Do you support legalisation of marijuana?

[maverick_starstrider]

Ahaha, if that's directed at me, you have no clue.

No, just a generalization of the average anti-marijuana proponent. Helluva story though (not sarcasm).

 

[turbo]

Ahaha, if that's directed at me, you have no clue.

I had a radio show on Pacifica radio in the early 70's. (think hippy pacifist, drug users that shaped society and politics in the early 70's). Our radio station tower was bombed by the KKK and I was next to Arlo Guthrie in the PBS documentary about it. I dated the VP of the Students for a Democratic Society. I am the most non-mainstream, non-religious, immoral , person that has more illegal drug experience than anyone here, except perhaps for Rayb. I also have a functioning brain and can make mature decisions.
Oh, and that's because I learned from each "test" of each drug that losing control is not something to be desired. I know people that died from drug overdoses, I have high school friends still in prison for dealing heroin, I've seen people murdered in front of me in bad neighborhoods. I've pretty much seen it all, and learned a lot from it.

Most of the really bad results (killings, prison sentences, accidental overdose, etc) could be mitigated or eliminated by legalizing and controlling drugs, much as prescription drugs are controlled. Prohibition creates an organized criminal class that uses obscene profits on otherwise-cheap drugs to fuel violence, eliminate rivals and control territory. The price of prohibiting and criminalizing recreational drugs is huge, both in economic and social damages. The DEA and the drug-dealers agree - "keep drugs illegal".

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Ya, I was reading an article the other day that an obscene percentage (I can't actually remember the number) of the american penal system is filled with people who have commited what the article called "consentual crimes" including dealing and possession of drugs. Consensual crimes are ones in which every one involved was a willing participant (so not violent or theft or the like). That seems rather silly to me. Like making suicide illegal

 

[mgb_phys]

called "consentual crimes" including dealing and possession of drugs. ... That seems rather silly to me.

By the rather odd logic of macro-economics this is the argument for making drugs illegal.
All the costs of policing, imprisonment, the proceeds of crimes and the costs of replacing stolen goods all add to the GDP.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

By the rather odd logic of macro-economics this is the argument for making drugs illegal.
All the costs of policing, imprisonment, the proceeds of crimes and the costs of replacing stolen goods all add to the GDP.

That's a kin to the silly argument that in a green economy people are wealthier. We have the exact same size pie, we're just cutting it up differently.

 

[Al68]

People don't need a good reason to do anything provided they don't infringe on the rights of others. I find it amazing that the notion of liberty is completely lost on some. Why do you think you have the right to take away the rights of others?

Alcohol has probably destroyed more lives than any other single drug, so I assume that you would support banning its use as well. It certainly has no redeeming qualities.

The same is true for soft drinks and junk food - no redeeming qualities. In fact I found it rather amusing this morning to see the soft drink companies running a commercial against taxing soft drinks to help support the health plan. The chickens are coming home to roost! Next, we will be going after salt and fat. Just watch. Maybe the government can issue a pamphlet of approved habbits.

Ivan, I'm shocked to read one of your posts that I agree with entirely! Too many people believe that the legitimate role of government is to control or change society, instead of being a necessary evil for the purpose of protecting liberty from criminals/invaders.

 

[Al68]

Which is why I find people that try to give a credible reason for smoking pot so humorous. Like getting stoned is not the sole reason they do it.

It seems to me that most here are not trying to give a credible reason to smoke pot, they're trying to give a credible reason not to use force against and imprison people for smoking pot.

Although, if you really don't know other reasons to smoke pot than to get stoned, I'd suggest a little research. It clearly relieves pain, anxiety, nausea, lack of appetite, etc. Sure there are other drugs that have similar effects, but they are usually a lot harder to get.

 

[Al68]

Illegal is not the same as criminal, even if the dictionary implies it is. An unlawful act means you broke a law. A criminal act means you victimized someone: hurt them, damaged their property, killed them, stole their property, etc. Just because a piece of paper was signed by someone we "elected" stating that wearing a blue shirt is illegal does not mean you are a criminal if you wear a blue shirt, you have simply broken a law.

This is a very good point, and the converse is true as well, making and enforcing a law can be a criminal act by that definition.

 

[robertm]

Evo:

I would support legalization of marijuana in pill or liquid form only. I just don't agree that we need yet another thing to be smoked when we are working on eliminating tobacco as a public nuisance.

I guess you didn't read my earlier post, Check the link.

Vaporization of cannabis material effectively cuts out all carcinogens without any appreciable effect on the delivery of THC. I'm surprised you are not aware of this technique with all your past experience.

In any case, you can't ruin peoples lives and throw them in jail for something that is considered a 'public nuisance'. And how is it 'public' if the consumption is done in private?

 

[russ_watters]

Quick question: what are people's opinions of seat belt laws? Mandatory health/car insurance?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

There is currently a fairly big movement pushing legalization here in California. The rationale that they are putting up is that pot smokers want to have their habit legalized so they can pay taxes on it and help out the economy. I think that there is some rather significant support for it at the moment particularly with the current economic situation and our budget shortfall.

Just a few monthes ago there was a story about marijuana sales supposedly accounting for approximately two third's of Mendocino County's local economy (That's where Humboldt is for those that don't know).

 

[mgb_phys]

Quick question: what are people's opinions of seat belt laws?

As a cyclist, not only should seal belts be banned, but all SUVs should have a 6inch spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Quick question: what are people's opinions of seat belt laws? Mandatory health/car insurance?

By law all manufacturers should have to put them in. I don't know if I'm really on the same page when the law mandates that you MUST wear them. If you want to get yourself killed be my guest. I don't get extreme sports but I wouldn't suggest banning them. However, it seems to mainly be a ticketable offence so maybe it's just a cash grab.

 

[Evo]

This thread is so sad. Yes, what the world needs is better access to recreational drugs, because it is so important that everyone gets stoned on the drug of their choice. How about fighting for quicker approval of new drugs that help with serious illness or geting research funded for orphan illnesses? No. We need to get up in arms about being able to get stoned. Unreal.

 

[dx]

This thread is so sad. Yes, what the world needs is better access to recreational drugs, because it is so important that everyone gets stoned on the drug of their choice. How about fighting for quicker approval of new drugs that help with serious illness or geting research funded for orphan illnesses? No. We need to get up in arms about being able to get stoned. Unreal.

That's one of the worst arguments ever. Is that what you say when you see a bunch of people having fun? "You people are so sad, you're here having fun and wasting time while millions of people are starving and dying, why don't you go and do something to help them?"

 

[Evo]

That's one of the worst arguments ever. Is that what you say when you see a bunch of people having fun? "You people are so sad, you're here having fun and wasting time while millions of people are starving and dying, why don't you go and do something to help them?"

Equating getting drugged to having normal fun, I don't know what to say to that. That's even sadder.

 

[tchitt]

Equating getting drugged to having normal fun, I don't know what to say to that. That's even sadder.

Well who's to say that getting drugged up isn't "normal fun"? I know I said earlier that I don't think marijuana shouldn't be legalized because that makes it socially acceptable... but that doesn't mean I think it's immoral. It's more about protecting young people from getting hooked before they're old enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

You seem to think recreational drug use is immoral, Evo. Why?

 

[Martini]

Well who's to say that getting drugged up isn't "normal fun"? I know I said earlier that I don't think marijuana shouldn't be legalized because that makes it socially acceptable... but that doesn't mean I think it's immoral. It's more about protecting young people from getting hooked before they're old enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

You seem to think recreational drug use is immoral, Evo. Why?

I think legalization would help prevent young people from smoking pot.
The "just say no" policy is completely ineffective.
We should be giving facts to people my age, not scare tactics.

 

[Kronos5253]

Equating getting drugged to having normal fun, I don't know what to say to that. That's even sadder.

So by that right drinking alcohol should be in that same boat for you. After all, it IS a drug that was legalized.. Correct? Am I right?

If not why do you differentiate between the two? Marijuana is PROVEN in COUNTLESS studies to be effectively harmless to your body, including the second-hand smoke from it, while alcohol is known to destroy your body.

Drinking alcohol is getting druged, but that is considered having normal fun, by pretty much all accounts.

 

[Kronos5253]

I think legalization would help prevent young people from smoking pot.
The "just say no" policy is completely ineffective.
We should be giving facts to people my age, not scare tactics.

Agreed, and that's a very good point.

 

[camilus]

maaaan this thread is incredible...

and its often that religious people criminalize marijuana, as if God somehow "****ed up" when he created pot. And yes, God indeed did create pot.

So their version of Genesis goes like this:

"And God said let there be light, and all was light."

"And then God said let there be pot, and society crashed and burned."

 

[Evo]

So by that right drinking alcohol should be in that same boat for you. After all, it IS a drug that was legalized.. Correct? Am I right?

If not why do you differentiate between the two?

I have not differentiated between the two. I pointed out the good and bad of drinking alcohol. Mainly alcohol abuse, as alcohol in small amounts, can actually be beneficial. I suggest that you read my posts before making false claims of what I said.

Drinking alcohol is getting druged, but that is considered having normal fun, by pretty much all accounts.

Someone sipping a glass of wine over the period of an hour, might not even be enough to be felt. If they abuse it and drink to get drunk, then I am against it. I'm not for getting stoned or drunk. I think I've been pretty clear that I don't see a valid reason that anyone "needs" to do either.

Are we going to go around in circles now?

 

[Evo]

maaaan this thread is incredible...

and its often that religious people criminalize marijuana, as if God somehow "****ed up" when he created pot. And yes, God indeed did create pot.

So their version of Genesis goes like this:

"And God said let there be light, and all was light."

"And then God said let there be pot, and society crashed and burned."

What religious person here is against it for religious reasons?

Or did you just make this up?

 

[tchitt]

The point is that a lot of people think getting drunk is fun (it causes feelings of euphoria and happiness), and I think that's why most people drink. You said earlier you think most people drink alcohol to enjoy the taste but I don't see that... why is so much high proof liquor bought and sold in this country if that's the case?

I'm just curious as to why you're so "against" people getting intoxicated for fun. Not that it matters... it's not even on topic. There's just a difference in everyone's respective philosophies and we're at the point where it's time to agree to disagree.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Equating getting drugged to having normal fun, I don't know what to say to that. That's even sadder.

Lol. Again with the 'normal' fun. That reminds me of the Dursley's from Harry Potter. I'd expect a physics board is a bad place to expect arguments based around expectations of normalcy to take hold.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

"This is happy harry hard-on saying eat your cereal with a fork... and do your homework in the dark"

 

[lisab]

maaaan this thread is incredible...

and its often that religious people criminalize marijuana, as if God somehow "****ed up" when he created pot. And yes, God indeed did create pot.

So their version of Genesis goes like this:

"And God said let there be light, and all was light."

"And then God said let there be pot, and society crashed and burned."

If you toke, don't post.

 

[ray b]

What religious person here is against it for religious reasons?

Or did you just make this up?

follow the money as D T said in water gate

in the Alaska vote on recrimalising pot
the churchies were the major cash supporters

the whole prohibition movement was church based and funded
most dry county's are/were in the bible belt

same ideals are behind the war on drugs
with the sex and rock&roll added in

 

[ray b]

If you toke, don't post.

more like if you get caught with pot in the south
you can't vote

 

[mgb_phys]

the whole prohibition movement was church based and funded
most dry county's are/were in the bible belt

This is the church of the carpenter guy with the beard?
The one who turned water into wine and hands out free wine every sunday ?

Have they perhaps been smoking something?

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I have to say that I get the impression that a lot of the anti-legalization posts so far have been coming from a place of stigma pure and simple. A lot of prejudice against recreational drugs and recreational drug users.

 

[camilus]

If you toke, don't post.

haha that's really constructive thanks.

And for Evo, I wasnt saying that the people post here against legalization are religious, although it's probably the majority.

I really don't care about 'legalization', I just care about de-criminalization. I did time for fkin pot, and I got to go back to jail soon because I pissed dirty on probation drug test. Yes, I am 'on the run' right now, ALL over a little bit of pot. Free country my ***, a person shouldn't be put in jail with the thieves and murderers because they smoked a little bit of pot. Give me a ticket, I could care less, but sending me to prison like I just committed a horrific crime that affected you is BS.

In all fairness, I say whatever, yeah its the law and blah blah blah. I wouldn't care if we were atleast consistent. I'll bust out my ethics notebook, where we make mince meat out of the U.S. war on drugs. Tobacco and alcohol related deaths number in the hundreds of thousands per year, when the hell has a little bit of weed killed anybody. And we're talking realistically here, not the 1960s commercials with little kids smoking pot and grabbing an axe and hacking their parents to pieces. Pathetic..

 

[camilus]

I have to say that I get the impression that a lot of the anti-legalization posts so far have been coming from a place of stigma pure and simple. A lot of prejudice against recreational drugs and recreational drug users.

absolutely correct.

A hundred years ago, I could walk into a pharmacy and buy a little heroin kit, complete with syringes and dope. ALL perfectly legal. Today, I smoke half a gram of ... I don't even got to finish that sentence.

 

[lisab]

haha that's really constructive thanks.

And for Evo, I wasnt saying that the people post here against legalization are religious, although it's probably the majority.

I really don't care about 'legalization', I just care about de-criminalization. I did time for fkin pot, and I got to go back to jail soon because I pissed dirty on probation drug test. Yes, I am 'on the run' right now, ALL over a little bit of pot. Free country my ***, a person shouldn't be put in jail with the thieves and murderers because they smoked a little bit of pot. Give me a ticket, I could care less, but sending me to prison like I just committed a horrific crime that affected you is BS.

In all fairness, I say whatever, yeah its the law and blah blah blah. I wouldn't care if we were atleast consistent. I'll bust out my ethics notebook, where we make mince meat out of the U.S. war on drugs. Tobacco and alcohol related deaths number in the hundreds of thousands per year, when the hell has a little bit of weed killed anybody. And we're talking realistically here, not the 1960s commercials with little kids smoking pot and grabbing an axe and hacking their parents to pieces. Pathetic..

True, the punishment and the "crime" are way out of proportion. Everyone knows that...yet some choose to partake, anyway. I don't get that...to me, it's just not worth it.

I wouldn't smoke it even if it were legal, so perhaps I'm biased against it.

 

[camilus]

more like if you get caught with pot in the south
you can't vote

hahahah I can testify to this..

Some of yall just need to get high and watch some Bill Hicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/E49Y48AUTG4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/E49Y48AUTG4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>