Does IQ really determine intelligence?

[Ebolamonk3y]

Tests are rigged in themselves to those who test well.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Tests are rigged in themselves to those who test well.

Excuse me, what does this mean?

 

[motai]

I think he means the people who seem to have better test-taking skills, at least compared to the people who panic during a test or generally freeze.

 

[Humbucker]

I'm in the 130 range on every IQ test that I've ever taken.They're all wrong.It's a biased and frankly stupid test for people who think they're smart.
Bull****.
My grandfather left school when he was 9 years old,raised 7 kids and made his own way in this world.That man was almost illiterate and taught me way more about life than any test ever did.It's all subjective man.
If I hear some pompous,holier-than-thou mouth talking about their IQ like it means something,they may get smacked in the face with my fist.

 

[BlackVision]

I'm in the 130 range on every IQ test that I've ever taken.They're all wrong.It's a biased and frankly stupid test for people who think they're smart.
Bull****.
My grandfather left school when he was 9 years old,raised 7 kids and made his own way in this world.That man was almost illiterate and taught me way more about life than any test ever did.It's all subjective man.
If I hear some pompous,holier-than-thou mouth talking about their IQ like it means something,they may get smacked in the face with my fist.

First you might try explaining how an IQ test is bias. Have you ever taken a Progressive Matrices IQ test? I don't know how in the world you can call that test bias. Whether racial, gender, educational, it is not bias.

A person's IQ is not everything. However it is still a lot. It shows your ability to handle complex situations. Your potential to do well in school, your potential to get a good job, your ability to use logic is also highly linked to your IQ.

 

[Humbucker]

Ok,you asked BlackVision.Here are some answers.School huh?Did well then.
Don't owe one single penny for my education.Academic scholarships and making fat money.I'll get to that in a minute.
Complex situations?How about flying a Pave Low helicopter for 5 years.Special Forces aircraft pilot.Real world deployments with bad things happening.Complex enough?
A job?I'm holding a check in my hand for $126,000.That's for one transaction.Going to make at least 9 more this year for about the same amount.You asked and got answered.I don't see how a test made any difference in my life.Not one little bit.Means nothing!

 

[BlackVision]

Ok,you asked BlackVision.Here are some answers.School huh?Did well then.
Don't owe one single penny for my education.Academic scholarships and making fat money.I'll get to that in a minute.
Complex situations?How about flying a Pave Low helicopter for 5 years.Special Forces aircraft pilot.Real world deployments with bad things happening.Complex enough?
A job?I'm holding a check in my hand for $126,000.That's for one transaction.Going to make at least 9 more this year for about the same amount.You asked and got answered.I don't see how a test made any difference in my life.Not one little bit.Means nothing!

Are you responding to somebody else's post? 'Cause you're certainly not responding to mine. So I'm curious. Who exactly are you responding to here? Or did you simply get confused and thought I asked you what you did for a living?

 

[Njorl]

First you might try explaining how an IQ test is bias.

All IQ tests are biased, the question is to what degree. Some are very biased, testing only learning, and correlating with other tests. Others are only slightly biased.

However, I have never seen an IQ test that eliminates the bias about giving a damn. If you don't care, you'll underperform.
Njorl

 

[jammieg]

Every time I see IQ I think of "input output" like a computer. I have a friend who is extremely creative and only scored average on the test, but he got nervous, I tried to explain to him that if he hadn't been nervous he would have done much better, basically if you wait until the big game to practice for the first time at swinging a bat you will be nervous, but my other friend said that nervousness was a valid factor and this was his score. I wonder if a person might be too creative, have too much imagination and it actually have a negative impact on their IQ.

 

[hitssquad]

Bias vs cultural loading in mental testing

All IQ tests are biased, the question is to what degree. Some are very biased, testing only learning, and correlating with other tests.

This would be accurate if the word biased was replaced by the phrase "culturally loaded." As Arthur Jensen pointed out in his 1980 book Bias in Mental Testing, cultural loading does not equate with bias. If a measuring instrument is biased, it should be possible to say along what axis, in which direction along that axis, and to what degree the bias obtains.

 

[idontthinkright]

well technically both answers are correct,if you look at it in different angles.By the way taking online tests are utter rubbish.take one from a psychologist,that would give you the most genuine result.

 

[Tasthius]

www.highiqsociety.com[/URL] has some of the best online IQ tests normalized against a huge population. Only about 7% of the test takers receive a score in the superior range, as opposed to other inflated internet tests.

 

[mitch@crowfamily.us]

AS for IQ testing as an instrument for measuring 'smart' - it is all old thinking. Read up on 'Everyday Genius' which combines a variety of factors to explain who is intelligent and how. IQ is so limiting. I could recommend a book called 'Liberating Everyday Genius' by Mary-Elaine Jacobsen' as a starter.

 

[Ethanol]

Are YOU a believer in IQ tests?

Come on most of u still believe in IQ tests. I tried a few online IQ tests recently and one scored me 69 near the dunces and the other scored me 136 that is better than ordinary.

 

[balkan]

That test is stupid...It's ceiling is 168...I still don't understand why I took it...

It compared me to Einstein/Newton(or was that Da Vinci? anyways, I took it a long time ago)...

Anyway, go to iqtest.com, and take the test. That is a logic test, which ACTUALLY tests your intellingence. I got a 162.

that's ridiculous... i got 157 in less than 20 min., with english not being my mother language... I've taken the mensa test and gotten 136... either they rate the iq differently without saying it or it's complete bull****...
any test that isn't timed btw, is basically useless...

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I disagree with non-timed tests being useless. Some people evaluate more options, or things differently. There are people who can do many things fast but cannot do harder things at all. Some people do everything slower but can analyze and solve most things.

IQ tests online aren't very reliable, I've gotten mixed results from various sites. I think 98 - 145 is my IQ range from all the tests I've taken. I'm 16 though, and while most consider it adult IQ, mental capabilities usually aren't fully developed until later, and some continue into the late twenties.

www.highiqsociety.com[/URL] isn't a timed IQ test, or is it? I heard on a show about intelligence that the site originally was given to people and they had a week or something to solve all the problems. The show also said they could use whatever resources they had at their disposal. That could explain why the results are generally lower. People don't want to sit down with a paper and pen crossing off options they've already tried until they achieve an answer. I certainly never want to when I do IQ tests.

They also have an English test which is awkwardly based on Vocabulary. Strange...

 

[Leong]

I took that internet test and don't believe it represents a damn thing.My score was 9.I have to believe that my shoe size is larger than my IQ.

The humblest person is the most dangerous one. anyway it made me laugh.

 

[Tigers2B1]

Mensa doesn't give you the numerical result after you test. In fact there is no true "Mensa Test." There ARE two tests given by Mensa however -- both are standardized and widely used cognitive ability tests. The two tests are given over a three-hour period. The cognitive ability tests used by Mensa are the Wonderlic and the California Test of Mental Maturity. NOW -- being a sports fan, I happen to know that the Wonderlic is not only used by Mensa, not only used by business when deciding appropriate employee training- it's also used to test incoming NFL rookies. Dang! I'll link the related article and Wonderlic NFL results, by position and maybe player, if anyone is interested. No - QBs ain't the "smartest." Anyway - in regards to Mensa - a "Mensa testee" either scores in the top 2% on those standardized tests or he/she doesn't. No 135 - no 105 ---

 

[balkan]

Mensa doesn't give you the numerical result after you test. In fact there is no true "Mensa Test." There ARE two tests given by Mensa however -- both are standardized and widely used cognitive ability tests. The two tests are given over a three-hour period. The cognitive ability tests used by Mensa are the Wonderlic and the California Test of Mental Maturity. NOW -- being a sports fan, I happen to know that the Wonderlic is not only used by Mensa, not only used by business when deciding appropriate employee training- it's also used to test incoming NFL rookies. Dang! I'll link the related article and Wonderlic NFL results, by position and maybe player, if anyone is interested. No - QBs ain't the "smartest." Anyway - in regards to Mensa - a "Mensa testee" either scores in the top 2% on those standardized tests or he/she doesn't. No 135 - no 105 ---

on what planet??
sorry... must be different in america... in denmark you get your numerical score. maybe you forgot to ask for it?

 

[hitssquad]

The average NFL player has an IQ of 98

I'll link the related article and Wonderlic NFL results, by position and maybe player, if anyone is interested. No - QBs ain't the "smartest."

VDare published some articles mentioning the the Wonderlic NFL results.

• The average NFL player has an IQ of 98...
  
  Offensive tackles: 112
  Centers: 110
  Quarterbacks: 108
  Guards: 106
  Tight Ends: 104
  Safeties: 98
  Middle linebackers: 98
  Cornerbacks: 96
  Wide receivers: 94
  Fullbacks: 94
  Halfbacks: 92

 

[Tigers2B1]

on what planet??
sorry... must be different in america... in denmark you get your numerical score. maybe you forgot to ask for it?

Sorry and thanks for the corrrection - I should have said that's how it's done by American Mensa (United States). I have no idea how Mensa works in other countries --

 

[hitssquad]

More NFL IQ scores

Steve Sailer writes in his blog:

• NFL IQs -- It's always fun to look at the IQ scores of pro football draft prospects on the NFL's mandatory Wonderlic test. Here's the latest, converted from the 50 question Wonderlic scoring system where 20 right answers = 100 IQ and each additional right answer is worth 2 points (adapted from AOL -- not on the Web):
  
  Kickers 118 Average -- 5 Prospects
  Centers 115 Average -- 21 Prospects
  Quarterbacks 111 Average -- 21 Prospects
  Offensive Guards 109 Average -- 21 Prospects
  Offensive Tackles 108 Average -- 20 Prospects
  Inside Linebackers 107 Average -- 9 Prospects
  Tight Ends 104 Average -- 19 Prospects
  Fullbacks 104 Average -- 7 Prospects
  Punters 103 Average -- 6 Prospects
  Running Backs 102 Average -- 23 Prospects
  Outside Linebackers 100 Average -- 29 Prospects
  Defensive Ends 99 Average -- 30 Prospects
  Defensive Tackles 99 Average -- 31 Prospects
  Wide Receivers 99 Average -- 50 Prospects
  Safeties 96 Average -- 25 Prospects
  Cornerbacks 95 Average -- 30 Prospects

 

[Alkatran]

Q51. Which one of the following five is least like the other four?
Horse - Zebra - Deer - Moose - Eland

Zebra is the only stripped one, and the only one with a letter in the top half of the alphabet.

Horse is the only one that is domesticated A LOT.

Deer has four letters and Deer are more commonly hunted than the others.

The Moose is the biggest of the bunch. It's also the only one that made it onto "top ten most disgusting animals" for some bizare reason.

The Eland is the only one I've never heard of. All the other ones are more 'common' to Canada.


So... what's the answer?

 

[stefan80302]

wow, does iq testing really matter.
how can it be accurate when it was written by humans to test other humans.
is it not bias since creation.

 

[Alkatran]

wow, does iq testing really matter.
how can it be accurate when it was written by humans to test other humans.
is it not bias since creation.

So... a dog should write it?

 

[stefan80302]

i don't thinkg they should be written at all.
All they are usefull for are arguments.

 

[stefan80302]

or is it
all they are usefull for is arguments
someone correct me

 

[dekoi]

So much emphasis on intelligence capability. Most prosperous people have low IQ's anyway. Why take tests that will only urge immodesty and an arrogant personality? If you’re going to take an IQ test, hopefully you keep it to yourself. :) But that is just my subjective statement.

(no pessimistic behavior was meant)

 

[selfAdjoint]

Most prosperous people have low IQ's anyway

For everyone from poor up to almost rich, there is a strong correlation between IQ and income. In fact IQ predicts income better than papa's income or social class; that research was reported in The Bell Curve.

For the really rich, the correlation fails; they get their money in other ways than by being smarter than the next guy.

 

[stefan80302]

For everyone from poor up to almost rich, there is a strong correlation between IQ and income. In fact IQ predicts income better than papa's income or social class; that research was reported in The Bell Curve.

For the really rich, the correlation fails; they get their money in other ways than by being smarter than the next guy.

Not to be rude but you would not say that unless you are rich and are trying to keep your, I'm just born better, dream alive. Today intelligence plays no role in success, JFK had an IQ of 119, John Gotti had an IQ of 110, and don't even make me say Bush's IQ. I think today more than any other time there is plenty of evidence of how unimportant IQ is, what is important for success ,however, are motivation, connections, and sometimes luck.

 

[recon]

Not to be rude but you would not say that unless you are rich and are trying to keep your, I'm just born better, dream alive. Today intelligence plays no role in success, JFK had an IQ of 119, John Gotti had an IQ of 110, and don't even make me say Bush's IQ. I think today more than any other time there is plenty of evidence of how unimportant IQ is, what is important for success ,however, are motivation, connections, and sometimes luck.

Do people really see Bush as successful? Why did you have to give examples of a Mafia Boss and Presidents as successful people? Anyway, their job does not require a high IQ but, rather, other factors are involved, i.e. as you said, connections, luck, etc. With political careers, IQ doesn't seem to play much of a role. And it really shouldn't, otherwise the politician wouldn't act in the interest of most of the people with average intelligence. One would not elect a president of profound intelligence (IQ 180) because (s)he would not be able to relate to the general population. I think what you meant by 'success' in your post is fame, in which case, luck has a pivotal role.

I actually prefer to look at certain business people and scientists when it comes to looking at successful people. While IQ testing definitely isn't accurate, it gives reasonable predictions for a person's ability for most of the population. Bill Gates wouldn't be where he is today with an IQ of 110; I think he would need at least an IQ of 140 and a whole lot of ingenuity (which is not the same as IQ).

Can you give a few examples where a person of an IQ of less than 100 has been successful in business and science?

 

[dekoi]

Recon: since you seem more knowledgeable in this field, what would you say is the average IQ among the successful american or world population? Again, not just average of the general population; i mean the general among the successful. Any predictions?

Also, what would an average IQ be for a 17 year old male?

 

[dekoi]

I also do not understand why some say IQs of 119 (like JFK) are not very high. That is considerably above average. I find http://www.highiqsociety.com/ to be the best IQ Test, because it is not generous like others. If you have taken another test and have received a score higher than 150, i suggest you take this test.

It goes like something resembling this system:

below 100 = below average (of all ages)

100 = average

100 - 115 (above average, yet normal)

115 - 125 (above average; intelligent)

125 - 140 (very intelligent)

140 and up = extreme genius


I believe Aristotle had an IQ of more than 190. And Einstein about 160.

Everybody thinks that Albert Einstein's IQ was very high, but this is definately not the case, his adult IQ was just above 160. He was definately a genius, but this was not primarily due to his IQ, but his amazing level on transcendental thinking. Transcendental (= raised, sublime) thinking means that he can raise his thinking (i.e. the paths it takes) above the ordinary level. Basically it means that he was extremely creative and imaginative. An IQ score is a combination of brainspeed and brainpower. You have a certain amount of time to take an IQ test, but if you don't mind the time and just make the test and take more time than allowed, you can score up to 30 points higher. So Albert Einstein's IQ was just above 160 (which is also very high) but he takes his time and he raises his thinking to an amazing level and then you can compare him to somebody with an IQ of 200. So Einstein had a lot of brainpower but his brainspeed compared to brainpower was low.

---

I hear (not sure if it was on this forum) that the maximum points which you can increase during your lifetime is 20 (if an effort is put in) and about 5 for a regular life style. is this factual?

 

[recon]

According to the definition of IQ, the average IQ would be 100 for the world's population. As Orion1 wrote in his previous post,

Intelligence Quotient: (IQ)
. a number indicating level of intelligence, obtained by multiplying the mental age by 100 and dividing by the chronological age.

$$I_q = \frac{100 A_m}{A_c}$$

$$A_m = \frac{I_q A_c}{100}$$

This would take into consideration everyone below, at, or above the poverty line. It would also take into consideration different cultures, each with different emphasis on education.

As you can see, quite inevitably, studies have shown that people below the poverty line have lower IQs on average, not because the reason they are poor is because they were stupid in the first place, but because they never really have the opportunity to develop their intelligence to the fullest potential.

I don't quite understand what you mean by 'successful', but I am assuming you are talking about people who are above the poverty line. I don't have any figures (even if there were figures, you should not really believe them) but people who are affluent definely fare better than poor people.

By the age of 17, IQ should have developed to its full potential and doesn't get any better. As far as I know, IQ does not differ from gender to gender. However, since some developing countries place a greater emphasis for males to have an education, some tests may show males to have greater intelligence.

If you look at the definition for IQ, the average IQ, taking into account all 17-year-old males, SHOULD be 100. This figure is inherent to any age group not withstanding racial, cultural and socioeconomic factors.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Not to be rude but you would not say that unless you are rich and are trying to keep your, I'm just born better, dream alive. Today intelligence plays no role in success, JFK had an IQ of 119, John Gotti had an IQ of 110, and don't even make me say Bush's IQ. I think today more than any other time there is plenty of evidence of how unimportant IQ is, what is important for success ,however, are motivation, connections, and sometimes luck.

Anecdotes don't mean a thing compared to studies with large sample sizes. I am not rich, although I made good enough money before I retired, and I don't use IQ for putting others down. But facts are facts, and it's sad to see how many find mental tricks to keep themselves from looking at facts.