Donald Trump Running for President

[William White]

Well, of course, the perfect politican would be well-informed on everything, and happen to share the same opinions as I do...As for free speech, as soon as somebody says they agree, "but..." then my alert rings

No buts.

Yes, there are responsibilities that come with ALL rights. That's a different thing altogether.

The famous example of shouting fire in a packed cinema is NOT a good example of "but". If one crys wolf, there are ways to deal with a real breach of the peace rather than curtailing freedom of speech.

 

[WWGD]

Well, of course, the perfect politican would be well-informed on everything, and happen to share the same opinions as I do...As for free speech, as soon as somebody says they agree, "but..." then my alert rings

No buts.

Yes, there are responsibilities that come with ALL rights. That's a different thing altogether.

The famous example of shouting fire in a packed cinema is NOT a good example of "but". If one crys wolf, there are ways to deal with a real breach of the peace rather than curtailing freedom of speech.

In a(n) (more) ideal world, I would agree with you. And then no rules would be necessary. Yes, I do get your point , which is a good one, though, and maybe I am being somewhat self-serving here.

 

[William White]

Trump has stuck his head above the parapet.

He's enjoying the view at the moment.

But there IS a reason politicians are politicians (and why they give politicians answers to questions). Every hack in the land will be investiging his past. He has opened himself up to a world of pain that is going to end in flames. Someone like him WILL have skeletons in the cupboard. You don't get on in business (to his level) without stepping on people and pissing them off!. Those people will be crawling out the woodwork soon enough.

 

[William White]

Dump that Trump

 

[WWGD]

Well, of course, the perfect politican would be well-informed on everything, and happen to share the same opinions as I do...

<Snip>

The famous example of shouting fire in a packed cinema is NOT a good example of "but". If one crys wolf, there are ways to deal with a real breach of the peace rather than curtailing freedom of speech.

I was thinking more of the cases where someone publicly listed the home addresses of doctors who performed abortions , some of whom were attacked afterwards, or about this lady who gave the home address of the "Lion Killer". Should that be allowed?

 

[William White]

YES

I think if we live in public, then we are open to the public. I live in the UK. I am on the electoral role, so my address is public for those that wish to find it.

Assaults are best dealt with by bringing the law down on the person committing the assault using the laws against assault. If there was aiding and abetting (ie the person supplied information in full knowledge that the information would lead to a crime) then that person should be prosecuted for assault too.The danger in the question you pose, is that, like everything you have to draw a line in the sand. Person A says they demand privacy for reason x; then Person B comes along and demands privacy and you have a merry go round of lawyers and courts and gagging orders and injunctions (which of course, is already happening)

We have laws that deal with breaches of the peace, threatening behaviour, etc. My gut instinct is that any curtailing of freedom of speech is wrong and open to abuse. Let people speak freely and deal with the consequences afterwards.BTW I live in a country where freedom of speech is being destroyed. The odious Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 being a prime example.

Curtailing speech does not curtail ideas. It makes them hidden and more dangerous.

 

[mr166]

The fact that Trump is even considered to be a contender is solely due to the utter failure of the Republican party to provide a candidate willing to espouse values other than those approved by the Main Stream Media!

He, Ted Cruz and Dr. Ben Carson are the only candidates that are willing to offer a conservative agenda. The Republicans are fools if they think that they will win trying to out democrat the Democrats.

 

[JonDE]

WWGD if you judge Trump only on his stand about criminals entering the US you are mistaken. He also is very vocal about American Exceptionalism, exporting jobs offshore and insuring that the US negotiates trade deals that are in the best interest of the US. He is the exact type person that the founders of the US envisioned running the country. They did not want to see professional politicians running the country but civilians that would serve for a limited period of time and then return to their chosen field.

Do you have a source for that? If so, why did so many of them become career politicians. Just look at James Monroe, the last president who was a founding father. He was a Senator, minister to France, minister to the UK, two time governor, secretary of state and president. Madison was a congressman (8 years), secretary of state (8 years), president (8 years), total of 24 years. Jefferson, was a governor, ambassador, secretary of state, VP, and pres, serving a total of 21 years.

 

[William White]

Can a old school conservative (or rather a White, English, Protestant) win in the USA?

The faces and attitudes of the country are changing?

 

[Finny]

Can a old school conservative (or rather a White, English, Protestant) win in the USA? The faces and attitudes of the country are changing?

We have two essentials for family: a peaceful country administered under law coupled with high productivity. Well, we used to have both. Why do you think so many want to come to the US? It's NOT for the things rampant in, say, Zimbabwe, Syria or even Mexico. Dictators,drug cartels, religious extremism...not so popular with most.

Somebody should give it a try! Responsible finances, family, freedom of religion,building a future your kids and grand kids. In other words run government like you would like your family run...compassion,support, and building a future. Great fodder for Trump:
U.S. wage growth brakes in second-quarter; consumer sentiment slips
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-economy-idUSKCN0Q51I320150731

If a business man can't explain this to the American people, we are doomed.

 

[mr166]

"Can a old school conservative (or rather a White, English, Protestant) win in the USA? The faces and attitudes of the country are changing? "
Perhaps not, but do you see today's Democratic party trying to meet conservatives half way? No, they are willing to take a stand on their beliefs and not compromise them. I respect them for that even though I do not agree with them on many issues. The Republicans can never win unless they motivate their conservative base to vote for them. As a staunch Conservative I would vote for the Socialist Bernie Saunders, who at least says what he believes, before I would vote for someone like say John Boehner who says one thing, does another and stands for nothing other than getting re-elected.

 

[Finny]

Jeb has been advised to "pull a Hillary"...but why??
This doesn't seem to work so well for her...

"...When Jeb Bush and Donald Trump share a debate stage next week, Bush needs to ignore the real estate mogul at all costs —and if that fails, laugh him off.

That’s the advice given by more than half of the POLITICO Caucus, our weekly, bipartisan survey of the top activists, operatives and strategists in Iowa and New Hampshire.

“The old maxim applies: Never wrestle with a pig,” counseled a New Hampshire Republican. “You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”...

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...t-engage-with-trump-120845.html#ixzz3hV0r8LKe

 

[mr166]

The amnesty question in the US goes way beyond the 20 million or so illegal immigrants here now. Most of the citizens of the US would be more than glad to grant them a pathway to citizenship if the borders were sealed. It IS a question of controlling our borders and setting a workable immigration policy. If you can show me ONE major country that has totally open borders and still manages to function as a homogenous unit I will change my view on the need to enforce US laws.

 

[Finny]

Strange bedfellows for sure:
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump? How can this be?

"...Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) found himself at odds with some immigration reform advocates Thursday, defending his 2007 vote against a comprehensive immigration bill and telling an audience hosted by the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that "open borders" were a threat to American jobs.

Sanders said. "What I think {Wall Street} is interested in is seeing a process by which we can bring low-wage labor into this county."

... "What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that."

Many progressives do believe in that. They've argued for it, in the face of opposition from many labor unions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/

 

[mr166]

"
"What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them."

And the Left wing, exclusive of Bernie I guess, wants open borders because of the potential votes it represents. Boy is the US screwed!

 

[mr166]

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/11/o...o-the-idea-of-citizen-politicians-932989.html

"Do you have a source for that? If so, why did so many of them become career politicians. Just look at James Monroe, the last president who was a founding father."

Here you go JonDE

 

[Finny]

Here is another great opportunity for Trump to stump [stomp] the establishment:
He should proclaim:

"If elected I will not pass any legislation which has unrelated riders attached. I will require that every senator and every house member voting for each bill attest they have actually read the bill." edit: and pay for the spending.

The Senate Republicans this weekend attached an amendment resurrecting a big corporation welfare program called the Export Import bank to the 'must pass' highway bill. This is government largess at its worst. Paying off cronies. And not even funding the Highway Bill. Another stop gap with more deficit spending. May daughter can't afford all this!

Conservatives have been fighting to stop the Export-Import Bank that loans billions of dollars to foreign companies and countries to buy products from big corporations like GE, Caterpillar and Boeing... Even the CEO of Boeing said the Export-Import Bank wasn’t needed.

If I had a personality, I'd run!

 

[JonDE]

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/11/o...o-the-idea-of-citizen-politicians-932989.html

"Do you have a source for that? If so, why did so many of them become career politicians. Just look at James Monroe, the last president who was a founding father."

Here you go JonDE

That is written as a letter to the editor. After googling the person's name, it appears she works for a paper company as a supervisor. Here is my source arguing the opposite. The federalist paper #62 written by James Madison.

. It is not possible that an assembly of men called for the most part from pursuits of a private nature, continued in appointment for a short time, and led by no permanent motive to devote the intervals of public occupation to a study of the laws, the affairs, and the comprehensive interests of their country, should, if left wholly to themselves, escape a variety of important errors in the exercise of their legislative trust

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa62.htm

 

[mr166]

Thanks for the link JonDE. I will have to do a little more research and see if Madison represented the majority at that time.

 

[jim hardy]

I was raised in the 50's and 60's
high school reading included Henry Thoreau
we idolized iconoclastic nonconformists like Zorba the Greek and Murray Burns (of "A Thousand Clowns) and later on Kurt Vonnegut's characters

though i was probably more of "A Rebel Without a Clue" .

still the appeal of somebody who rocks the boat is strong.

I'm not sure Trump is president material
but he's no mealy-mouth lackey either.

The body politic needs a KITA. Maybe his contribution will be as a catalyst.

 

[mr166]

JH the US political system is in a really dangerous state. Yes, the Republicans made some symbolic noise during the first 2 years of Obama's administration. But this was when they were in the minority in both houses and could not win. When they won the house of representatives in 2010 all real opposition stopped. Sure there was some lip service but there was no real attempt to defeat the Democratic agenda to date. Thus we really have a one party system and therein lies Trump's appeal. Can we ever return to a system that is not controlled by a few cronies?

 

[mr166]

George Washington almost went bankrupt because he was serving his country and could not attend to his business whereas the Republicans are afraid to take any sort of political stand for fear of not getting reelected.

 

[Dembadon]

An interview with Trump concerning his views/concerns about other GOP candidates:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/43923546...hment/?playlist_id=928378949001#sp=show-clips

In the section where he was asked to come up with a question for each candidate, I was surprised by what he said his question would be for J. Bush: "Do you have the energy to get out there and do it?" Pretty weak, if you ask me. Was he simply caught off-guard by Bolling's scenario?

I also noticed a different tone from Trump, something he's stated would change if he were elected:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/politics/donald-trump-anderson-cooper/

He's much less inflammatory/retaliatory in the interview than I've been used to seeing. Perhaps he's realizing one can't rely on shock-value alone in a presidential campaign?

 

[mr166]

Trump is the most determined business man that I have ever seen. You have to be relentless to deal with the New York City Planning and Zoning boards in order to get your plans approved. There is always huge pressure put on these boards by advocacy groups to deny permits and preserve the Status Quo. Trump knows politics and how to deal with it. I would not put it past him to build a 20 story 2000 mile long condominium along the Mexican border and end the problem once and for all. You do not want to mess with condo boards.

 

[mr166]

In fact I heard that is how he plans to pay down the entire US national debt. The US will build it, he will sell it for a small trillion dollar or so commission and bingo, problem solved. Not feasible, well show me ANY other plan that our glorious politicians have put forth to solve both problems at once.

 

[mr166]

Hot off the wires,,,,, He plans to name it the Great Wall of Trump!

 

[WWGD]

In fact I heard that is how he plans to pay down the entire US national debt. The US will build it, he will sell it for a small trillion dollar or so commission and bingo, problem solved. Not feasible, well show me ANY other plan that our glorious politicians have put forth to solve both problems at once.

The whole venture will go broke and then trump will declare bankruptcy and refuse to pay his creditors,

 

[mr166]

"The whole venture will go broke and then trump will declare bankruptcy and refuse to pay his creditors,"

Kind of like GM and Chrysler eh!

 

[WWGD]

"The whole venture will go broke and then trump will declare bankruptcy and refuse to pay his creditors,"

Kind of like GM and Chrysler eh!

Actually, I understand they have paid their debt back. Mainstream is not too great, but trump is not much better either.

 

[jim hardy]

Kind of like GM and Chrysler eh!

Iceland, Argentina , Greece , ...

 

[mr166]

WWGD the original GM bond holders were really raped by the bankruptcy court which invented new laws to enable the government to own the company.. They never got the full amount back. The taxpayers lost about 10 billion also.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/09/u-s-sells-remaining-stake-in-gm/?_r=0

But that being said, GM looks to be healthy now so the 10 billion was well spent I guess.

 

[mr166]

Iceland is the poster child for how one should handle a debt crisis. They told the banks go to hell and let the chips fall where they may. Soon after the recovery started.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/17/the-miraculous-story-of-iceland/

 

[mr166]

Historically in a bankruptcy the bondholders are first on line to receive payment while others come last. This did not happen in the GM bankruptcy. The courts rewrote case law to allow the government to take it over without proper remuneration to the bondholders . So in reality, the government stole GM from the bondholders and then sold it debt free or with greatly reduced debt to the shareholders.

 

[jim hardy]

So in reality, the government stole GM from the bondholders and then sold it debt free or with greatly reduced debt to the shareholders.

shareholders or bondholders ?

Uncle Sam didn't pay the creditors, eh ? Wait'll we stiff China...

 

[mr166]

JH the shareholders lost any claim to GM once GM defaulted on the bonds. A bond is similar to a mortgage in that respect. If you don't pay the debt you lose the property.