Evaluating Physics Master's Programs

In summary: PhD?In summary, the most important components of a Physics Master's program are courses, research, and thesis.
  • #1
gwnorth
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If you were to rank potential components of a Physics Master's program, which do you think are the most important for preparing you for a PhD: courses, research, project report, thesis?

Also I've seen programs ranging in duration from as short as 9 months all the way up to 2 years. How much preparation do you think is ideal to lay a strong foundation before going into a PhD?
 
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  • #2
Your master thesis is the most important imo, and not only the final report, but the actual research and interactions with supervisors and researcher in the group you are doing your work in. It is important to get good letters of references.

9 month masters? That was short.. I thought 1 or 2 years was standard in Bologna. 2 years is better, you do research longer time and some courses you take you can use for your PhD diploma usually.
 
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  • #3
What country is this for? In the US, most students go directly from BS to PhD programs.
 
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  • #4
drmalawi said:
9 month masters? That was short..
Seems common in the UK. That's the length of a Physics Masters at Oxford, Cambridge, and ICL. I thought it was really short too. That's why I'm wondering.
Vanadium 50 said:
What country is this for? In the US, most students go directly from BS to PhD programs.
Any country other than US where it is common to complete a Master's before a PhD. Primarily UK/Europe.
 
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  • #5
drmalawi said:
Your master thesis is the most important imo, and not only the final report, but the actual research and interactions with supervisors and researcher in the group you are doing your work in. It is important to get good letters of references.
So if you were choosing between:

- 9 month taught master's that is 2/3 courses + 1/3 supervised research project + report (e.g. Cambridge MASt, Oxford MSc., ICL MSc.)

- 12 month version of the above (U of Toronto MSc., U Waterloo MSc.)

- 12 month research based master's with thesis + occasional seminars (e.g. Cambridge MPhil, ICL MRes)

- 2 year traditional master's with courses, research, & thesis (e.g. ETH Zurich MSc., UBC MSc., McGill MSc.)

What would you choose? Is less than 2 years enough?
 
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  • #6
gwnorth said:
What would you choose? Is less than 2 years enough?
Wouldn't "enough" depend on the subsequent PhD program the student applies to?
 
  • #7
@CrysPhys I suppose you have a point. Presumably each university's program provides sufficient preparation for admission to their own PhD program at the very least. I guess I was surprised by the great amount of variability in the structure of the programs that are offered. I thought they would be more standardized.

Is there such a thing as an ideal model?
 
  • #8
What kind of physics are you into? Experimental or theoretical? Astrophysics, cosmology, solid state, atomic physics, lasers, particle physics, nuclear physics?
 
  • #9
@drmalawi I should clarify that I'm not the potential student, but let's say the Holy Grail - Theoretical High Energy Particle Physics.
 
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  • #10
gwnorth said:
@drmalawi I should clarify that I'm not the potential student, but let's say the Holy Grail - Theoretical High Energy Particle Physics.
Same as me :) curricula matters alot. Two Courses on qft, a course on particle phenomenolgy, a course on lie algebra and symmetries is minimal. Also computational methods is very good if it is included. As long as these are included 1 or 2 years does not matter. Cosmology and advanced statistical physics aslo good if included.
 
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  • #11
@drmalawi - thank you. Very helpful. At least that gives a basis for comparing programs.

The student in question will have completed 2 years of research in addition to a literature review course and a full year project/thesis course. With this level of practical skills do you think it matters whether they choose a program with a 3 month research project + shorter report vs a 9 month research project + longer dissertation/thesis?
 
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  • #12
gwnorth said:
@CrysPhys I suppose you have a point. Presumably each university's program provides sufficient preparation for admission to their own PhD program at the very least. I guess I was surprised by the great amount of variability in the structure of the programs that are offered. I thought they would be more standardized.

Is there such a thing as an ideal model?
There is no ideal model. One underlying reason is because there is no standardized PhD program. The flip response is that the longest masters program would be the best: more coursework and more research experience provides better preparation, correct? But it's not that simple because you need to weigh the cost (time and $)/benefit trade-off.

And there are two facets of the masters program (assuming the student is certain of pursuing a PhD program subsequently). Will the longer programs improve the likelihood of the student being accepted into a specific PhD program in the first place? And assuming that the student is accepted into a specific PhD program, will the longer programs improve the likelihood of the student succeeding in that specific program? Well, that depends on the specific PhD program. E.g., in some instances, it might be more beneficial to complete the masters in one year and spend the saved time (the potential second year of a masters) jumping right into the PhD program (assuming the student gets accepted and assuming the PhD program provides suitable training). Too many unknown variables.

ETA: A similar question pops up now and then from US students (where the norm is to enter a PhD program after a 4-yr bachelors program): E.g., I want to pursue a PhD in physics. Is it worthwhile to spend an extra year as an undergrad to complete a double major in physics and math? There is no set answer.
 
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  • #13
gwnorth said:
The student in question will have completed 2 years of research in addition to a literature review course and a full year project/thesis course
In what? What was the level and scope of the research?

It could be a good idea to ask directly to student advisors at the universities which the student are considering.
 
  • #14
drmalawi said:
In what? What was the level and scope of the research?
A variety of different fields - so far he's had 2 internships. The first was a government sponsored 4 month internship in experimental condensed matter physics studying magnetic thin films where he worked with a professor and PhD student helping to set up and run the experiments as well as with the collection and analysis of the data. He's currently finishing up an 8 month placement at a university affiliated company that is commercializing research in thin polymer films conducted by an experimental soft matter physicist at his school. There he has been working in their research and development lab predominantly helping with product testing and data analysis.

These two placements have solidified for him that he much prefers theoretical/data analytic type work so for the 2 semester/8 month senior research project/thesis course he will be doing this coming year he has chosen to work with a professor who conducts theoretical research in AMO as well as Quantum Information. After that he will still have 1 more 8 month internship before he graduates with the field of study and the nature of the placement yet to be determined, but potentially with a professor who is a HEP theorist.

drmalawi said:
It could be a good idea to ask directly to student advisors at the universities which the student are considering.

That's good advice. It's much easier to evaluate domestic programs. It's more complex determining degree equivalencies for international programs.
 
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  • #15
@CrysPhys thank-you for your detailed response. You've given some good things to consider. It sounds like the best approach may be to skip straight to the end goal of the specific PhD program and then work backwards to find the master's program that would best set the student up for admission in terms of content but with also trying maximize time/cost considerations.
 
  • #16
gwnorth said:
Seems common in the UK. That's the length of a Physics Masters at Oxford, Cambridge, and ICL. I thought it was really short too. That's why I'm wondering.

Any country other than US where it is common to complete a Master's before a PhD. Primarily UK/Europe.
Well, AFAIK in the UK the BSc is 4 years studying. So it makes sense that the MSc takes a shorter time than in Europe, where usually the BSc is 3 years.
 
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  • #17
vanhees71 said:
Well, AFAIK in the UK the BSc is 4 years studying. So it makes sense that the MSc takes a shorter time than in Europe, where usually the BSc is 3 years.
If by UK you mean England, then English BSc's are also 3 years in length. They do however do an extra year of high school which I guess is roughly equivalent to the 1st year of university in 4 year degree systems like Scotland and North America. English degrees are more highly specialized though since they don't take general education electives so maybe that accounts somewhat for the shorter length of their Master's degrees. I don't know how that compares to the rest of Europe though.

4 year degrees in England are integrated BSc/MSc's where the 4th "year" is the same as the MSc. that international students complete.
 
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FAQ: Evaluating Physics Master's Programs

What should I look for in a physics master's program?

When evaluating physics master's programs, it is important to consider the curriculum, faculty, research opportunities, and resources available. Look for programs that offer a strong foundation in core physics concepts, a diverse and experienced faculty, opportunities for hands-on research experience, and access to state-of-the-art equipment and facilities.

How important is accreditation for a physics master's program?

Accreditation is an important factor to consider when evaluating a physics master's program. Accreditation ensures that the program meets certain quality standards and is recognized by other institutions and employers. It also ensures that the program is regularly evaluated and updated to meet industry standards.

What types of career opportunities are available with a physics master's degree?

A physics master's degree can open up a wide range of career opportunities in fields such as research, engineering, education, finance, and technology. Graduates can work in various industries including aerospace, energy, healthcare, and telecommunications.

How can I determine the reputation of a physics master's program?

There are several ways to determine the reputation of a physics master's program. You can look at the program's rankings, research output and impact, job placement rates, and alumni success. You can also reach out to current students and alumni to get their perspectives on the program.

Is it better to attend a highly ranked physics master's program or a program with a specific focus?

It ultimately depends on your career goals and interests. Attending a highly ranked program can provide a strong overall foundation in physics, while a program with a specific focus can offer specialized training in a particular area. Consider your long-term career goals and choose a program that aligns with them.

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