Einstein's Intelligence Quiz ?

[davee123]

Are you saying that the puzzle has a solution and the solution is "The puzzle does not have a solution.". I reject this.

So, you HAVEN'T been reading. See my prior post:

The valid answers to this problem ARE, quite definitively one of:
A) The German owns the fish
B) If anyone of the 5 people does own the fish, it is the German
C) There is no solution

1) is explicitly wrong because if the German could own a fish, yet it is also the case that the German might not own a fish. Then the puzzle would indeed be unsolvable. The puzzle is not unsolvable. Therefore, reductio ad absurdum, the German does not own a fish.

Ok, I'm going to stop after this because you're just not listening. Seriously, if I don't post again, it means go back and re-read my posts, because I already addressed this.

Maybe the order is confusing you. I'll state this two different ways, according to what appears to be your logic, and get two different conclusions. Observe the difference:

--------------------------------------

There are two possibilities:

A) The German owns the fish
B) There is no fish

If A) were the answer, we would need to assume that a fish definitely exists. However, we cannot make that determination. Hence, because the solution MUST exist as defined by the problem, A) is incorrect. Therefore, the only option left is B).

Answer: There is no fish.

-----------------------------------------

Now, I'll use the SAME EXACT LOGIC, but in the reverse order:

------------------------------------------

There are two possibilities:

A) There is no fish
B) The German owns the fish

If A) were the answer, we would need to assume that no fish exists. However, we cannot make that determination. Hence, because the solution MUST exist as defined by the problem, A) is incorrect. Therefore, the only option left is B).

Answer: The German owns the fish

--------------------------------------------

As I've said before, the valid answers to this problem ARE:

a) The German owns the fish
b) If anyone of the 5 people does own the fish, it is the German
c) There is no solution

The answer depends on your particular interpretation of the problem.

a) is correct if you assume that the word "the" is a statement officially declaring the fish's existence.

b) is correct if you define "solution" as allowing a certain degree of ambiguity.

c) is correct if you assume the word "the" does NOT establish the fish's existence, and you define "solution" as being totally unambiguous.

DaveE

 

[alias25]

your posts make me smile :)

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Einstein sent this very puzzle to Schrodinger and said, "98% of people I know couldn't work this out" Since Schrodinger new that Einstein mixed in very intellectual circles he was keen to prove that he was amongst the 2% of people that could get this conundrum, so he worked for a while and got the answer, that the German owned the fish, he was about to retrieve his fountain pen from the draw when he realized that it was too easy...? Hold on he though if I can get this in 10 minutes what's to stop Niels Bohr or Max Plank from getting it this easilly? 98% mmmmm...

Damn it there must be more to it, after thinking on it for a while he came up with a brilliant solution, the solution wasn't that there was a solution, the solution was that the question was unanswerable! Since the fish was never definitively identified as existing but only infered Einstien was trying to force people into speculating about something intrinsicaly intangible in the structure of the question; it was obvious,there was no fish, the fish was a red herring! what Einstein was leading people to do was to solve the puzzle, but in doing so they made themselves the 98% who couldn't solve it, the sly old dog.

Pleased with his lateral answer he sent Einstein a letter saying, tough luck again old bean I have the answer, your trying to fool me into making assumptions about the answer without resorting to proof, there is nothing tangible that leads me to believe in the existence of a fish? You can't assert the German owns the fish unless the fish actually exists. Unless I can see a fish there is no fish it's suposition, until you can definitively show me the nature of a cod or a herring within the problem then it is no fish you seek but something unknowable. You can stop sending me these questions without answers these, riddles without proofs.

Einstein wrote back saying ahhhh! You have it: now this Copenhagen interpritation...

In all seriousness though I seriously doubt Einstein wrote this riddle, unless there was an ulterior motive, perhaps?

The answer is the answer, the German ate the fish.

 

[Molydood]

Einstein sent this very puzzle to Schrodinger and said, "98% of people I know couldn't work this out" Since Schrodinger new that Einstein mixed in very intellectual circles he was keen to prove that he was amongst the 2% of people that could get this conundrum, so he worked for a while and got the answer, that the German owned the fish, he was about to retrieve his fountain pen from the draw when he realized that it was too easy...? Hold on he though if I can get this in 10 minutes what's to stop Niels Bohr or Max Plank from getting it this easilly? 98% mmmmm...

Damn it there must be more to it, after thinking on it for a while he came up with a brilliant solution, the solution wasn't that there was a solution, the solution was that the question was unanswerable! Since the fish was never definitively identified as existing but only infered Einstien was trying to force people into speculating about something intrinsicaly intangible in the structure of the question; it was obvious,there was no fish, the fish was a red herring! what Einstein was leading people to do was to solve the puzzle, but in doing so they made themselves the 98% who couldn't solve it, the sly old dog.

Pleased with his lateral answer he sent Einstein a letter saying, tough luck again old bean I have the answer, your trying to fool me into making assumptions about the answer without resorting to proof, there is nothing tangible that leads me to believe in the existence of a fish? You can't assert the German owns the fish unless the fish actually exists. Unless I can see a fish there is no fish it's suposition, until you can definitively show me the nature of a cod or a herring within the problem then it is no fish you seek but something unknowable. You can stop sending me these questions without answers these, riddles without proofs.

Einstein wrote back saying ahhhh! You have it: now this Copenhagen interpritation...

In all seriousness though I seriously doubt Einstein wrote this riddle, unless there was an ulterior motive, perhaps?

The answer is the answer, the German ate the fish.

I also find it hard to believe that Einstein wrote it. Even if the answer is 'there is no solution' it's really not that clever is it? Or as Erdos would say, not exactly 'one from the book'...

 

[unggio]

kind of random but
the LSAT (law school admissions test) is filled with problems like this on the logical thinking section

i think i read it's an internet rumor somewhere that this is defintiely not a puzzle made by einstein to describe the top 2% of the population

 

[waga110]

easy

i'm in 5th grade and i solved the puzzle in like 25-40 minutes and i only have 130 IQ(I took an IQ test yesterday)
I think everyone(as in more than 2%)can solve it but they need more time than those 2 percent

 

[waga110]

i'm smart!130 IQ is very superior(as it says in some other website)

 

[GautamAishwarya]

i think the dane owns the fish

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

I hate those puzzles, they bore me and are just tedious. And while we're comparing IQ, 158. But then again IQ is bull**** :P.

 

[DaxInvader]

I found the answer in 17 minutes... AND a piece of paper...

 

[haki]

Einstein was German, soo the German should own the Fish. My initial guess but I think it is correct.

 

[DaxInvader]

i'm smart!130 IQ is very superior(as it says in some other website)

Ha hA! I have 133 IQ :P And my father has 142... Does your Iq go up as you grow? Your learn new things and your logic is improved...

 

[davee123]

Ha hA! I have 133 IQ :P And my father has 142... Does your Iq go up as you grow? Your learn new things and your logic is improved...

I think it ... changes... as you get older. Problem being that "intelligence" isn't nearly as linear of a value as your "IQ" would lead you to believe. Neural pathways will get less flexible as you get older, making it harder to "think outside the box". But on the other hand, your multitude of existing pathways make you better at solving problems that are very similar to ones you've already seen before. Younger people have fewer established pathways to go on, and will likely spend more time "figuring it out".

Also, IQ is inherently difficult to measure. Different tests yield different results and different "norms", and gauging children's IQ's is especially difficult thanks to them not having as "standardized" of a set of experiences on which to evaluate.

Generally, IQ is divided into several areas, as well, such as verbal, memory, logical, etc. I remember getting two evaluations when I was in gradeschool (math and verbal, I think), and elsewhere I heard about something like 4 different 'areas' of IQ. Not sure how many qualifications there are out there, and of course how easy it is to genuinely call them distinct qualifications!

DaveE

 

[DaxInvader]

Yeah.. I remeber having different % in different "areas". Thank you for your time.

Btw Congrats on you 100th post!

 

[intwo]

When I had finished the puzzle, I felt like I had just completed a marathon of some sort. After reading the so-called "correct" answer, I now feel like I've been running the marathon in the opposite direction.

Bahh it figures that Einstein would throw a curveball. And here I thought I was somewhat intelligent lol.

 

[Yura]

19 minutes ^^;
Wrote down the clues twice each to remember them (the second time around I slightly categorized them to make them easier to find), then drew a table of 5x5 and filled it out. >< I didnt even realize when I finished that one of the slots was still missing a pet till I read here and people were talking about a fish.

Waah, everyone here has a better IQ than me T-T
There was a IQ test running on tv a long while ago, they ask the questions and you choose your answer from multichoice, then go through the answer afterwards and you mark yourself (I think about a year maybe ago, i remember getting one wrong because i mixed up escalator and elevator) and i got...109 T_T I'm so sad..

 

[f(x)]

Damn it there must be more to it, after thinking on it for a while he came up with a brilliant solution, the solution wasn't that there was a solution, the solution was that the question was unanswerable! Since the fish was never definitively identified as existing but only infered Einstien was trying to force people into speculating about something intrinsicaly intangible in the structure of the question; it was obvious,there was no fish, the fish was a red herring!

Some1 elaborate on the text in bold

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Some1 elaborate on the text in bold
(intrinsicaly intangible / the fish was a red herring)

A red herring is neither red nor a herring and therefor is not a fish. And just as there is no fish in "red herring", so there is no intrinsically tangible fish in any of the 15 clues.

 

[f(x)]

A red herring is neither red nor a herring and therefor is not a fish. And just as there is no fish in "red herring", so there is no intrinsically tangible fish in any of the 15 clues.

oh thx. no idea abt fish

 

[Servo888]

How are you guys solving this problem? I don't see a clear solution without using guess and check... You can't solve a riddle by guess and checking though - hell you already have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the correct answer.

 

[unscientific]

Questions about IQ

Now now, some have said IQ is definite, fixed and can't be changed no matter what pig's or monkey's brain and tonics u eat. Some say IQ can be changed by doing puzzles, listeing to music ( Really? >_> ). In my opinion, I feel that IQ can't be changed. Now you must ask me one question, Why? The answer to this question is what u define IQ to be. I have come to believe that the speed of thought is oftenly mixed up with the level of intelligence or rather, IQ. What I think true IQ is; the ability to ask questions. The true, pure innate deep thinking. A simple question that everyone could solve, but it takes more than that to ask why is it like that? Is there a reason? If there is, why must it be? Are there other solutions? Peer intensely into problems, ask questions.

" The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. "
Albert Einstein


"It does not matter who I am, but what i do that defines me. "

 

[davee123]

How are you guys solving this problem? I don't see a clear solution without using guess and check... You can't solve a riddle by guess and checking though - hell you already have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the correct answer.

You don't need to guess, it's just a bit complicated. And, in my opinion, poorly worded. The utterly WORST wording is clue #4, which states "The green house is on the left of the white house". What the clue actually MEANS is that the green house is to the immediate left of the white house. When I read this initially, I assumed it meant "the green house is somewhere to the left of the white house, not necessarily right next to it"

Also, clue #9 says "the first house", but "first" does not REALLY mean leftmost, it could mean rightmost (although I think the problem turns out with the same answer of the German owning the fish if you work this out)

The rest is just bad wording which could have been phrased more accurately. A restatement:

* There are 5 houses each of which is a different color
* In each house lives a person with a different nationality
* These 5 owners drink only a certain type of beverage, smoke only a certain brand of cigar, and keep only a certain type of pet
* No two owners have the same type of pet, smoke the same brand of cigar nor drink the same type of drink.

Here's the question: Who owns the fish?

1. The Brit lives in a red house
2. The Swede keeps dogs as pets
3. The Dane drinks tea
4. The green house is immediately to the left of the white house
5. The green house owner drinks coffee
6. The person who smokes Pall Mall owns pet birds
7. The owner of the yellow house smokes Dunhill
8. The man living in the house right in the middle drinks milk
9. The Norwegian lives in the leftmost house
10. The man who smokes Blend lives next door to the one who keeps cats.
11. The man who keeps horses lives next door to the man who smokes Dunhill
12. The owner who smokes Blue Master drinks beer
13. The German smokes Prince
14. The Norwegian lives next to the blue house
15. The man who smokes Blend has a neighbor who drinks water

Some say IQ can be changed by doing puzzles, listeing to music ( Really? >_> ). In my opinion, I feel that IQ can't be changed.

Alright, this IQ discussion really should be moved to a different forum, but... I think it most definitely *can* be changed, and *does* change. If you break down intelligence into its more discrete parts, you get neurons firing in resonse to various stimuli, and directing action. If your neurons started dying (for whatever reason), or stopped firing correctly, your intelligence *would* change.

I think what you're driving at, however, is a definition of intelligence that isn't defined by what you already know how to do, but by your capacity to learn, and your flexibility in learning it; and it sounds like that's how you want to measure intelligence, which is fine. Obviously we don't have a good mechanism for measuring it (or even more "accepted" definitions of IQ for that matter), but I agree it's an important part of intelligence.

DaveE

 

[billiards]

I did it! ~10-15 mins and about 10 cm² of paper. I think maybe 50% of people couldn't do this, no way 98%, it aint really that hard.

 

[iProLiFiK]

Supporting and contradicting evidence of Einstein creating this and 2% of the world being able to solve it.

Supporting: Well majority of people that have solved this probably only reach about 2 percent of the population but this is the internet, and it isn't exactly advertised.

Contradicting: This quiz was incredibly easy compared to most logic problems. Most people have figured it out within 30 minutes which shows it isn't some incredibly mind-racking problem.

In this new generation people are much smarter and much dumber. Those who are smarter and have strived to learn more will probably not find this that hard. As for "Intelligence" its the process of elimination, not very Intelligent.

I myself solved this in 5 minutes with a pen to write on my hand. The first time I mentally guess the order of the houses in color I was wrong, and I quickly fixed the problem checking my order with the questions. Once you determine who the nationalities are, they practically give you the answer.

Seriously, congrats to all who solved it but don't think don't think your Einstein. Though you still could be :)

 

[chaoseverlasting]

I solved the whole thing in about 10-15 minutes on a notepad.

 

[PMCS]

That was kinda interesting, a little too simple though.

 

[BillJx]

Solving it as stated was trivial. Just a matter of making a table and narrowing down the options. I did find several websites that said the correct answer is that it's impossible to say who, if anyone, has a fish.
On some of those sites, the wording is, "Who has fish?" or "Who keeps fish?" (note for non-native English speakers, the plural of "fish" is "fish".)

I'd say there's a error in the wording of the question. To ask "Who owns the fish?" implies that there is one, because "the" is a definite article. If the question were "Who owns a fish?" or just "Who keeps fish?" then it's a typical riddle with a trick answer.

Maybe it's in the translation from German. I can believe that Einstein could have come up with this to remind people not to make assumptions.

 

[AngeloG]

I did it in about 45 seconds in my head; I just read the first few clues and skipped the middle and read a few of the last clues heh.

 

[rocks]

Aww.. now I feel like a retard. I got it mostly right and quit after I thought I had the fish guy right. I was wrong. For some reason I came up with
Yellow Norwegian Water Dunhill FISH. I had it between fish and cats for him, but somehow I got fish. Sucks to be me..

 

[bassplayer142]

Is this iq test supposed to be done without guessing and checking. Or does one discovery lead to another and eventually lead to the answer.

 

[phoenixthoth]

Isn't "who owns the fish" a loaded question? I mean, the german could have a python. Shouldn't it say, "if someone owns a fish, then who owns it?"

 

[K.J.Healey]

I remember doing this in the 6th grade. I had never seen a logic problem before, and had no idea how to go about solving it. What i ended up doing was making grids of each topic vs another. Like smokes vs pet, or pet vs house. Each was on a separate piece of paper and i stacked them in 3d. I found soem way to make connections by flipping back and forth, it was pretty fun. Took me about an hour to solve but only cause it took forever to setup.

 

[keynespaul]

i got a diff answer

Color green blue yellow red white
Nationality Norwegian german swede Brit dane
Drink coffee water Milk beer tea
Cigar blend prince dunhill blue master pall mall
Pets fish cats dogs horses birds


Answer is :The Norwegian has the fish

 

[davee123]

Answer is :The Norwegian has the fish

The problem is that this violates one of the poorly written clues:

"4. The green house is on the left of the white house"

Note that if you assume "is on the left somewhere" rather than "immediately next to", then there are apparently two possible answers!

DaveE

 

[keynespaul]

hi davee,
I would like to bring out a point here, when we consider clue#10 and #11,"10. The man who smokes Blend lives next door to the one who keeps cats.
11. The man who keeps horses lives next door to the man who smokes Dunhill

so I still say my answer is right, the green house is the very next house on the left,einstein might have specified it has " the green house is the left next to the white house" --I still say your answer is ALSO right. :)