Exploring the Sun: Amateur Solar Imaging Techniques

[davenn]

awesome
thanks for posting

Unfortunately, no real differences between the images...

I beg to differ, the red RG645 allows much easier determination of details
the spots blend into the blue one a lot more

keep 'em coming :)Dave

 

[davenn]

the Sun Today 26/09/2017

The quality of seeing is still pretty poor the limb of the sun full of ripples

3 spot groups are visible ... from left to right ... AR2681; 2682; 2683

cheers
Dave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

See why this is useful? I just saw the new group from real photos (even in the first image in #35 above).
Also, AR2682 (old 2673) seems pretty quiet now! ...

 

[davenn]

the sun today 28 Sept 2017

The quality of seeing is still pretty poor only a couple of glimpses of the sun today during a break in the clouds
The same 3 spot groups are still visible ... from left to right ... AR2681; 2682; 2683

Dave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

2683 has grown significantly (by 110). We can clearly see it in the picture (+cf. previous one). Sizes right now: 2681: 80, 2682: 180, 2683: 270.
[Dave's last photo (today) is clear enough to make out the relative sizes.]

 

[davenn]

the sun today 29 Sept 2017

The quality of seeing today is the best for around a week with a nice sharp limb
The same 3 spot groups are still visible ... from left to right ... AR2681; 2682; 2683

AR2682 ( the middle group) is sporting a few small spots around the main spot

cheers
Dave

 

[davenn]

The sun today 01 Oct 2017

The quality of seeing today is reasonable
The same 3 spot groups are still visible ... from left to right ... AR2681; 2682; 2683
AR2681 is approaching the western limb and will be gone in a couple of days
AR2683 has 2 distinct cores

full disc

close-up of the active regions

cheers
Dave

 

[davenn]

After a number of days of either total cloud if a thinner high cloud, I finally managed to image the sun yesterday

The Sun 05 Oct 2017

cheers
Dave

 

[sophiecentaur]

I have some excess spectral filters lying around

Send them over here if you can't use 'em.
I have only managed pictures through the Baader safety filter, so far and I am horrified at the cost of anything else. It seems that you need an etalon to get those lovely impressive shots that we see on line. What is your experience of solar photography and how many £££ is needed to get a picture really worth looking at?
The attached is good as a 'record' but not much atmosphere about it!

 

[NFuller]

how many £££ is needed to get a picture really worth looking at

Depends what your definition of "a picture worth looking at" is. If you want one of those images showing powerful solar flares and detailed granulation on the surface, then I would ballpark the cost at £1500. This includes proper filters, a telescope which accepts those filters, and a monochrome camera with very small pixels.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Depends what your definition of "a picture worth looking at" is.

As a subject for a photo, the full Sun is pretty short on atmosphere and variation. Over the last couple of years I have seen sunspots and managed to enhance them sometimes with one of my Sharp's toffee paper filters. Seeing and photographing straightforward sunspots is more like train spotting; you see on the website that there's something going on and you see it between the passing clouds and that's it.
I have had some memorable views and a few fair pictures of the Moon, planets and other bits and bobs which are actually atmospheric and I know there's so much more drama going on in the Sun - I just cannot see it at all. £1500 is quite a jump from a Baader filter at £30ish. Is there a happy medium? You can't rely on what manufacturers advertise.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Send them over here if you can't use 'em.
I have only managed pictures through the Baader safety filter, so far and I am horrified at the cost of anything else. It seems that you need an etalon to get those lovely impressive shots that we see on line. What is your experience of solar photography and how many £££ is needed to get a picture really worth looking at?
The attached is good as a 'record' but not much atmosphere about it!

PM me.

Yes, in order to get those sexy solar images, a proper etalon is needed- sub-Angstom linewidths, temperature controlled, etc. big bucks, and I can't justify getting one.

As for "how many £££ is needed to get a picture really worth looking at?", that's a subjective question. I've managed to scavenge spare ND and color filters, so my £££= 0, but are my pictures worth looking at? Some (most) would say 'no'.

One note- I'm pretty sure your posted image (which I find worth looking at!) shows blooming/overexposure. I believe I've mentioned how the auto-exposure and auto-meteriing fails when imaging with narrowband color filters, but I guess it's worth pointing out again.

 

[NFuller]

As a subject for a photo, the full Sun is pretty short on atmosphere and variation. Over the last couple of years I have seen sunspots and managed to enhance them sometimes with one of my Sharp's toffee paper filters. Seeing and photographing straightforward sunspots is more like train spotting; you see on the website that there's something going on and you see it between the passing clouds and that's it.
I have had some memorable views and a few fair pictures of the Moon, planets and other bits and bobs which are actually atmospheric and I know there's so much more drama going on in the Sun - I just cannot see it at all. £1500 is quite a jump from a Baader filter at £30ish. Is there a happy medium? You can't rely on what manufacturers advertise.

If you are trying to get some more detail around sunspots, then you need a low aberration energy rejection filter. The cheap film filters will blur out the details. I think the cheapest I can find is this
http://thousandoaksoptical.com/shop/solar-filters/full-aperture-solarlite/
They claim this filter to have similar characteristics to a glass filter, but as you said, you can't always trust the manufacturer. For an actual glass ERF you are going to pay more. If your looking to see ultra-detailed structure on the Sun, you will need a Ha filter setup. This is where things start getting expensive.
http://thousandoaksoptical.com/shop/h-alpha/h-alpha-9-angstrom-complete-system/

I would take a look at the ERF listed above since its not too expensive. It may give you what you're looking for. Unfortunately, almost everything in amateur astronomy can rapidly become expensive.

 

[sophiecentaur]

If you are trying to get some more detail around sunspots, then you need a low aberration energy rejection filter. The cheap film filters will blur out the details. I think the cheapest I can find is this
http://thousandoaksoptical.com/shop/solar-filters/full-aperture-solarlite/
They claim this filter to have similar characteristics to a glass filter, but as you said, you can't always trust the manufacturer. For an actual glass ERF you are going to pay more. If your looking to see ultra-detailed structure on the Sun, you will need a Ha filter setup. This is where things start getting expensive.
http://thousandoaksoptical.com/shop/h-alpha/h-alpha-9-angstrom-complete-system/

I would take a look at the ERF listed above since its not too expensive. It may give you what you're looking for. Unfortunately, almost everything in amateur astronomy can rapidly become expensive.

The cheaper one looks not too expensive. The other one seems to produce more convincing results but would they convince my wallet?
I guess I will have to scour the secondhand market. I am prepared to wait - which is what all amateur astronomers learn to do.

I believe I've mentioned how the auto-exposure and auto-meteriing fails when imaging with narrowband color filters, but I guess it's worth pointing out again.

I never use auto exposure through the scope. I use wide bracketing and that image was about the best of the bunch. I'm not sure what you are seeing on the picture but I used Unsharp Mask and that may be what you are seeing round the edge(?).
Glad you found it worth looking at, the spots seem pretty well defined. I was struggling with my Live View for fine focussing until I realized about the LCD brightness control. Since that I have seen no sun spots as the Sun has been hiding behind wispy clouds. That's what we find, isn't it? I will PM you now.

 

[davenn]

The attached is good as a 'record' but not much atmosphere about it!

still a great sunspot photo nice job

What is your experience of solar photography and how many £££ is needed to get a picture really worth looking at?

As for "how many £££ is needed to get a picture really worth looking at?", that's a subjective question. I've managed to scavenge spare ND and color filters, so my £££= 0, but are my pictures worth looking at? Some (most) would say 'no'.

yup

Yes, in order to get those sexy solar images, a proper etalon is needed- sub-Angstom linewidths, temperature controlled, etc. big bucks, and I can't justify getting one.

indeed

I just spend AU$2950 on a sub-angstrom Ha solar telescope today !
The main scope and filter unit was AU$2599 and another AU$349 for a zoomable
eyepiece ( the one you can see in the photo)

when I was at the shop, there were a couple of breaks in the clouds. Altho there are no spots on the sun at the moment,
we did see a nice prominence on the limbDave

 

[davenn]

I will get a better photo of it on a tripod soon rather than that small one off the sales www site

This Ha filter is called a Prominence Filter and as the name suggests, shows prominences well, sunspots and
other features. At some stage I will also get a Chromosphere Filter as they show very different information

Typical Prominence Filter images ...

random google image

compare this to a chromospheric filter image ...

from ... https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/246571-17-06-2015-quark-chromosphere/Dave

 

[NFuller]

I just spend AU$2950 on a sub-angstrom Ha solar telescope today !

Can't wait to see your images using this!

 

[davenn]

I still have to sort out the imaging, plus the weather over the last week hasn't been playing ball
Got some views on Thursday and could see some prominences on the limb and a dark filament stretching across the face

Today, Saturday, lots of clouds but got some glimpses
This photo below from a mate, Ian Griffin, back in my old home town, Dunedin, New Zealand,
shows almost exactly what I was also seeing today. I just didn't see some of the finer details

note the large prominence loop on the lower left of the limb ( 7 o'clock position)
smaller ones at 8 and 2 o'clock positions
The very long filament right of centre
I could also see that small filament towards the left edge

Prominences and filaments are the same thing. It is just their position that defines their name
Prominence = on limb
Filament = on the diskDave

 

[davenn]

well dang it !

I can't find any software that I can do standard imaging with my auto guider camera.
I was hoping to use it as an imaging camera as well. I spent hours last nite downloading and installing a number (5)
of programs. Two of them were supposed to work with my cam, but unfortunately they won't recognise it.

Ohhh dear, more money to spend haha.

looking at something along the lines of this ...

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/zwo-asi178mc/

needs to be suitable for both planetary/sun as well as deep space objectsDave

 

[Drakkith]

I can't find any software that I can do standard imaging with my auto guider camera.
I was hoping to use it as an imaging camera as well. I spent hours last nite downloading and installing a number (5)
of programs. Two of them were supposed to work with my cam, but unfortunately they won't recognise it.

I had the same problem with one of my auto-guiders. I ended up buying another cheap camera instead.

 

[davenn]

I had the same problem with one of my auto-guiders. I ended up buying another cheap camera instead.

hey mate,

like a lot of interests/hobbies, tis a hole that money continues to get thrown into haha

The cam I currently have is the Orion Starshoot autoguider

https://optcorp.com/products/or-52064-starshoot-autoguider

It works well with the PHD2 autoguiding software, but with nothing else I have so far triedD

 

[Drakkith]

The cam I currently have is the Orion Starshoot autoguider

https://optcorp.com/products/or-52064-starshoot-autoguider

It works well with the PHD2 autoguiding software, but with nothing else I have so far tried

That's the exact auto-guider I was referring to.

 

[davenn]

That's the exact auto-guider I was referring to.

ohhhh WOW "snap" LOL

I never bought it to do imaging with, at that time it was for autoguiding and I got a small 50mm scope to use it with and the HEQ5 PRO GE mount
It's just now a couple of years later and with my solar scope, I was hoping to press it into use for imaging, sadly it seems its not to beD

 

[NFuller]

I can't find any software that I can do standard imaging with my auto guider camera.

Wow, that's disappointing. Orion claims that the star shoot camera can be used for imaging. Are you sure it's not just a bad setting somewhere. I think the star shoot camera is actually a QHY camera. If you set your software to connect to a QHY it might work.

looking at something along the lines of this ...

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/zwo-asi178mc/

I own an ASI120 which I use for both guiding and planetary imaging. I think they are very good cameras for the price, although some software can be a bit finicky with them.

 

[davenn]

Wow, that's disappointing. Orion claims that the star shoot camera can be used for imaging. Are you sure it's not just a bad setting somewhere. I think the star shoot camera is actually a QHY camera. If you set your software to connect to a QHY it might work.

yeah, just a bit sad

the 2 significant programs I tried (out of the five) were Sharpcap and Firecapture
both of them auto detect camera type, they don't give you the option of specifying a specific camera

they both come up with "camera not connected" or words to that effect

I own an ASI120 which I use for both guiding and planetary imaging. I think they are very good cameras for the price, although some software can be a bit finicky with them.

that has been one I have been looking at. There's a number of versions of that model to choose from
ZWO ASI120MC Colour, ZWO ASI120MM Monochrome, and the same 2 again but with USB3.0 capability

I suspect that these are great for planetary/sun but they may not do so well with deep space objects
So I am looking at something that will give me the best of both worlds. On Monday, I will talk to the guys in the shop and get some good advice and then decide which way to go Dave

 

[NFuller]

I suspect that these are great for planetary/sun but they may not do so well with deep space objects

That's right. There is not a camera which can really do both well. I use the ASI for planetary imaging and an ATIK 414EX M for deep sky imaging.

So I am looking at something that will give me the best of both worlds.

I would suggest that you look for a high frame rate camera with on-board cooling. You really will want the cooler when imaging DSOs using a CMOS type imaging chip. CMOS chips are very noisy and the noise can easily start to overwhelm the faint signal from a DSO.

Here are some of my suggestions although you may find them too pricey...
https://optcorp.com/collections/cameras/products/zwo-asi290mm-cooled-color-astronomy-camera-usb-3-0
https://optcorp.com/collections/cameras/products/atik-titan-monochrome-ccd-camera

 

[davenn]

Thanks for responding :)

That's right. There is not a camera which can really do both well. I use the ASI for planetary imaging and an ATIK 414EX M for deep sky imaging.

Probably not, but hopefully there may be a good compromise, something that is slightly better at DS but still OK for the sun ...
I have never really had the urge for imaging the planets, DS has always been my "love" till recently when I got my first solar scope

I would suggest that you look for a high frame rate camera with on-board cooling. You really will want the cooler when imaging DSOs using a CMOS type imaging chip. CMOS chips are very noisy and the noise can easily start to overwhelm the faint signal from a DSO.

yeah which is why I always prefer the CCD sensors, but there are a number of very low noise CMOS sensors out there out there
The ZWO ASI178MC falls into that category ... 6.4 MP sensor, 2.2e read noise

Here are some of my suggestions although you may find them too pricey...

on their own, no, but after having spent $3k on a stand alone solar scope and another $2k this week on another chromosphere filter
funds at the moment for a top line camera are out of range $500 +- $50 is about the limit which that ZWO ASI178 falls into at $529
Time to talk to the experts at the shop where I get my stuff. They are all active astronomers, so I feel safe with their final recommendationsDave

 

[davenn]

The ZWO ASI178MC falls into that category ... 6.4 MP sensor, 2.2e read noise

well after "talking turkey" with the guy in the shop, I have decided to go with the one above

probably will see it tomorrow and be able to try it out
Crap this hobby can get expensive ! haha AU$5500 in the last monthDave

 

[NFuller]

well after "talking turkey" with the guy in the shop, I have decided to go with the one above

probably will see it tomorrow and be able to try it out

Great! I hope it works out.

Crap this hobby can get expensive ! haha AU$5500 in the last month

Well, most hobbies worth doing end up that way

 

[sophiecentaur]

haha AU$5500 in the last month

You will just need to spend lots of time using it in order to justify the cost.

 

[davenn]

hi guys and gals

OK finally starting to figure out how to use all this new software and hardware for viewing and imaging the sun
finally a first decent image of a prominence today 2017/11/14
gear - Lunt LS60THa solar telescope, ZWO178MC camera and SharpCap software

trying to image in daytime is a real challenge ... dealing with daytime glare on a laptop screen
this is a single image capture

Dave

 

[davenn]

just a quick pic of the setup, the laptop inside cardboard box for some shielding of the screen from the sunlightI needed to stick my head into the box up close to the screen to stop the sunlight reflections off me getting onto the screen ...

 

[sophiecentaur]

Lovely image, Dave.
The hi-tek box and wheelie bin are very impressive too.

 

[davenn]

The hi-tek box and wheelie bin are very impressive too.

"necessity is the mother of invention" ... so I am told

it was suggested elsewhere that ...
1) I paint the inside of the box matt black and
2) I use a dark cloth shroud over the box and my head to further darked things ... think of photographers of old Dave

 

[sophiecentaur]

You could buy a 'toilet tent' as a form of observatory and work the whole think from inside. The scope could poke through a flap. If you cut the bottom off the fabric, you would get good air circulation. These things are available in UK for very low prices so they should be cheap anywhere in the world and you wouldn't need guy it.
PS Don't expect sympathy from a heavily autumnal UK, for having a lot of Sun.