Does having children make you happy?

[Chi Meson]

Are you calling me irresponsible Ivan? I hope not.

I think I could prove quite easily that my family of five has a smaller footprint than the average childless couple in this country.

And if it makes you feel better, my only brother died of cancer a while back; please consider our third kid his stand-in.

 

[DaveC426913]

I think it is irresponsible, and, frankly, selfish, to have more than two children.

Well selfish, yes, but of all places one is allowed to be selfish, it would be in having their family. Irresponsible? Don't be silly.

It's a little self-righteous to suggest that global concerns should be the number one priority, even above one's own family.

It's a bit like suggesting we are being selfish for not giving over all our earnings to the poor.

 

[rootX]

Are you calling me irresponsible Ivan? I hope not.

I think I could prove quite easily that my family of five has a smaller footprint than the average childless couple in this country.

And if it makes you feel better, my only brother died of cancer a while back; please consider our third kid his stand-in.

Please don't use personal examples. I believe this thread can turn out to be quite ugly if people start doing that. If you believe that it is not irresponsbile to have more than 2 children, justify using something more substantial IMHO

 

[Chi Meson]

Please don't use personal examples. I believe this thread can turn out to be quite ugly if people start doing that. If you believe that it is not irresponsbile to have more than 2 children, justify using something more substantial IMHO

I'd say it is more responsible to justify the accusation first. I'm giving Ivan the benefit of the doubt that his intent was behind the phrase "too many children." I think it is a bit too forward to stamp a specific number on the border of irresponsible.

And I am not out to apologize for all families with more than two children; exactly all I can do is speak for myself which requires nothing but my personal examples.

 

[DaveC426913]

If you really care about your future grandchidren, and their children, do them a favor and don't have too many kids.

I think it is a bit too forward to stamp a specific number on the border of irresponsible.

Good point. My parents didn't have "too many kids". They stopped at five.

 

[Chi Meson]

Good point. My parents didn't have "too many kids". They stopped at five.

Let me guess, you have four older siblings?

 

[DaveC426913]

Let me guess, you have four older siblings?

Well, yes, but that wasn't my point. My point was simply that "too many" is subjective.

 

[Evo]

Well, yes, but that wasn't my point. My point was simply that "too many" is subjective.

Actually for developed countries 2 children per couple is considered ecologically sustainable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_population_growth

 

[Chi Meson]

A loosely defined goal of ZPG was to have a fertility rate of 2.11. Fertility rate is the average number of children a woman would be expected to have over the course of her life. The replacement fertility is the total fertility rate at which the average women would have one daughter during her life: enough to replace herself. This replacement fertility will depend on mortality rates and the sex ratio at birth. It varies from around 2.1 in developed countries to over 3.0 in some developing countries.

So,

what does a family with 2.11 children look like?

 

[mheslep]

If it were not for immigration, the population of the US would be slightly decreasing.

Me, I think the negligent raising of one child is selfish, not the loving and responsible raising of even several, leading to some more creative, responsible, and free adults in this world.

 

[Evo]

So,

what does a family with 2.11 children look like?

It's a goal to work toward. World overpopulation is the reason I only had two children. I'm not kidding.
It's not so much cutting off at exactly two, but more to raise awareness of the serious problem of overpopulation. In 1850 the world population was only 1 billion, today it is almost 7 billion and growing.

 

[DaveC426913]

It's a goal to work toward. World overpopulation is the reason I only had two children.

I thought you said you didn't want any children?

 

[Evo]

I thought you said you didn't want any children?

I didn't, but my husband did.

 

[Kerrie]

Happiness is within, not without. It is a personal matter. Some people can be happy even in the face of adversity - and that is an extraordinary quality.

Well stated! I think a lot of people forget this when they have children, or choose not to have children. If someone wasn't prepared to have a child and could even be resentful of becoming a parent when not ready, then that is ultimately the choice they have made to feel for themselves, and the child shouldn't ever be made to feel responsible for that resentment carried on by their parent. If a child is ever made to feel like a mistake or a burden, that might significantly weigh on their self esteem leading to an unhealthy state of mind. The last thing our society needs are people who have grown up to believe their existence was a mistake or resented.

Children are a lot of dedication and sacrifice, I have three myself. They have tested me to my limits on a regular basis, but I have come to realize when I keep it all in perspective, being a mother is a huge blessing I am very grateful to have.

 

[WhoWee]

So,

what does a family with 2.11 children look like?

I can address this question in the context of Sunday dinner. Basically, 2.11 of my 4 children typically consume 90% of the available quantities.

 

[DaveC426913]

"Re: Does having children make you happy?"

Having MiH's children would make me happy.
Does that count?

 

[Huckleberry]

Gotta throw this one in because I believe it is so important: I think it is irresponsible, and, frankly, selfish, to have more than two children. In the final analysis, many of our [the world] biggest problems come back to population. If you really care about your future grandchidren, and their children, do them a favor and don't have too many kids.

Whether it be carbon dioxide emissions, waste, food, energy, or water demand, the most siginficant footprints that you will ever leave on this planet are your offspring.

Can I sell part of my quota? If a couple is allowed two, and I'm single and never have any, then I should be allowed at least one. I'll give mine to Chi-Meson, since him and his wife already have three and will do a better job of raising them than I would one of my own.

One day such a scenario may not be in jest. It looks preferrable to the alternative.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article570455.ece

 

[imiyakawa]

We must be careful with that 7% statistic. In fact, ceteris paribus, I'd be more willing to posit that that figure is due to the fact that couples with kids have been together for a longer time than couples without kids - the "spark" is gone.

 

[Zantra]

As has been mentioned, I think it depends a lot on the individual. I always thought I wanted to have a large family. But after we got mariied, the years passed by, and eventually the decision was made for us. Even so, in the end, neither one of us really wanted to have kids. I understand that parenthood can be tremendously rewarding, so I don't mean to slight that aspect of having kids in the least. I understand that once you have them, they become your life. But, by not having kids, we have had life options that never would have been possible otherwise. We have been able to live where we want, mostly how we want, and doing what we want. It has allowed me to take risks that no responsible parent would be able to take. It has allowed me to pursue a dream without doing so at the expense of my family, as many people do. I am hard pressed to think of anything in my life that I would want to give up for the sake of having a family. In fact, when I think of how our lives might have been if we had kids, I can imagine being desperately unhappy. The thought of the hum drum of a "normal life" makes me want to run for the nearest cliff! There but for the grace of God, go I.

Kudos to you Ivan for having the forethought and consideration to not have children, when you knew it wasn't the right choice. I see countless child after child with horrible, irresponsible parents (some dancing in provactive dance competitions) who had children out of some sense of obligation. And they realize down the road that, as they suspected, they didn't want children, and then who suffers their mistake? the child who is stuck with a parent who doesn't truly want them, or who doesn't have the necessary character to provide a the love and support they deserve.

For the record I have a 16 year old little girl (yes, I said little), and I love her to death (much to her chagrin... ( teenagers ) and no, I wouldn't trade her for the world or change anything if I could, but I'd be lying to say it wasn't a challenge. And not everyone wants to have that challenge in their lives, as it may interfere with other goals and aspirations...

I wish everyone thought through their choices and how they affect others the way you did...we'd have less chiildren with miserable childhoods and psychological issues

 

[Borek]

today it is almost 7 billion and growing.

7 billions and growling if you ask me.

 

[Chi Meson]

Can I sell part of my quota? If a couple is allowed two, and I'm single and never have any, then I should be allowed at least one. I'll give mine to Chi-Meson, since him and his wife already have three and will do a better job of raising them than I would one of my own.

It's "cap'n'trade," isn't it?

Tell you what, my heating fuel use is ridiculously low, about 45 Mbtu per year (that includes hot water). For New England, that's 10 to 30 Mbtu below average (depends on how you average). So, I'll trade you 15 Mbtu credit per year (so you can set your thermostat a degree or two higher) for 0.89 excess child credit. This will leave you with 0.11 ecc, which you might be able to use for a motorbike, or something.

 

[BobG]

Gotta throw this one in because I believe it is so important: I think it is irresponsible, and, frankly, selfish, to have more than two children. In the final analysis, many of our [the world] biggest problems come back to population. If you really care about your future grandchidren, and their children, do them a favor and don't have too many kids.

Whether it be carbon dioxide emissions, waste, food, energy, or water demand, the most siginficant footprints that you will ever leave on this planet are your offspring.

If you're talking worldwide, I'd say you have a point. It would be good for the world's population to decrease.

Within a local region (espcecially the US and Europe), not so much.

However, I guess both could be balanced. The US and Europe don't need to increase their birth rate to keep a growing economy. They could move some of the people from the less developed countries into the more developed countries. They tend to work for less, as well, providing an added benefit.

Besides, you want your average to be about 2 per family. The only way to hit that is if some people have more than 2. The number of kids among me and my siblings: 4, 0, 3, 4*, 0, 1, 0. * - 2 marriages, so 4 kids among 3 parents. (And my siblings and I make 7 kids from 4 parents).

 

[rootX]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8682558.stm

Like many children in Ganne she has become used to eating bits of dried mud and silica, which she finds in the quarry. Tiny children chew on the mud simply because they are hungry - but it is making them ill.

 

[rootX]

If you're talking worldwide, I'd say you have a point. It would be good for the world's population to decrease.

Within a local region (espcecially the US and Europe), not so much.

However, I guess both could be balanced. The US and Europe don't need to increase their birth rate to keep a growing economy. They could move some of the people from the less developed countries into the more developed countries. They tend to work for less, as well, providing an added benefit.

Besides, you want your average to be about 2 per family. The only way to hit that is if some people have more than 2. The number of kids among me and my siblings: 4, 0, 3, 4*, 0, 1, 0. * - 2 marriages, so 4 kids among 3 parents. (And my siblings and I make 7 kids from 4 parents).

I would favor immigration because you can test their knowledge/health before they can enter. But there would never be that kind of restriction for new kids

 

[drankin]

Not having read all the responses to the post, just responding to the question.

No, having children is not the path to happiness. But, having children is a way to lead a life with a purpose beyond your own self interest. This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.

 

[mheslep]

Not having read all the responses to the post, just responding to the question.

No, having children is not the path to happiness. But, having children is a way to lead a life with a purpose beyond your own self interest. This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.

Yep, I'll sign on to that. Well said Drankin.

 

[Kerrie]

Not having read all the responses to the post, just responding to the question.

No, having children is not the path to happiness. But, having children is a way to lead a life with a purpose beyond your own self interest. This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.

Yes, well stated.

 

[BobG]

This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.

Unless they're on a plane together and the oxygen masks drop down.

 

[DanP]

not everyone was cut out to be parent, and that's regardless of how "prepared" you are. Some people just don't have what it takes..

hapiness is a choice, like all things in life. you either choose to be happy with your circumstances or not. If you see misery, you will be misery. If you see joy, you will be joy.

There's a hallmark card for you

"sorry you got knocked up"

happiness (or lack thereof) may very well be in a significant % genetically determined.

 

[DanP]

"Re: Does having children make you happy?"

Having MiH's children would make me happy.
Does that count?

Would this make your wife happy too ?

 

[DanP]

It's a goal to work toward. World overpopulation is the reason I only had two children. I'm not kidding.
It's not so much cutting off at exactly two, but more to raise awareness of the serious problem of overpopulation. In 1850 the world population was only 1 billion, today it is almost 7 billion and growing.

The bad part is that educated humans like you only have 2 children. While in some parts of the world they reproduce like rabbits. Id rather have the world overpopulated with the children of educated man, than with the children of half -savages.

 

[Zantra]

happiness (or lack thereof) may very well be in a significant % genetically determined.

studies to support this...?

Assuming no psychological disorders (manic, etc) Someone with a good chemical balance should be able to achieve happiness if they so desire...

 

[DaveC426913]

Would this make your wife happy too ?

I didn't say my happiness would be long-lived. Or my life.


(P.S My instinct was to say Evo instread of MiH, because she's actually here in this thread. I wasn't sure if that would make it funnier or less funny.)

 

[DanP]

studies to support this...?

Assuming no psychological disorders (manic, etc) Someone with a good chemical balance should be able to achieve happiness if they so desire...

Yes, even for humans with no psychological disorders. Happiness has a significant genetic component. And so it's depression for that matter. It's something which is taught nowadays in most psych 101. It doesn't mean that hapiness is invariant, it mainly means that it's skewed toward a genetically set point. Some humans will be by default happier than others.

You can listen to this lecture from Prof Paul Bloom at Yale:

http://oyc.yale.edu/yale/psychology/introduction-to-psychology/content/sessions/lecture20.html

This is no link to research, but I don't have at hand any papers which led to this conclusion and unfortunately no time to dig them. But if you listen to the lecture you will be able to track down enough research on your own.

 

[leroyjenkens]

The bad part is that educated humans like you only have 2 children. While in some parts of the world they reproduce like rabbits. Id rather have the world overpopulated with the children of educated man, than with the children of half -savages.

And the more children you have, the harder it is to raise them the right way. So not only do you overpopulate the world by having so many children, those children will grow up and have a greater chance of just being a burden on society, along with the 10+ kids they'll most likely eventually have.