Does Religon Show Weakness in Society

[Thallium]

Well, I am a living proof that faith is useful, as are many hundreds of thousands of other human beings. I do not call my faith a 'religion'. That word has a different meaning that my 'faith' has. I am against any religious institutionalization, as it prooves that so many religious leaders are weak, perverted and cruel. But when that is said, my God has given me good relief in times of need and my happiness grounds in my faith.

If you think me an uncivilised, unintelligent animal that has never known a crumb of sanity, then so be it. I'm quite used to skepticism and judgement, as everyone else is.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Does religion make society weak? Well I guess you have to define weak. I really don't know. But maybe I can remind some of the physicists here. We are a collection of quarks, leptons, and messenger particles. That's all we are, and it's futile for people to look for anything more than personal meaning in things like sunsets, marriage, music or anything mundane. Religion may bring up some people's lives a trifle. So if it makes the society weak, it really doesn't matter does it? In the end it won't make a bit of a difference.

Depends on what you believe matters...

I enjoy the idea of the human race progressing its knowledge of the world and universe. I view religon as something that was created to control people and outdated. It's practices when isolated have minmal effect, however when religon tries to prevent scientfic growth it frustrates me. I personally would like to know how our collection of quarks, leptons, and messenger particles got here and if religon is going to get in the way then I believe it does show a weakness in our society. It prevents scientifc growth. Also on an purly ethical standpoint religon has been the source of many useless wars. People believe their relgion is correct, people interpt religon in certain ways, people manipulate religion in certain ways, and often the end result is war and suffering. I value my collection of quarks-- I don't know why I am here, but I enjoy being here and I don't want my life to end because some jackass said that the bible told someone that their religon wants them to kill me. In this fashion religon shows a more primitive state of society that will slowly go be removed as we progress.

Religon is often created to account for the unexplained-- we explain the unexplained there is no need for religon.

 

[TENYEARS]

The study of relgion like science is both a facet of weakness. The weakness comes because the truth is always there in plain site to see. We choose not to and therefore would like to do something more pleasing like this imaginary thing we call life. We all play this joke with ourselves, but deep deep in your mind hiding in the resesses of your soul there in that place you know, yes you do know for I know you. You can only hide from yourself like little rabbit's behind some twigs see me not. To acknowlge truth is a painful experience. It transforms and is sometimes like walking with heavy boots through a deep bog. To see what lies before others and yourself and the future of all. I present the worst, for there is too much hype on the wonderful. These are individuals who do not understand the balance of life. These are the people who will turn a blind eye to it's destruction.

 

[Evo]

My two cents worth, I don't believe in organized religion, but see the need for it for some people. A lot of people are emotionally frail and need the comfort and emotional security organised religion can give them, it is a needed "crutch". One thing that "Born Again Christians" feed on is distraught people's need to feel loved and accepted, that is what these people prey upon. They sell their religion telling people that they will be loved unconditionally, no more hurt, no more pain, it's sad. But a lot of people need and want this. This emotional "crutch" helps them deal with dissapointment and gives them a feeling of "belonging" so I cannot say it weakens them.

A lot of people are like sheep, they need a herder to keep them going in the right direction, they need someone to tell them what to do. Organized religion does this.

Then there are those that don't need or want the mind control of an organized religion, but still believe in a God. This is also ok. These people have a need to feel that there is still something out there that they feel they can turn to as an emotional crutch, a secret "friend" they can talk to. I actually somewhat fall into this category. I don't believe in organized religion, but wish there were some "God" looking out for me. Athough my father was an atheist, my mother was a devout Catholic and that is how I was raised. Unfortunately as I get older and wiser I realize that it's not true, and it makes me a bit sad. It also didn't help that our priest, Father Nelson, who was so cool and funny and kind and understanding, was excommunicated when it was discovered that he had a wife and kids. I was 12. I realized then how wrong religion was. Do as we say or to hell with you, no matter how good of a person you are.

Then there are the wackos. Those people that have lost touch with reality and have given themselves over to the delusion that some imaginary being is actually speaking or working through them for some devine purpose. These are the dangerous ones. Like the mothers recently that killed their chidren because God told them to. Both of these were instances where the parents were religious fanatics, they home schooled their children in order to isolate them from the heretics. I believe that anyone that homeschools children should be put through rigorous psychological testing and monitored closely.

 

[Moses]

Does religion make society weak? Well I guess you have to define weak. I really don't know. But maybe I can remind some of the physicists here. We are a collection of quarks, leptons, and messenger particles. That's all we are, and it's futile for people to look for anything more than personal meaning in things like sunsets, marriage, music or anything mundane. Religion may bring up some people's lives a trifle. So if it makes the society weak, it really doesn't matter does it? In the end it won't make a bit of a difference.

With all my respect, I disagrre very strongly with this way of looking at the Universe and human in Specific, simply if something is "undetected" never means in does exist, like God [Glory an all praise to him] or Soul, or take from another point: I cannot "detect" Alexander the Great...so he does/did not exist... [Message reached?]

Back to the main track:


Evo! you have just put an Axe in my skull but your comment worth a million
Yes! I agree totally with you in ALL the informations you used in order to conclude your result, but if there is ONE organized religio which it is true, we cannot say that ALL of them are not true and bad. Your experience is mainly with Christianity [which in my way of looking at it..it is a really big sect of Judaism..that has its own sects within now...] I am not a Christian nor a Jew, but i still beleif that the Lord God exist more even than i am exist, not a blind fiath, but by proof [Nay, he did come to my in the dreams or something like that]

I pissed off to the max from bilnd-faith people, by logic God will not agree with it, and i think this is reality. Yep! I feel SO SAD, REALLY SAD about the U.S here since religion IS a weakness for the society, despite Christinaty has very good things but in total it is a weakness in the American society. Atheism better? Nop. a one reason form many [ohh, i ve spoke too much ] is that is not "organized" and will trun society to a miss by chaning laws by "majority rules" system and then the "art of tricking" the masses will start.

I am totally unhappy with the guys [ and the girls ] throughout history how "invent" religion or change the Universe Lord's Message. They desory lots of masses these big losers. I am sure that my Lord is not happy with what they did as well.

 

[TENYEARS]

My two cents worth, I don't believe in organized religion, but see the need for it for some people. A lot of people are emotionally frail and need the comfort and emotional security organised religion can give them, it is a needed "crutch". One thing that "Born Again Christians" feed on is distraught people's need to feel loved and accepted, that is what these people prey upon. They sell their religion telling people that they will be loved unconditionally, no more hurt, no more pain, it's sad. But a lot of people need and want this. This emotional "crutch" helps them deal with dissapointment and gives them a feeling of "belonging" so I cannot say it weakens them.

A lot of people are like sheep, they need a herder to keep them going in the right direction, they need someone to tell them what to do. Organized religion does this.

Then there are those that don't need or want the mind control of an organized religion, but still believe in a God. This is also ok. These people have a need to feel that there is still something out there that they feel they can turn to as an emotional crutch, a secret "friend" they can talk to. I actually somewhat fall into this category. I don't believe in organized religion, but wish there were some "God" looking out for me. Athough my father was an atheist, my mother was a devout Catholic and that is how I was raised. Unfortunately as I get older and wiser I realize that it's not true, and it makes me a bit sad. It also didn't help that our priest, Father Nelson, who was so cool and funny and kind and understanding, was excommunicated when it was discovered that he had a wife and kids. I was 12. I realized then how wrong religion was. Do as we say or to hell with you, no matter how good of a person you are.

Then there are the wackos. Those people that have lost touch with reality and have given themselves over to the delusion that some imaginary being is actually speaking or working through them for some devine purpose. These are the dangerous ones. Like the mothers recently that killed their chidren because God told them to. Both of these were instances where the parents were religious fanatics, they home schooled their children in order to isolate them from the heretics. I believe that anyone that homeschools children should be put through rigorous psychological testing and monitored closely.

Evo, much of what you say is all true, but because the real purpose is lost in the suffle. We follow but do not see, is that true with only religion? It seems we do that with every facet of life. There will be those who have the need to see in all they do and those who will see in little. Why are they this way? Is it their inability? No. It is something else something human something unfulfilled.

Evo, do not be afraid to let go for there is something there for you. I would like to see an Evo that has that experience. To be free is what we search for. It is our need, our true desire and our destiny. Yes there are born agains who are that way, but there are born agains who are not. There is a phrase when there are two or more gathered in his name. I tell you this and I say it with more certainty than anything written through out all time. If you bring two or more in that name with that in mind look out. I have never been amoung more than one, I would fear two many. For in those moments there is a potential I would lose more of myself. That is what we all fear and yet that is what we all want. Lol

 

[Thallium]

My two cents worth, I don't believe in organized religion, but see the need for it for some people. A lot of people are emotionally frail and need the comfort and emotional security organised religion can give them, it is a needed "crutch". One thing that "Born Again Christians" feed on is distraught people's need to feel loved and accepted, that is what these people prey upon. They sell their religion telling people that they will be loved unconditionally, no more hurt, no more pain, it's sad. But a lot of people need and want this. This emotional "crutch" helps them deal with dissapointment and gives them a feeling of "belonging" so I cannot say it weakens them.

A lot of people are like sheep, they need a herder to keep them going in the right direction, they need someone to tell them what to do. Organized religion does this.

Then there are those that don't need or want the mind control of an organized religion, but still believe in a God. This is also ok. These people have a need to feel that there is still something out there that they feel they can turn to as an emotional crutch, a secret "friend" they can talk to. I actually somewhat fall into this category. I don't believe in organized religion, but wish there were some "God" looking out for me. Athough my father was an atheist, my mother was a devout Catholic and that is how I was raised. Unfortunately as I get older and wiser I realize that it's not true, and it makes me a bit sad. It also didn't help that our priest, Father Nelson, who was so cool and funny and kind and understanding, was excommunicated when it was discovered that he had a wife and kids. I was 12. I realized then how wrong religion was. Do as we say or to hell with you, no matter how good of a person you are.

Then there are the wackos. Those people that have lost touch with reality and have given themselves over to the delusion that some imaginary being is actually speaking or working through them for some devine purpose. These are the dangerous ones. Like the mothers recently that killed their chidren because God told them to. Both of these were instances where the parents were religious fanatics, they home schooled their children in order to isolate them from the heretics. I believe that anyone that homeschools children should be put through rigorous psychological testing and monitored closely.

Evo, I am disappointed. My impression of you was that you were a bright, mature woman. Hee I can see nothing but prejudgement. But I do not ask for anything else.

I don't believe in organized religion either. That is manipulation and may cause mass pressure. I am not emotionally frail. That is not why I believe in God. Perhaps, if it be to your liking, we should reconsider how we raise our future(children) and remove those frail fragments of our society. That way, we will have only intellectuals left - people with high moral - and not the craze and savage that faith breeds amond the weaker evolutionary setbacks in our society.

I do not belong anywhere, Evo. I never go to church because I am not too fond of the bondings that are created there between the members. How they depend on one another and others' opinions on what to do and what not to do. I do sense a mild form of condemnation in your message.

Though, you are partly right in your analysis about organized religions and their function as a guide. I'm neither a fan of such fanatics. Sometimes, when I hold other Christians in regard and observe their "insanity", their utter loss of reality, I am sad. Still, I know that, there are other powers. That is what i believe. As it is with everything in the Universe. Different forces fight each other all the time.

I do hope you will take back some of your prejudice though.

 

[Thallium]

...do not be afraid to let go for there is something there for you. I would like to see an Evo that has that experience. To be free is what we search for. It is our need, our true desire and our destiny. Yes there are born agains who are that way, but there are born agains who are not. There is a phrase when there are two or more gathered in his name. I tell you this and I say it with more certainty than anything written through out all time. If you bring two or more in that name with that in mind look out. I have never been amoung more than one, I would fear two many. For in those moments there is a potential I would lose more of myself. That is what we all fear and yet that is what we all want. Lol

Such riddles are sickening. This message seems to me nothing but delusive and New Age-inspired. Being part of the world soul etc. And the ultimate goal is pleasure. I just read about it. You talk as if you were a herder. What kind of prophetic gift do you suppose that you possess?

 

[Moses]

$%^%^*&$%#%@#%%&^$
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#@$$#%^&^$$%&^*&*(%&^

Ok, i did the above so more people will read the next i will right, and may be think in depth about it:

Why we judge all religions by JUST looking at Christianity and its former era..Judaism? And we use our media propaganda is a tool to see other religions?

If the God truly loves us, He will send us a guide and he will NEVER, make us having time on this planet without "saved" revelation of his orders to us [at least the "last edition" of the laws] since the Faith will always be the same...

I am sure that there is some where...even we do not find it yet...or we do not even think that "This religion" IS the one since we have not start thinknig critically thinknig about it

May The-God help us all and guide us all obey Him, not the lsoers who speak in His name and His religion and they are liers..and fools...

 

[Thallium]

If God truly loves you, you must believe that he does. A relationship with God is not a monologue.

 

[Moses]

Well, Thallium, i agrre that the relation ship with God should be from both sides..we human and Him..

Still, on of the thingys that He is grat is even of people "rebel" against
Him, he still provide them with resources [food, drink,love..etc] till the exam time is finished on this planet...and sometimes he punishes too in this life...if it must be accoring to His Wisdom.

Roman Empire fall down against the muslims and the Persina Empire as well, the main reason for that is both societies, were lacking good balance between the spirits and the matter, which make the army weak in hte hard hours... While the muslims army was having a great advantage in that side, and a great disadvantage in numbers of army and weapon..still won...

 

[Evo]

Evo, I am disappointed. My impression of you was that you were a bright, mature woman. Hee I can see nothing but prejudgement. But I do not ask for anything else. <snip> I do hope you will take back some of your prejudice though.

I would say I am opinionated as opposed to prejudiced. As I mentioned I feel there is a need and a place for both organized religion (which I disagree with) and the need for someone to believe in a God. I also mentioned that I would like to believe that there is a wonderful, loving God that can be my invisible best friend, but I have to admit that I don't believe it. I'm actually serious, I wish there were some evidence, any evidence that God is not man made. If someone needs either of these things, I'm all for it (as long as they do not try to impose their beliefs on me).

[quote-Thallium]I am not emotionally frail. That is not why I believe in God.

When I said "Then there are those that don't need or want the mind control of an organized religion, but still believe in a God. This is also ok. These people have a need to feel that there is still something out there that they feel they can turn to as an emotional crutch, a secret "friend" they can talk to." I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully. I wasn't implying they are emotionally weak, but they want/need to feel there is something out there looking after them, that they are never "alone". I am basing this on reasons people that believe in God have given me.

I'd be interested in hearing why you believe in God.

 

[TENYEARS]

Such riddles are sickening. This message seems to me nothing but delusive and New Age-inspired. Being part of the world soul etc. And the ultimate goal is pleasure. I just read about it. You talk as if you were a herder. What kind of prophetic gift do you suppose that you possess?

The purpose of the truth is not pleasure for in the end there is no eternal Joy no more than there is eternal pain but there is eternal. You project what you read like we all do to some extent on to whatever you see and experience. The whole forum does it including myself foolishly so. I know people in my life who have call me a prophet on multiple occasions. I am not. God selects no one and yet out of god the universe was born and all things into infinity. I can and do have visions of the future which do indeed happen as I know they will when I have them. I also have experienced other things. These things are not some special law defing force but is part of the natural human condition. When the leaves are ready they fall from the tree. If you pick them prematurely you damage the tree if they stay to long they also may damage the tree. My riddles come from me and they are born from a place with no beginning and no end. We all come from there and as your mind opens to this as a witness you will see and experience the universe in that slow walk towards your destiny.

 

[Moses]

For me, one of the biggest reasons that why i am not Christian [nor a Jew] but still beleving in God is these two faiths HAVE a weakness in their argument that they from God...I like what Prophet Jesus [BTW:i think he is not God, and even Christians cannot say that he EVER claim so..]
said once: Build your faith on the Rock...

TENYEARS, with all my respect, by just mere logic i cannot believe that what you said is true..unless you proof it to me, I am not saying that you are a lier, but i have the right to believe by proof and thus in a rational way...same thingy about Jesus, Moses and other prophets who people claimed that they did miracles...I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THAT by heaaring about it, since it is a weak proof to build religion on a weak historical resource [aka Bible, with all my deep respect for Christians here]. However, it is proven to me through another way, and i found it a valid proof..[ which is not our topic in this thread..]

Human made religions may organize society...as any goverments despite how bad it is keep the society organized to sum extened regardless of how crab this govement is. But God-Religion IS the system which make the society stronger...a Perfect resource [God] of a system cannot fail in using that system to reach His aim [organizing societies in micro and macro levels, if that system is applied]

 

[Chronos]

Evolution is not flawed in principle. It correctly assumes that life as we know it is the result of a causal sequence of events: constrained first by the age of the universe, and second, the earliest age afterwards it was possible for life to emerge.

 

[Moses]

Well, i will not discuess the evolution theory here,
But by seeing some thoeris as evolution,
I can say as well that some scientiest were planned to destroy humanity and morals by their wrong stupid claims, "As Darwin sayin dat African are closer to monkeys than European white man, and thus it is natural that the white man will whipe the Black man according to the competition [forgot the enlish word] on resources...DARWIN IS A LOSER..the only fact i am sure form it from my first glance looking at his stupid claims...

Still, lots of evolution staff does not condratics my faith, but may contradict Christianity..which itself contradict with science in many places sand science wins usually [except here about evolution, Christianity achieve total victory against Darwin...]

I might be out of track a little bit..and hoping we can discuess this in new/another thread...

 

[Thallium]

Tenyears, I did not call you a prophet. I feel that your views are somewhat New Age-inspred. Which god are you talking about?

Evo, excuse my rudeness, but I think you want to know why I believe in God so that you may understand more of the craziness of believers. I mean no harm, but I cannot help being skeptic. I believe in God because I chose to. I have had my doubts of course, but I can feel God's safety and love whenever I am willing to, when I pray and spend time thinking about God. I never take part in rituals and I dislike the idea that traditions are important. The most important element in my faith is my free contact with God. I pray that God will use me to do good to others. So when I act unkindly, that is a cause of m beng tempted by my human nature. My rage, my irritation and so on. That was a little more than you had asked for, Evo, but I hope it is not to your disliking. ;)

 

[TENYEARS]

Lol, it was not you or anyone on this forum which called me a prophet and since there is or never was such a thing the words are irrelevant. Like I said god chooses no one. There is only one god out of which all things were created as physics will one day understand. lol My understanding comes from seeing the almighty, from having visions, from seeing another healed with physical evidence and a physical by product outside himself. By understanding what gravity is what matter is. This is what creates the words that come out of my mouth or that pour through my fingers. Then again, has anything other than that ever caused anything?

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Weakness is in all societies, it is everywhere, from physical to social structures, and indeed it is omnipresent in humans. BUT I think religion is vital in binding people with different ideals, together; people who would not usually come together do because of their similar belief in a god or figure or divinity.
Yes, religion may be a means to define what we don’t know, what science cannot tell us - but is not much of science undefined and unproven itself? We cannot be so quick to say religion shows weakness in society – religion gives peace of mind to those who believe it, and to those who don’t it gives them a wondering sensation, makes them think: is it true? And if a persuasive leader, someone of authority comes along and says “God exists,” they’re going to turn a few heads, and make people wonder if they are correct in saying ‘there is no god’.
If we look back into history, for example, we can see how leaders manipulated religion, or lead the masses or the church structure to protect their divine sovereignty. Take the great Napoleon I, for example; he remodelled the Catholic church in the early 1800's so he could strengthen his society, every Sunday he had his priests, ex-monks and cardinals preaching his word, perverting the bible (like MANY, many people have done) to suit his ideals, propaganda infiltrated those people every week, they hear ‘Napoleon is a divine leader, follow him, for he is the second coming,’ once, and they dismiss it – after a year or two of hearing it, they believe it…what I’m saying is that religion brings people together, it is a means to define life and death, and it is a way of getting political support; this masterpiece of either completely false gospel or celestial truth does certainally not show weakness in society.

When you speak of your examples... does this not show the weakness of society. Religon is a tool, a useful tool to control people. It can bring a sense of hope to people. This fact alone shows how it is a weakness... it shows that we are in the first stages of evolution. We will eventually not need to be told how things we don't understand happened. Posidon will not control the seas forever.

Relgion just shows how humans can be molded.

Also your comments about
"religion is vital in binding people with different ideals, together; people who would not usually come together do because of their similar belief in a god or figure or divinity. " is also incorrect in my opinion. Relgion brings isolated people together... true, but when you view it from a larger standpoint is has been the thing that has prevented people from comming together as a whole. In bringinging isolated people together you create barriers whose thickness still plagues our society today. Religon has been the root cause of many wars... people like Napolean use religon to manipulate people to fight for their own motives. In this fact religon is a weakness of society.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

The arrogance is beyond me. If you little fools and old fools alike only understood. Your responses are out of weakness. Out of unconscious unused mind. Young stupid fools. My answer is YES. For the it is out of weakness that even science is formed. You must create a method for the thing you do not understand. If you understand it, experience it what is there to create? Once the one who unerstood is gone there is a need to fill a void because why? Because you are not experiening what they did.

Understanding creates what is perceived as strength. It is not strength, it is that in pure understanding there can be no fear only understanding because the experiencer is in a pure state of witness which leaves nothing left for fear.

could you please restate this ... I think I am getting what you are saying but I want to make sure I have what you meant correct.

 

[Evo]

Evo, excuse my rudeness, but I think you want to know why I believe in God so that you may understand more of the craziness of believers. I mean no harm, but I cannot help being skeptic. I believe in God because I chose to. I have had my doubts of course, but I can feel God's safety and love whenever I am willing to, when I pray and spend time thinking about God. I never take part in rituals and I dislike the idea that traditions are important. The most important element in my faith is my free contact with God. I pray that God will use me to do good to others. So when I act unkindly, that is a cause of m beng tempted by my human nature. My rage, my irritation and so on. That was a little more than you had asked for, Evo, but I hope it is not to your disliking. ;)

No, you said that your belief in God wasn't for emotional reasons or the need to feel you aren't alone, which I said were the reasons usually stated by people that didn't buy into organized religion, but still maintained a belief in God. I was sincerely wondering what your reasons were.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Darwin wasn't a loser. His theories were very insightful regardless of whether they were right or not. Concerning the offensive claim he may have made towards white men whiping out the black men, that was probably incorrect. However, if white men are more evolved on average then it would make sense that black men would eventially become a minority.

This has idea has no real signifigance. Why are black men referred to as black men still? There are few instances where it is necessary to make reference to a black man. Black skin should be considered a variation, like black hair, green eyes, or large hands. If some black men are on average less evolved and can't keep up with society, they might become a minority or end up in lower conditions. We already see this in countries. I don't see how this correlates with prejudice or any prejudice Darwin may or may not have had.

 

[Chronos]

Religion suffers the same problem as any other non-mathematical approach to describing reality. Organized religion is, I think, not nearly so much a belief system as it is a sociological mechanism to establish and impose social order. It has evolved into the generally more efficient [and less bloody] form of modern governments and the rule of law. Organized religion has, and rightly so, been subsumed under the umbrella of politics. The need for such subcultures will inevitably decline, assuming government and the rule of law becomes increasingly utilitarian. Personal belief systems need not, and should not driven out of society. We simply will outgrow the urge to unjustly impose them on others. It is a good thing to have personal principles, and a sense of purpose and responsibility to promote the welfare of the local and global community. I believe there is a higher order than serving personal interests and ambitions: promoting the survival and advancement of all humanity. Is that a religion or must you have a higher authority, a God, to appeal to? Are you weak if you do and strong if you don't, or vice-versa?

 

[Thallium]

TenYears, I understand what you are saying ,except, which God do you believe in? Has this God left any words for Mankind, like the Bible. the Koran or anything else? Or is he but a vision, a pantheistic being that you with your own eyes, and only yours, can see inside of your surroundings?

 

[Moses]

Well, I DO BELEIVE in God, and my reasons are not build in emotion. [ I HATE to have a blind faith...simply]

There is a saying from Prophet Mohammad [Last muslim prophet, as what muslims claimed] which i found it explain in a way the emotional part we are spekaing about here, he is saying -narrating from his God-:

[I created all me servant "humans" obeying me and beleiving in me, then the evil doers make them corrupted and take thme away from their religion]

The saying of that man [Mohammad] which he claims he is sended to us by God sounds exactly sa what i think persoanlly: We Do have in our nature "emotions" to believe in God, in addition to the logical proof i.e. God greated us with an emotional potential to believe in Him. This never by any way mean that the logical process to proof God has to be mix with emotions...

 

[Moses]

Well, TENYEARS, I do totally agree with you that if we NEED religion it means we are WEAK, YES, but this apply to all humans, even athiests are WEAK in ths case...imagin how all of us are weak that we need food, drink, [religion?]..etc I totallly agree if you took the question from this angle,

However, we here took the Q from the point which is : Is a sociecty weak if it has religion running in the society? [I will not discuess in this pot about that]

I will clarify more the way we saw the Q by mentioning it in the opposite way: If the society does not have a religion going in it, is it a sign that it is strong?

The way you see the Q and you answer upon it i totally agree about it [ agree about the YES] I will found it odd if somebody will disagree from the members here

 

[TENYEARS]

could you please restate this ... I think I am getting what you are saying but I want to make sure I have what you meant correct.

Tom if I explain it I join science and religion and if I do not maybe you will understand them. If so god help you.

 

[TENYEARS]

TenYears, I understand what you are saying ,except, which God do you believe in? Has this God left any words for Mankind, like the Bible. the Koran or anything else? Or is he but a vision, a pantheistic being that you with your own eyes, and only yours, can see inside of your surroundings?

Thallium, I do not believe in god. I saw god and my god is the god which is only in one place and that is the place we all need to look. When we look in that place will you be able to find a place where god is not? My vision was not of a relative object but of a mind of which I was part of that extended beyond my skin. There was a day when I witnessed the very facet of creation itself. I was very very young, but that experience was I suppose one of the most profound. I am just a normal person When you read words of another you see the compression of sometimes a lifetime of thought and yet on a day to day experience we trudge forward doing what we need to do. There is no eternal utopia no savior and yet there is no external pain but there is an eternal and that is fair but most of all that is reality. In someways reality itself seems uncomprenshible and yet what is even more so which people will one day understand is that the present day view is even more logically incomprehensible.

 

[TENYEARS]

Well, TENYEARS, I do totally agree with you that if we NEED religion it means we are WEAK, YES, but this apply to all humans, even athiests are WEAK in ths case.

Lol I was going to post that myself about athiests. Belief in any form is weakness for true strength which is not really strength is not believing and not deciding. It is clearing away and waiting until the pressure from the void created by a desire to see opens us to the reality that is. Honesty and the desire to understand will pave the way for anyone.

Happy Thanksgiving to all even if you do not celebrate. May you find truth in today and all that you see.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.

 

[misogynisticfeminist]

How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.

I don't believe that there's such a thing as "no belief". Belief dominates our lives in one way or another. Even the disbelief of a supreme diety still constitutes a belief.

And belief in the "truth", my, sounds a little like a preacher.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

I wasn't referring to religion with truth... sorry. I meant for example something like a person who believes the Earth is a cube versus someone who believes the Earth is an oblate spheroid. I believe that latter and i can back it up with scientific data... i believe in the truth... In religon it is impossible to ahve truth currently...

infact does anyone ever think that religon will be able to be disproved...

 

[Moses]

Tom McCurdy,
i think that religion could be disproved, and could be proved as well...

Simply, if X religion is from God, and that X religion shown a proof that it is from God, thus it is from God.

Now we have reached the bottom question of accepting religion according to me: Using mind ONLY, can that X religion supprot its claim that it is from God, i.e a "proper correct" religion? If it does, thus it is from God and it is proofed in this way, and vise versa.

In this way, I do have a religion, and after a really, really indepth analysis i chose mine [it is not our topic here what is my religion, i guess!] and in the same way i disprove other religions, even the level of disproving that i conclude was different from one rleiiogn to another

[i.e some i conclude that they are absolutely or vast majority not from God. some i can clearly see that their origin are from God but then people changed it so these religions become "out of the track", and the one i had i conclude it is form God, even many people did mistakes and put their own issues while practising it which it is totally wrong, but the pure true info still there for anyone to pick easily...]

An important issue to notify, the proofs that i found them valid are by no means less than the proof you know to believe that the Earth is as what you believe... [imean not less in strength]

 

[Tom McCurdy]

proving religon

proving religon indeed is possible...


if all of a sudden all the christians disappear... **** I guess I was wrong.
more to come... out of time

 

[Tom McCurdy]

th3 point is that religon is weakness... its humans comming up with ways to control others and to explain what otherwise can't be explained.