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Loren Booda
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What is beyond consciousness?
Loren Booda said:Can one realize the difference between that which is sensed or observed, that which is known or theorized, and that which is neither?
What is beyond consciousness?
this is not necessarily true!azneternity said:Everything we have learned is through immitating others. We are just a compilation of our peers. How can we perceive which is beyond what we can observe. What we observe is all we know.
Existence.Loren Booda said:What is beyond consciousness?
Loren Booda said:Can one realize the difference between that which is sensed or observed, that which is known or theorized, and that which is neither?
Yes, and both are meaningless apart from identity. Thus an axiom is suggested, existence exists and its identity precedes the content of consciousness.Dmstifik8ion said:Existence precedes consciousness sequentially, but apart from consciousness is meaningless.
Loren Booda said:What is beyond consciousness?
By definition, you can not. To conjecture something that is not sensed, observed or known is to theorise it, even if it is to theorise only it's existence, non-existence or possible existence. But nonetheless, the set that is neither {sensed or observed} nor {known or theorized} is valid: it is the set of things we have no knowledge of. If we know/theorise/sense/observe everything then it is empty, but it's still there. It is a set of an unknown number of unknown things.Loren Booda said:Johnny,
I was comparing the sets of that which is {sensed or observed} vs that which is {known or theorized} vs that which is {neither}. Can any of you give an example of that which is neither {sensed or observed} nor {known or theorized}?
Loren Booda said:Johnny,
I was comparing the sets of that which is {sensed or observed} vs that which is {known or theorized} vs that which is {neither}. Can any of you give an example of that which is neither {sensed or observed} nor {known or theorized}?
"set of an unknown number of unknown things"
quantumcarl said:Furthermore, an apple will always describe an orange as an apple.
Jonny_trigonometry said:za?![]()
Jonny_trigonometry said:mango who?
does a stick carry (knowledge of) its history (and potential)? Conscious or not.
Loren Booda said:What is beyond consciousness?
Loren Booda said:What is beyond consciousness?
Sure, you talk about "constraint", which is an important concept of general systems theory. A constraint is a relation between two sets. It is obtained when the "variety" that exists under one condition is less than the variety under another. And, constraints are important because "when a constraint exists advantage can usually be taken of it" (Ross Ashby, 1956, An Introduction to Cybernetics"). Thus, as you state, every law of nature is a constraint, and every object of Reality is a constraint. Prediction is possible only because constraints exist. All machines, all learning are constraints. As applies to biology, organisms can adapt just so far so the real world is constrained, and no further. The opposite of constraint is total chaos.quantumcarl said:Could someone please tell me what I'm talking about?
Loren Booda said:Can one realize the difference between that which is sensed or observed, that which is known or theorized, and that which is neither?
Loren Booda said:What is beyond consciousness?
Existence.Loren Booda said:What is beyond consciousness?
Originally Posted by Loren Booda
What is beyond consciousness?
Why would you think a dog has consciousness? How would you tell?meteor said:The way i see it, Consciousness is a subset of a more general whole called "Mind". Similarly, Intelligence is a subset of the set Consciousness.
Thus, a human being would have Mind, Consciousness and Intelligence. A dog would have Mind and Consciousness, but not Intelligence. An ant would have Mind but would lack the other two qualities.
I can see it your way. For the purposes of this discussion I will agree with these relationships.meteor said:The way i see it, Consciousness is a subset of a more general whole called "Mind". Similarly, Intelligence is a subset of the set Consciousness.
I am not willing to agree with this. What you say here is that the Mind is a constituent part or a possession or a component of a human. I am of the opinion that the human being is subordinate to a Mind, which I claim is outside and separate from this physical world and its bodies. Now, if by "having a Mind" is taken to mean "behaves as if it had a Mind", then I would agree that you could say that a human being appears to have a Mind. But so would a remotely controlled robot being operated by a human. I think that we would agree that the robot, in spite of its behavior, would have neither a Mind nor a consciousness.meteor said:Thus, a human being would have Mind, Consciousness and Intelligence.
Good questions. On the other hand, Why would you think a human has consciousness? How would you tell?moving finger said:Why would you think a dog has consciousness? How would you tell?
While I agree that consciousness seems to have that ability, I don't think this is a sufficient condition for consciousness. With respect, I think that all of the functions you describe here can be programmed into a computer and yet not imbue the computer or the program with consciousness.moving finger said:Consciousness seems to be the ability of an agent to form a temporally extended and detailed self-representation, and to relate this self-representation to information gathered from (exchanged with) the “external” world.