. This is an email I sent to someone 22 mins into the debate:

Wow…. I like how Rubio is challenging Trump on his answers, saying he is not answering the questions (which is true). The insults continue, sadly.
 
  • #311
Evo said:
Probably because no one has heard of him.
Maybe because most are interested only in the spectacle, circus and not the substance.
 
  • #312
Astronuc said:
Romney calling Trump 'phony,' urging Republicans to shun him
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-sees-options-stopping-trump-not-good-ones-082019626--election.html
...and yet not endorsing one of the other candidates? So, what was the point of that? Next stop for him must be Viagra commercials.
 
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  • #313
Astronuc said:
Romney calling Trump 'phony,' urging Republicans to shun him
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-sees-options-stopping-trump-not-good-ones-082019626--election.html

I sympathize with members of the GOP. What a mess.

TurtleMeister said:
Pretty good summation:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...-about-restoring-american-exceptionalism.html

The American people are fed up. And now we're serving notice on both parties: We are beholden to no one -- Republican or Democrat -- and if we have to burn down the village to save village -- then burn, baby, burn.

So Romney and everyone else (including most people on this thread) attack Trump, and fail to address the wants of Trump supporters. I don't know how many they are, 30? 40? 50? 60? 70 million? Some say they include Democrats. The point is that this a huge fraction of the voting public, and they are sick of being ignored and called stupid. Turtlemeister's comment illustrates this. IMO, it is a grave political mistake to ignore them.

Why shouldn't Trump supporters say "burn, baby, burn" to the American political system, the American democracy system, and the American government?

When will other candidates, party leaders, and commentators (including those on this thread), forget Trump and start focusing on Trump supporters?
 
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  • #314
anorlunda said:
When will other candidates, party leaders, and commentators (including those on this thread), forget Trump and start focusing on Trump supporters?
Attacking voters even if they are not yours, is not a good strategy as a candidate.
 

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