Exploring Opinions on Mitt Romney's Candidacy

[mheslep]

US military spending has not been cut, at all. By cut I mean the dictionary definition: to make it less than it was before. It is not less, it is more. Defense spending increased about $130B in real terms since 2008, and will continue to increase in 2012.

There are some http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/23/us-usa-economy-jobs-poll-idUSTRE61M1OL20100223 - that don't want to be, or about 19% of the US labor force.

The US government still has some 15,000 people in Iraq, with no announced plans to pull them out.

 

[Angry Citizen]

US military spending has not been cut, at all. By cut I mean the dictionary definition: to make it less than it was before. It is not less, it is more. Defense spending increased about $130B in real terms since 2008, and will continue to increase in 2012.

I hate it when people try to pass one by me. Go back to the chart, then plug in "FY 2014". Defense spending starts to decrease. It is this to which I alluded.

 

[mheslep]

I hate it when people try to pass one by me. Go back to the chart, then plug in "FY 2014". Defense spending starts to decrease. It is this to which I alluded.

Yes I see, so "military has been cut down to size" does not refer to past and present affairs, but really means "two years from now estimates are that military spending will shrink".

 

[Angry Citizen]

The defense budget also doesn't factor in the dozens of billions saved from our annual spending in Iraq. I suspect further cuts will happen after Obama's second term starts (and let's all be realistic - none of the Republican candidates really stand much of a chance).

 

[ThomasT]

I'm afraid that you are allowing a rather glaring misconception to sneak into your thesis and that is the apparent belief that a "man of the people" will continue to pursue altruism and not descend into avarice and self promotion.

I don't know how you're reading that into what I wrote.

Anyway, wrt what you wrote, imo, a man of and for the people wouldn't, by definition, descend into avarice. The only presidential candidate who, imo, fits the description of "a man of and for the people" during my lifetime (I'm 64 by the way) is Ralph Nader.

We are currently in the midst of just such an experiment. How's that working out for you?

If you're referring to Obama, then I'd have to say that, so far, imo, he's been a bit of a disappointment for lots of people. But I never expected Obama to be anything but a tool of the status quo.

 

[Angry Citizen]

The only presidential candidate who, imo, fits the description of "a man of and for the people" during my lifetime (I'm 64 by the way) is Ralph Nader.

Nader's not bad, but I'd personally like to see Bernie Sanders run. Now THERES you a man of the people.

 

[ThomasT]

Nader's not bad, but I'd personally like to see Bernie Sanders run. Now THERES you a man of the people.

They're both too old now, imo, for an office like the presidency of the US. Anyway, I don't know much about Sanders, but I've been following Nader's career for about 45 years. He was just on C-Span this weekend talking about his latest book and effort to unite and organize Americans to do something about what he (and presumably most Americans) consider to be abuses by corporations and politicians. It's essentially, I think, an effort to evolve a third (or second, if one lumps the Democratic and Republican parties together as the big business, corporate, status quo party) major political party that would actually represent the interests of the people.

 

[Rob D]

I don't know how you're reading that into what I wrote.

Anyway, wrt what you wrote, imo, a man of and for the people wouldn't, by definition, descend into avarice. The only presidential candidate who, imo, fits the description of "a man of and for the people" during my lifetime (I'm 64 by the way) is Ralph Nader.

If you're referring to Obama, then I'd have to say that, so far, imo, he's been a bit of a disappointment for lots of people. But I never expected Obama to be anything but a tool of the status quo.

Thomas,

I'm also 64. And you are quite right imo ("h" omitted since my wife regularly points out that I've never had a humble opinion) Nader and possibly Ron Paul are the only truly proletariat office seekers in our very interesting lifetimes.

And yes, the "experiment" was Obama, who, when injected into the Presidency (what could we have been thinking?), was like asking a cat to do trig. Regardless of beauty, training or grace, the cat is only good at one thing, being a cat. [Note to Oversensitive Liberals: - this is not a racial slur, it is in enterspecies slur.]

RD

 

[eshore09]

Thomas,

And yes, the "experiment" was Obama, who, when injected into the Presidency (what could we have been thinking?), was like asking a cat to do trig. Regardless of beauty, training or grace, the cat is only good at one thing, being a cat. [Note to Oversensitive Liberals: - this is not a racial slur, it is in enterspecies slur.]

RD

So, if the "experiment" of injecting Obama into the presidency is like asking a cat to do trig, I guess that injecting any of the 4 buffoons still semi-pertinent in the Republican Circus would be akin to asking a cockroach to do brain surgery. Granted, Obama has made some mistakes (like capitulating to loons in Congress) and dissappointed a lot of people (yours truly for one), the economy is heading in the right direction. I guess this cat can do SOME trig.

 

[jduster]

I may actually end up supporting Mitt Romney.

I generally don't approve of the president's performance, and the other Republican candidates are either too extreme in their views, too ignorant on the issues, unelectable or have too many personal flaws.

 

[WhoWee]

I may actually end up supporting Mitt Romney.

I generally don't approve of the president's performance, and the other Republican candidates are either too extreme in their views, too ignorant on the issues, unelectable or have too many personal flaws.

Apparently the voters in Florida agree with you?
http://www.foxnews.com/

"AP URGENT: Romney Wins Florida
With polls closed in Florida, Fox News projects Mitt Romney takes all 50 of Florida's Republican delegates while Newt Gingrich is projected to finish a distant second. "

 

[phoenix:\\]

And yes, the "experiment" was Obama, who, when injected into the Presidency (what could we have been thinking?), was like asking a cat to do trig. Regardless of beauty, training or grace, the cat is only good at one thing, being a cat. [Note to Oversensitive Liberals: - this is not a racial slur, it is in enterspecies slur.]

A bit too much information. Graceful and beautiful? Captivated by looks than policies and know-how had your mind in a tizzy. j/k :)

Why would it be a racial slur though? Were you thinking of something naughty whilst writing that reply? Cat knows nothing about trig, but even if you tried to teach it, it still wouldn't learn trig because it doesn't have the necessary brain power to manipulate numbers, etc... on such a level. I think it was a bad analogy on your part as equating Obama to something that could never learn even if he tried. It is seen as unfair to judge him so harshly. Much better to substitute 'cat' for 'baby', because babies grow and as they grow they become more wise, or substitute 'baby' for 'kid'. What was the reason behind equating Obama to a separate species, is he not human to you?

But you see how such comments can be taken to be seen as 'racist' (strict adherence to the definition of the word)? "Obama doesn't and will never be a competent president due to a lack of higher thought processes as he is of a different species." Oversensitive liberals? Now I take offense!

@WhoWee's link: Mitt Romney winning Florida was well known before that became the centerpiece of attention.

 

[WhoWee]

A bit too much information. Graceful and beautiful? Captivated by looks than policies and know-how had your mind in a tizzy. j/k :)

Why would it be a racial slur though? Were you thinking of something naughty whilst writing that reply? Cat knows nothing about trig, but even if you tried to teach it, it still wouldn't learn trig because it doesn't have the necessary brain power to manipulate numbers, etc... on such a level. I think it was a bad analogy on your part as equating Obama to something that could never learn even if he tried. It is seen as unfair to judge him so harshly. Much better to substitute 'cat' for 'baby', because babies grow and as they grow they become more wise, or substitute 'baby' for 'kid'. What was the reason behind equating Obama to a separate species, is he not human to you?

But you see how such comments can be taken to be seen as 'racist' (strict adherence to the definition of the word)? "Obama doesn't and will never be a competent president due to a lack of higher thought processes as he is of a different species." Oversensitive liberals? Now I take offense!

@WhoWee's link: Mitt Romney winning Florida was well known before that became the centerpiece of attention.

I posted a few minutes after the polls closed. I have no idea whatsoever why the Obama/cat discussion is included in this thread though?

 

[phoenix:\\]

Mitt Romney poured millions into Florida whilst Gringrich only started focusing on Florida as soon after he won S.C.. Mitt Romney does well in states he has had a long standing run in like Florida, like Iowa, and like New Hampshire. In states he hasn't had a 4 year run in, or states that aren't privy to him as much as the ones he focuses on like S.C., he loses or does not do so well in.

I don't know what the hustle and bustle is about but that wasn't even a big lead considering the sheer amount of money and ads he placed into that state over Gingrich. Gringrich with far fewer time to instill a huge divide still had a good enough number to come close to Romney. And the beginning statement, "Mitt Romney CRUSHED...", seriously? He won by 14% even with all of the time spent in Florida which is above 50% of the time Gingrich spent in Florida.

 

[WhoWee]

Mitt Romney poured millions into Florida whilst Gringrich only started focusing on Florida as soon after he won S.C.. Mitt Romney does well in states he has had a long standing run in like Florida, like Iowa, and like New Hampshire. In states he hasn't had a 4 year run in, or states that aren't privy to him as much as the ones he focuses on like S.C., he loses or does not do so well in.

I don't know what the hustle and bustle is about but that wasn't even a big lead considering the sheer amount of money and ads he placed into that state over Gingrich. Gringrich with far fewer time to instill a huge divide still had a good enough number to come close to Romney. And the beginning statement, "Mitt Romney CRUSHED...", seriously? He won by 14% even with all of the time spent in Florida which is above 50% of the time Gingrich spent in Florida.

I re-read the article - you seem to have retyped the word "crushed" to appear differently? my bold(s). I believe they used the word "crushed" because (as they described) it was the most decisive result to date.

"Mitt Romney crushed Newt Gingrich in the Florida Republican presidential primary Tuesday night, surging from a second-place finish in South Carolina to sweep the winner-take-all contest and reassert his frontrunner status.

The victory, in the biggest GOP contest to date, is likely to give the former Massachusetts governor a burst of momentum as he, Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul head west to battle in what has become an increasingly negative race. "

 

[phoenix:\\]

"Decisive"? South Carolina was decisive, New Hampshire was decisive, Iowa was not decisive. "Crushed" within the context doesn't correlate with it as a decisive victory, it means that the victory (in terms of being crushed) was a huge defeat. That quotation you have proves as much:

second-place finish in South Carolina to sweep the winner-take-all contest and reassert his frontrunner status.

Crushed in terms of being decisive? No, I am not buying that was the meaning behind the remarks in the article that failed to even note Mitt having a well-known presence in Florida before Newt even began eyeing the state as a central focus.

"Winner-take-all" and "reassertion of front-runner status"... Oh please! Fox news is apart of the establishment so I shouldn't be surprised.

Reason I put 'crushed' in capitals was to emphasize that the article said it. A bit excessive, yes, but I felt it necessary at the time.

 

[WhoWee]

"Decisive"? South Carolina was decisive, New Hampshire was decisive, Iowa was not decisive. "Crushed" within the context doesn't correlate with it as a decisive victory, it means that the victory (in terms of being crushed) was a huge defeat. That quotation you have proves as much:



Crushed in terms of being decisive? No, I am not buying that was the meaning behind the remarks in the article that failed to even note Mitt having a well-known presence in Florida before Newt even began eyeing the state as a central focus.

"Winner-take-all" and "reassertion of front-runner status"... Oh please! Fox news is apart of the establishment so I shouldn't be surprised.

Reason I put 'crushed' in capitals was to emphasize that the article said it. A bit excessive, yes, but I felt it necessary at the time.

You are entitled to you opinion. IMO - the results speak for themselves - this was a decisive win for Romney with 771,842 votes to Newt's 531,294 - a 240,548 vote difference.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/primaries/states/florida

 

[skeptic2]

And yes, the "experiment" was Obama, who, when injected into the Presidency (what could we have been thinking?), was like asking a cat to do trig. Regardless of beauty, training or grace, the cat is only good at one thing, being a cat. [Note to Oversensitive Liberals: - this is not a racial slur, it is in enterspecies slur.]

RD

Inter-species slur indeed! While I don't know of any cats who can do trig, horses apparently can extract cube roots in their heads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_(horse)
http://www.answers.com/topic/elberfeld-horses

In spite of the above example, cats seem to be categorically incapable of doing trig. By categorical I mean that that inability seems to be associated with their being cats, not with who their parents were, whether or not they have birth certificates, their level of education, their political party or even if they are liberal or conservative.

By analogy you seem to be suggesting that Obama is categorically incapable of being president without ever stating what that category is.

Incidentally, I wonder how many presidents are or have been capable of doing trig. I can think of only two who seem likely candidates - George Washington who was a surveyor and Jimmy Carter who was an engineer.

 

[Char. Limit]

If Mitt Romney wins the primary, which he stands a good chance of doing, who do you think would be a good VP for him? My own personal choice if I were in his shoes would be Marco Rubio. He's skilled, he doesn't have many black marks, and he helps deliver the Hispanic vote.

 

[turbo]

"I'm in this race because I care about Americans. I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it," the Republican front-runner said Wednesday on CNN, following his victory in the Florida primary.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/01/mitt-romney-very-poor_n_1246557.html

Mitt is not concerned about the very poor. How about homeless veterans sheltering under bridges and overpasses? The "safety net" is not all that effective, especially since people who have lost their jobs and homes due to avarice and greed at the top have to wait and work through the system to try to get warm shelter and keep their kids fed. This interview will come back to haunt him in the general election.

 

[ThomasT]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/01/mitt-romney-very-poor_n_1246557.html

Mitt is not concerned about the very poor. How about homeless veterans sheltering under bridges and overpasses? The "safety net" is not all that effective, especially since people who have lost their jobs and homes due to avarice and greed at the top have to wait and work through the system to try to get warm shelter and keep their kids fed. This interview will come back to haunt him in the general election.

Looking at his 59 points it seems pretty clear to me that Mitt is basically concerned about continuing with business as usual along with reducing the social safety net for poor Americans and reducing necessary regulation of businesses and the financial sector.

I do think the safety net for the poor is currently fairly effective. That is, qualified applicants are given food, shelter, and even money sometimes, aren't they? I don't know of anywhere in the US where there's actual abject poverty. As for homeless veterens, I think that's their choice -- maybe due to abuse of alcohol and drugs, or mental illness of some sort. Afaik, the VA has programs to help them if they want it.

Anyway, when Romney says that if the safety net for the poor is broken then he'll fix it, I think that he's just lying.

 

[WhoWee]

If Mitt Romney wins the primary, which he stands a good chance of doing, who do you think would be a good VP for him? My own personal choice if I were in his shoes would be Marco Rubio. He's skilled, he doesn't have many black marks, and he helps deliver the Hispanic vote.

Personally, I don't like the idea of tapping anyone in their first term - whether it's Senator Obama, or Senator Rubio, or a first term Governor from NJ or SC. The President of the US is a job that should not be fast-traced (IMO).

 

[WhoWee]

Looking at his 59 points it seems pretty clear to me that Mitt is basically concerned about continuing with business as usual along with reducing the social safety net for poor Americans and reducing necessary regulation of businesses and the financial sector.

I do think the safety net for the poor is currently fairly effective. That is, qualified applicants are given food, shelter, and even money sometimes, aren't they? I don't know of anywhere in the US where there's actual abject poverty. As for homeless veterens, I think that's their choice -- maybe due to abuse of alcohol and drugs, or mental illness of some sort. Afaik, the VA has programs to help them if they want it.

Anyway, when Romney says that if the safety net for the poor is broken then he'll fix it, I think that he's just lying.

Is it possible that fixing the safety net might entail making it more streamlined and cost effective = more benefits spent on beneficiaries and less on administrative overhead?

 

[ThomasT]

Is it possible that fixing the safety net might entail making it more streamlined and cost effective = more benefits spent on beneficiaries and less on administrative overhead?

Ok, that's a good point.
EDIT: In which case he wouldn't be lying.

 

[Jasongreat]

Support requested.

For my statement that Mitt donated his inheritence to a university. Taken from his Wiki page:

When his father died in 1995, Mitt donated his inheritance to BYU's George W. Romney Institute of Public Management and joined the board and was vice-chair of the Points of Light Foundation, which had incorporated his father's National Volunteer Center).[40][102]

Here is the part of the interview referenced[40] on Wiki:

LAMB: By the way, why did your father not give you any of his inheritance?

ROMNEY: Well, he didn’t have as much as I think some people anticipated. And I did get a check from my dad when he passed away. I shouldn’t say a check, but I did inherit some funds from my dad.

But I turned and gave that away to charity. In this case I gave it to a school which Brigham Young University established in his honor, the George W. Romney School of Public Management.

And as an institute of public management, it helps young people learn about government and about serving in public service. And that’s where his inheritance ended up.

LAMB: Did he have a philosophy that he didn’t want to pass on a lot of money to his kids?

ROMNEY: Well, I don’t think he had as much as some people might have imagined. And he spent his money on things he cared about. He was a real champion of volunteerism.

So he funded volunteer efforts and worked to support the things he cared about. My kids got some money from my mom and dad. They are happy that they were able to receive some funds. That helped them in their education and getting started in life. But in my case, I figured we had enough of our own.

LAMB: At some point I noticed you were on the Points of Light Foundation board, but you go back to either your father starting the volunteer organization that merged into Points of Light?

ROMNEY: Yes.

LAMB: Explain that.

ROMNEY: Well, my dad began a group, I think it was first called Volunteer. And the idea was to help people connect with volunteer opportunities. His idea was to set up offices around the country, some affiliated with the United Way, others independent, where people would know what volunteer opportunities were available in the community.

And then people could come in and say, look, I have got so many hours and afternoons, what do you have for me? And they would try and put people together with volunteer opportunities. And he campaigned for that hard.

About the same time, President George H.W. Bush came out with the idea of the points of light and the Points of Light Foundation. It had a very similar concept. And the thought was, let’s put these two together where George Romney’s Volunteer organization could combine with the Points of Light Foundation and promote volunteerism, bring together -- one of the things was to bring together all the presidents, all the living presidents to promote volunteerism, something my dad championed and worked for.

He passed away just before that conference. And I was invited to step on the board and work with the Points of Light Foundation. It was a source of great honor for me to stand where my dad had stood, and to see this convocation of great leaders and people from around the country talk about volunteerism.

And the Points of Light Foundation continues to help the nation find opportunities for people to serve one another.

LAMB: You finished first in your class at Brigham Young University in Utah.

ROMNEY: Almost. I did very well at Brigham Young and I was the valedictorian in terms of speaking at the graduation. And I think I had the highest grade point in my college of humanities.

But I don’t know who was number one in the entire class. So I will correct the record on that. I graduated with highest honors and I did pretty well at Brigham Young. I didn’t do as well at Stanford, by the way.

 

[Jasongreat]

"Decisive"? South Carolina was decisive, New Hampshire was decisive, Iowa was not decisive. "Crushed" within the context doesn't correlate with it as a decisive victory, it means that the victory (in terms of being crushed) was a huge defeat. That quotation you have proves as much:



Crushed in terms of being decisive? No, I am not buying that was the meaning behind the remarks in the article that failed to even note Mitt having a well-known presence in Florida before Newt even began eyeing the state as a central focus.

"Winner-take-all" and "reassertion of front-runner status"... Oh please! Fox news is apart of the establishment so I shouldn't be surprised.

Reason I put 'crushed' in capitals was to emphasize that the article said it. A bit excessive, yes, but I felt it necessary at the time.

Imo, crushed could also mean that Romney won all delegates in Florida, Gingrich got zero. Although it sounds as if Gingrich is now going to sue Florida and try to get the delegates split based on percentage of the vote.

What kills me is all the whining about the money and time mitt spent on Florida, isn't that what the race is about, doing all one can to get ones message out? To me the superior organizational skills of Romney's campaign speaks volumes about the candidate, heck most his competition couldn't even get on all the states primary ballots, even when they live in the state they failed to qualify in.

 

[Jasongreat]

If Mitt Romney wins the primary, which he stands a good chance of doing, who do you think would be a good VP for him? My own personal choice if I were in his shoes would be Marco Rubio. He's skilled, he doesn't have many black marks, and he helps deliver the Hispanic vote.

Thats a good point about the hispanic vote, Rubio already helped Mitt in that regards in Florida.

I would like to see a Romney/Paul ticket, Romney brings a moderately conservative buisiness perspective to the streamlining of the beauracratic departments in Washington, Paul brings the constituional conservative tenets of our founders. About the only argument I hear against paul is he is unelectable and a quack, the VP spot seems meant for those types, just look at Biden. :)

 

[daveb]

Personally, I don't like the idea of tapping anyone in their first term - whether it's Senator Obama, or Senator Rubio, or a first term Governor from NJ or SC. The President of the US is a job that should not be fast-traced (IMO).

Despite the fact that I voted for Obama (I didn't like the alternative), I would agree with you.

 

[phoenix:\\]

Imo, crushed could also mean that Romney won all delegates in Florida, Gingrich got zero. Although it sounds as if Gingrich is now going to sue Florida and try to get the delegates split based on percentage of the vote

On a "winner-take-all" basis. Florida broke the rules but were still allowed to keep the winner take all? I don't know about you but I am calling foul on it. Gingrich is in the right to sue the state.

That regard is no actual crushing.

Is it possible that fixing the safety net might entail making it more streamlined and cost effective = more benefits spent on beneficiaries and less on administrative overhead?

Cutting medicaid and its related programs?

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12/19/391765/mitt-romneys-dream-world-cutting-billions-out-of-medicaid-will-not-hurt-the-poor/?mobile=nc

Also cutting a large sum of the food stamp program which would hurt the people currently trying to live and feed hungry children will, in your words, "streamline it and help procure more benefits"?

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3658

Point is, Romney doesn't care about the poor. He continually shows how out of touch he is with most Americans.

 

[WhoWee]

On a "winner-take-all" basis. Florida broke the rules but were still allowed to keep the winner take all? I don't know about you but I am calling foul on it. Gingrich is in the right to sue the state.

That regard is no actual crushing.



Cutting medicaid and its related programs?

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12/19/391765/mitt-romneys-dream-world-cutting-billions-out-of-medicaid-will-not-hurt-the-poor/?mobile=nc

Also cutting a large sum of the food stamp program which would hurt the people currently trying to live and feed hungry children will, in your words, "streamline it and help procure more benefits"?

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3658

Point is, Romney doesn't care about the poor. He continually shows how out of touch he is with most Americans.

I don't think anyone can support one way or the other whether Romney cares about the poor - it's your opinion and should be labeled accordingly.

 

[phoenix:\\]

Maybe it's my opinion about Mitt Romney's mindset. However, I can say that his proposed policies do not support the poor.

 

[WhoWee]

Maybe it's my opinion about Mitt Romney's mindset. However, I can say that his proposed policies do not support the poor.

You can say whatever you want if you label it opinion - if presented as a fact it needs support.

 

[ThomasT]

Cutting medicaid and its related programs?

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12/19/391765/mitt-romneys-dream-world-cutting-billions-out-of-medicaid-will-not-hurt-the-poor/?mobile=nc

Also cutting a large sum of the food stamp program which would hurt the people currently trying to live and feed hungry children will, in your words, "streamline it and help procure more benefits"?

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3658

Point is, Romney doesn't care about the poor. He continually shows how out of touch he is with most Americans.

If the numbers in those links are accurate, then what Romney's proposing seems like it would really hurt the general economy and millions of Americans. Not just the direct recipients of the aid would be affected, but the businesses and individuals who depend on that aid being spent in the general economy.

At least that's how I'm thinking about it now. How can he expect to take hundreds of billions out of the real economy and not significantly increase unemployment and underemployment?

It seems like Romney's out of touch with reality.

 

[phinds]

How can he expect to take hundreds of billions out of the real economy and not significantly increase unemployment and underemployment?
.

He's a Republican. They seem to think like that.

 

[CAC1001]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/01/mitt-romney-very-poor_n_1246557.html

Mitt is not concerned about the very poor. How about homeless veterans sheltering under bridges and overpasses? The "safety net" is not all that effective, especially since people who have lost their jobs and homes due to avarice and greed at the top have to wait and work through the system to try to get warm shelter and keep their kids fed. This interview will come back to haunt him in the general election.

I think he's concerned about the poor, but I think what he meant is that he's more concerned right now about for example the middle-class family that cannot afford health insurance versus the poor family that is on Medicaid.