Exploring Opinions on Mitt Romney's Candidacy

[Office_Shredder]

Go to Cornell law(one place, or just go to the USC website), enter the citations listed, and then read the court cases. Sometimes it takes more than google to find facts, even today. :)

Edit: I tried a few to make sure and even just relying on google, if you enter the citation you get the court cases. But findlaw, cornell law, and USC sites are the best choices, IMO.

When I try to google them I just get the same schpiel posted on about 2000 other websites as my top hits.

Cases #3 and #4 that are cited are cases about the Secretary of State denying passports to citizens of the United States when Congress required anybody leaving the country to have a passport, and the ruling simply states that the government cannot restrict the right to travel to foreign countries with impunity. It has nothing to do with whether driving on a road explicitly is a right or a privilege

On the other hand we have court cases like
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8317960360812670712&hl=en&as_sdt=2,23&as_vis=1

a supreme court ruling about someone whose drivers license was suspended, so very directly related to the question of whether drivers licensing can legally restrict a right to drive on roads

The use of the public highways by motor vehicles, with its consequent dangers, renders the reasonableness and necessity of regulation apparent. The universal practice is to register ownership of automobiles and to license their drivers. Any appropriate means adopted by the states to insure competence and care on the part of its licensees and to protect others using the highway is consonant with due process.

This ruling came 10 years after Thompson v. Smith, which the quote from is missing a key component (coming immediately after the quoted section in your post) (parts bolded by me)

. It includes the right in so doing to use the ordinary and usual conveyances of the day; and under the existing modes of travel includes the right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or wagon thereon, or to operate an automobile thereon, for the usual and ordinary purposes of life and business. It is not a mere privilege, like the privilege of moving a house in the street, operating a business stand in the street, or transporting persons or property for hire along the street, which a city may permit or prohibit at will.

The exercise of such a common right the city may, under its police power, regulate in the interest of the public safety and welfare; but it may not arbitrarily or unreasonably prohibit or restrict it, nor may it permit one to exercise it and refuse to permit another of like qualifications, 378*378 under like conditions and circumstances, to exercise it. Taylor Smith, 140 Va. 217, 124 S.E. 259; Ex parte Dickey, 76 W.Va. 576, 85 S.E. 781, L.R.A. 1915-F, 840; Hadfield Lundin, 98 Wash. 657, 168 Pac. 516, L.R.A. 1918-B, 909, Ann. Cas. 1918-C, 942.

[7, 8]The regulation of the exercise of the right to drive a private automobile on the streets of the city may be accomplished in part by the city by granting, refusing, and revoking, under rules of general application, permits to drive an automobile on its streets; but such permits may not be arbitrarily refused or revoked, or permitted to be held by some and refused to other of like qualifications, under like circumstances and conditions.

In short, that drivers licenses are OK.

I was unable to find the Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago case, but was able to find this debunking of the citation
http://www.andrewtobias.com/bkoldcolumns/980723.html

 

[lisab]

As Romney continues to battle for the GOP nomination - the reluctance of the Right to embrace him should be a good sign and helping him with Moderates and Independents - shouldn't it?

It seems you're thinking as a Republican by assuming Independents only have two choices - Romney or Santorum. But Independents are, well, independent.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/independent-voters-on-the-run-from-romney-chart.php

 

[WhoWee]

It seems you're thinking as a Republican by assuming Independents only have two choices - Romney or Santorum. But Independents are, well, independent.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/independent-voters-on-the-run-from-romney-chart.php

What makes you think I'm a Republican?

 

[lisab]

What makes you think I'm a Republican?

Because I caught you thinking like a Republican!

 

[Evo]

Because I caught you thinking like a Republican!

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

It doesn't matter what it calls itself, does it?

I'm not a Republican, I just believe in everything hardcore Republicans believe in.

 

[BobG]

As Romney continues to battle for the GOP nomination - the reluctance of the Right to embrace him should be a good sign and helping him with Moderates and Independents - shouldn't it?

Depends on why they're reluctant to embrace him.

Not only are people influenced by a candidate's stand on the issues; they're influenced by their impression of his character/personality.

It's entirely possible that the impression of many conservatives is identical to that of liberals when it comes to Romney's personality/character.

While I find him acceptable politically (or at least his record is acceptable), I just have a hard time imagining myself voting for him. It's not his views I don't like - it's just him. It doesn't mean that there's no way I would vote for him - just that I sure would think about that long and hard before doing so.

Actually, I felt the same way about Bush 43 in 2000. I eventually swallowed hard and voted for Bush in spite of how I felt about him as a person (spoiled rich kid that wasted half his life partying). In retrospect, I can hardly believe I actually did that.

 

[lisab]

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

It doesn't matter what it calls itself, does it?

I'm not a Republican, I just believe in everything hardcore Republicans believe in.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-breeding-program-aimed-at-keeping-moderate-rep,27371/

 

[Evo]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-breeding-program-aimed-at-keeping-moderate-rep,27371/

<spew>

 

[WhoWee]

Actually, I'm an unrepresented angry independent conservative - business owner - struggling to stay afloat in a time of great political and economic uncertainty.

IMO - in 2008 I thought Senator Obama was too inexperienced and too Lib - he has proven himself to be the inept executive/full time campaigner and disaster I feared. On the other hand, I think mitt Romney has the correct mix of experience to deal with the problems President Obama has either created or kicked down the road.

 

[Evo]

On the other hand, I think mitt Romney has the correct mix of experience to deal with the problems President Obama has either created or kicked down the road.

And I feel the opposite.

 

[phoenix:\\]

Feelings should play a minor role.

he has proven himself to be the inept executive/full time campaigner and disaster I feared.

Your experience does not prove those factors, it only proves your position in life. There is a difference between something being "proven" based on evidence of x contributing to y's failure and how such a policy didn't work, and proven, as in your case of the unfortunate mishaps we all have in life. Blaming Obama and hoping Mitt Romney will change your life around, one whom you believe to be the same as Obama (I think it was you who said it), is really too much of a contradiction of belief and your proof of Obama's ineptitude. Grass is greener on the other side but both sides have the same color and same green tint of grass?

P.S. If you didn't say it, my apologies.

In the event that you did not say it. Your belief in Romney being able to help your business is a bit much of a stretch isn't it? Aside from Romney's many pitfalls in potential policies and his unwavering stance that the small business owner doesn't matter much, he really doesn't say much to help dying businesses, correct?

Here is a clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxvURgyJ26w

I don't think he'd be able to help your business, it'd be much of the same. You can only help your business.

 

[WhoWee]

And I feel the opposite.

Which part?

 

[Evo]

Which part?

That Romney is capable of doing any better than Obama. Obama did more positive things in his first few months than some Presidents did their entire term, IMO.

 

[WhoWee]

That Romney is capable of doing any better than Obama. Obama did more positive things in his first few months than some Presidents did their entire term, IMO.

I think Romney's experience as a deal maker in the business world, as Gov as well as with the Olympics will help him to work with a disfunctional Congress.

 

[Evo]

I think Romney's experience as a deal maker in the business world, as Gov as well as with the Olympics will help him to work with a disfunctional Congress.

The olympics, what's special about the olympics? I think the olympics are terrible, they pit nation against nation, it should be abolished. If you like sports and want competions among the best, fine, but don't make it about which country is superior. And I certainly don't think the population should be dealt with in the unfeeling, uncaring way that businesses deal with employees, as a number on a spreadsheet instead of as human beings.

 

[WhoWee]

The olympics, what's special about the olympics? I think the olympics are terrible, they pit nation against nation, it should be abolished. If you like sports and want competions among the best, fine, but don't make it about which country is superior. And I certainly don't think the population should be dealt with in the unfeeling, uncaring way that businesses deal with employees, as a number on a spreadsheet instead of as human beings.

The Olympics drew upon his professional experience and gave him a good working experience with Washington.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/us/politics/19romney.html?pagewanted=all
"In rescuing the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Games, which had been tarnished by scandal, Mr. Romney learned the ways of Washington and the hurly-burly of politics, mastered the news media, built a staff of loyalists and made fund-raising connections in Utah that have proven vital to his presidential campaign.

“The Olympics gave him a public persona he didn’t have before,” said Robert H. Garff, a businessman who served as the chairman of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee. “He grew into the person he is today.”"

 

[Evo]

The Olympics drew upon his professional experience and gave him a good working experience with Washington.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/us/politics/19romney.html?pagewanted=all
"In rescuing the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Games, which had been tarnished by scandal, Mr. Romney learned the ways of Washington and the hurly-burly of politics, mastered the news media, built a staff of loyalists and made fund-raising connections in Utah that have proven vital to his presidential campaign.

“The Olympics gave him a public persona he didn’t have before,” said Robert H. Garff, a businessman who served as the chairman of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee. “He grew into the person he is today.”"

Riiight. He used politics and money to earn recognition, lovely.

But the hardheaded and hard-nosed pragmatism that allowed Mr. Romney to juggle an unruly coalition of politicians, sponsors and volunteers as chief executive of the Games now haunts him on the campaign trail among some conservative Republicans. They complain that he has no core beliefs and shifts positions on a range of issues to placate various constituencies.

As a Republican presidential hopeful, for example, Mr. Romney portrays himself as a budget hawk who would take a hard line on federal spending and Congressional earmarks, the pet projects that lawmakers insert in spending bills. Back then, though, he lobbied heavily for earmarks, helping extract millions of federal dollars for projects in some cases only loosely tied to the Olympics and drawing the ire of Senator John McCain of Arizona, a longtime critic of earmarks and now a rival for the Republican presidential nomination.

While even Mr. Romney’s critics concede that the Games — which had faced serious potential

financial difficulties before his arrival — were a huge success, some say he made those early problems seem worse than they were to embellish his accomplishments. Others grouse about his showman’s instinct for the spotlight: the countless photo-ops, the television spots. Even the little Olympic pins sold to collectors carried his image, cloaked in the American flag.

 

[WhoWee]

Riiight. He used politics and money to earn recognition, lovely.

Careful - lest we compare President Obama's failed efforts (after a very expensive trip) to bring Olympics to Chicago.

 

[Evo]

Careful - lest we compare President Obama's failed efforts (after a very expensive trip) to bring Olympics to Chicago.

Obama's actions in the first few months after he became President are what I look at. I wasn't for Obama, gokul talked me into him. But he did make the right decisions right after becoming president. So I have no regrets.

 

[russ_watters]

It seems you're thinking as a Republican by assuming Independents only have two choices - Romney or Santorum. But Independents are, well, independent.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/independent-voters-on-the-run-from-romney-chart.php

I think you misunderstand what that graph is telling you and why. During primary season, candidates must pander to the core/base of their party to get votes. This will inevitably hurt them WRT to their potential opponent in November. But after the primary ends, they'll campaign to everyone.

What matters today isn't how Romney fares against Obama, it is how Romney fares against Obama compared to how Santorum fares against Obama. Or better yet, how Romney fares against Santorum WRT independents.

 

[lisab]

I think you misunderstand what that graph is telling you and why. During primary season, candidates must pander to the core/base of their party to get votes. This will inevitably hurt them WRT to their potential opponent in November. But after the primary ends, they'll campaign to everyone.

What matters today isn't how Romney fares against Obama, it is how Romney fares against Obama compared to how Santorum fares against Obama. Or better yet, how Romney fares against Santorum WRT independents.

I'm well aware of the shift-to-the-center candidates make as they transition from the primaries to the general election.

The graph was in response to WhoWee's assumption that since far-right voters don't seem to be warming up to Romney, he will get the Independent vote.

 

[WhoWee]

I'm well aware of the shift-to-the-center candidates make as they transition from the primaries to the general election.

The graph was in response to WhoWee's assumption that since far-right voters don't seem to be warming up to Romney, he will get the Independent vote.

Romney is ideally positioned to win (sitting with moderates/independents in the center to the right of President Obama) the Repub race without drifting too far right - but can still count on the votes from the conservative right, and the TEA Party. IMO - Romney is a better candidate in the general than in the primaries.

 

[turbo]

Mitt's got some problems in the General Election. The far-right doesn't like him, and the evangelicals will probably stay home in droves. People who are unemployed or under-employed are going to be really ticked off at him when the Dems start running ads of tearful former employees describing how Mitt dismantled their former employers' companies, stripped all the value out, and put the workers on the street, while raking in hundreds of millions.

I don't think a Mitt candidacy bodes well for the GOP on the whole, because it's not clear that he has the coat-tails to re-elect a GOP majority in the House or to hold onto Senate seats that will be in play this year. We'll see.

 

[WhoWee]

Mitt's got some problems in the General Election. The far-right doesn't like him, and the evangelicals will probably stay home in droves. People who are unemployed or under-employed are going to be really ticked off at him when the Dems start running ads of tearful former employees describing how Mitt dismantled their former employers' companies, stripped all the value out, and put the workers on the street, while raking in hundreds of millions.

I don't think a Mitt candidacy bodes well for the GOP on the whole, because it's not clear that he has the coat-tails to re-elect a GOP majority in the House or to hold onto Senate seats that will be in play this year. We'll see.

The far right really doesn't like President Obama - they will cast their vote against him. Why will the evangelicals stay home in droves? I think unemploey people also know their benefits will run out fairly soon and they are going to need to find a good job - in the private sector - not the President's best argument. Romney isn't the far right candidte that both left and right want - he's the moderate who can win the independent and small business vote - IMO of course.

 

[turbo]

The far right really doesn't like President Obama - they will cast their vote against him. Why will the evangelicals stay home in droves? I think unemploey people also know their benefits will run out fairly soon and they are going to need to find a good job - in the private sector - not the President's best argument. Romney isn't the far right candidte that both left and right want - he's the moderate who can win the independent and small business vote - IMO of course.

The far right is really not going to like Romney, either, once they start digging into RomneyCare and see that Mitt had implemented many of the things that they hate about the ACA, including individual mandates. I find it unlikely that evangelicals will swarm out to the polls to vote for a Mormon, though I could be wrong. At least Obama is a conventional Christian.

As for finding jobs in the private sector, as long as the economy keeps strengthening (no matter how slowly) Obama is going to look better and better to people who need jobs. It won't take too much repetition to make voters remember on whose watch those jobs were destroyed, and how arduous it was to repair the damage and try to right the economy.

BTW, the people of Michigan are not going to be too accepting of Romney after he called the bail-out of the auto industry a mistake. Letting the big auto-makers fail would have been disastrous, not only to the people on the factory floor and to the investors, but to all of the little manufacturers that make parts and supplies that the auto-companies need, and to all their employees and their suppliers. People on the right that claim that Obama "bailed out the UAW" are using a simplistic and wrong-headed argument to slam a president that they simply don't like, with little or no understanding of the economic consequences of doing nothing.

 

[WhoWee]

The far right is really not going to like Romney, either, once they start digging into RomneyCare and see that Mitt had implemented many of the things that they hate about the ACA, including individual mandates. I find it unlikely that evangelicals will swarm out to the polls to vote for a Mormon, though I could be wrong. At least Obama is a conventional Christian.

As for finding jobs in the private sector, as long as the economy keeps strengthening (no matter how slowly) Obama is going to look better and better to people who need jobs. It won't take too much repetition to make voters remember on whose watch those jobs were destroyed, and how arduous it was to repair the damage and try to right the economy.

BTW, the people of Michigan are not going to be too accepting of Romney after he called the bail-out of the auto industry a mistake. Letting the big auto-makers fail would have been disastrous, not only to the people on the factory floor and to the investors, but to all of the little manufacturers that make parts and supplies that the auto-companies need, and to all their employees and their suppliers. People on the right that claim that Obama "bailed out the UAW" are using a simplistic and wrong-headed argument to slam a president that they simply don't like, with little or no understanding of the economic consequences of doing nothing.

Celebrating a statistic such as the number of new unemployment claims dropping by 10,000 to 358,000 (I think-maybe 348,000) for the week is rather absurd when you consider how many people are currently on extended unemployment benefits. My question every time I see this stat is how many more people are left to file?

The right will vote against Obama (regardless of the candidate) and if there's any kind of religious perspective that might effect the race it's the President's recent debacle with the contraceptive mandate - also don't think for a moment the evangelicals will forget the Presidents comments about the US not being a Christian country - but claimed the US is one of the world's largest Muslim countries (or something like that-comment is widely known-I'll source if necessary).

 

[turbo]

I am not advocating Obama vs Romney. I am merely pointing out that Romney (if he is the nominee) will have some rather soft support from members of his own party. If the Republicans all hit the polls simply because they hate Obama, so be it, but that's not a prime motivation to fire up the base and get coat-tails for Romney, if experience is any guide.

 

[WhoWee]

I am not advocating Obama vs Romney. I am merely pointing out that Romney (if he is the nominee) will have some rather soft support from members of his own party. If the Republicans all hit the polls simply because they hate Obama, so be it, but that's not a prime motivation to fire up the base and get coat-tails for Romney, if experience is any guide.

Actually, I think a great many people from the base President Obama is counting on might just stay home if the price of gasoline is above $4.50 per gallon - given he said no to the Canadian pipeline. I also expect to hear some discussions of EPA regulations related to oil refineries and any reduced supplies - again IMO.

 

[mheslep]

Obama's actions in the first few months after he became President are what I look at. I wasn't for Obama, gokul talked me into him. But he did make the right decisions right after becoming president. So I have no regrets.

Obama's actions in the first few months after he became President are what I look at.

Such as? What stands out for you?

 

[Char. Limit]

Actually, I think a great many people from the base President Obama is counting on might just stay home if the price of gasoline is above $4.50 per gallon - given he said no to the Canadian pipeline. I also expect to hear some discussions of EPA regulations related to oil refineries and any reduced supplies - again IMO.

If the price of gasoline is above $4.50? What sort of voodoo magic would cause the gasoline prices to spike 50%?

 

[WhoWee]

If the price of gasoline is above $4.50? What sort of voodoo magic would cause the gasoline prices to spike 50%?

A reduction in refining capacity, increased demand (if the economy is actually improving), ME uncertainty, uncertainty over President Obama's energy policy in general (rejection of Canadian oil for instance)- again IMO.

btw - What was the price of gasoline when President Obama was sworn in - $1.85 or $1.89?

 

[Char. Limit]

A reduction in refining capacity, increased demand (if the economy is actually improving), ME uncertainty, uncertainty over President Obama's energy policy in general (rejection of Canadian oil for instance)- again IMO.

btw - What was the price of gasoline when President Obama was sworn in - $1.85 or $1.89?

I don't know about you, but where I am, it was about 3.00 per gallon. Which it's about now. So good for Obama!

 

[russ_watters]

I'm well aware of the shift-to-the-center candidates make as they transition from the primaries to the general election.

The graph was in response to WhoWee's assumption that since far-right voters don't seem to be warming up to Romney, he will get the Independent vote.

I don't see how that graph addresses that issue at all.

 

[Number Nine]

The right will vote against Obama (regardless of the candidate) and if there's any kind of religious perspective that might effect the race it's the President's recent debacle with the contraceptive mandate - also don't think for a moment the evangelicals will forget the Presidents comments about the US not being a Christian country - but claimed the US is one of the world's largest Muslim countries (or something like that-comment is widely known-I'll source if necessary).

The "contraceptive thing", I think, is more of an issue for religious leaders than religious voters. It seems, for instance, that the majority of catholics support the contraception mandate (e.g. this poll). Others have found similar results.

Please do source that quote, by the way.

EDIT: I found it. He said...

"if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world"

Which is objectively true, so I can't understand why anyone would take issue with it. "Muslim country" in this instance is clearly referring to "a country with Muslims in it". Anyone who attempts to present this as some sort of affront or persecution towards Christianity is distorting the statement so radically that it almost has to be a deliberate, strategic, malicious lie.

 

[SHISHKABOB]

I don't know about you, but where I am, it was about 3.00 per gallon. Which it's about now. So good for Obama!

where would that be? According to this website it was around what WhoWee is saying

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx