Explosion reported near Boston Marathon finish line

In summary: Just really upsetting.In summary, two explosions have been reported near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, and there are reports of injuries. There is also conflicting information as to whether or not law enforcement has a suspect in custody.
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  • #107
aquitaine said:
So we give them safe refuge and the chance to make something of themselves, and they repay us by attempting to kill a huge number of people, unarmed civilians no less. No good deed goes unpunished?

I think that's a very narrow view to have on the event. I'm not attempting to justify their actions, but if you believe someone who came here on political asylum (and probably by their parents action) that they should only feel gratitude lacks empathy. Moving to a foreign country, not relating well to the new culture, struggling in some form (perhaps school since one of the brothers apparently withdrew from university) can easily cause a person to look back at where they came from with nostalgia . Perhaps in this process, the person became more involved with research involving radical Chechen and felt by carrying out jihad would be one way to connect.

I know from my personal experience, it wasn't until after I left my native country that I only began to appreciate it's unique culture and history and yearned to learn more about it.
 
  • #108
MarneMath said:
I think that's a very narrow view to have on the event. I'm not attempting to justify their actions, but if you believe someone who came here on political asylum (and probably by their parents action) that they should only feel gratitude lacks empathy. Moving to a foreign country, not relating well to the new culture, struggling in some form (perhaps school since one of the brothers apparently withdrew from university) can easily cause a person to look back at where they came from with nostalgia . Perhaps in this process, the person became more involved with research involving radical Chechen and felt by carrying out jihad would be one way to connect.

I know from my personal experience, it wasn't until after I left my native country that I only began to appreciate it's unique culture and history and yearned to learn more about it.

I can see that kind of thing happening maybe for the older brother. He had trouble making friends and has been described as a loner. But I don't understand why the younger guy did it - he was gregarious and well-liked.
 
  • #109
It isn't uncommon for people to seem one way and feel differently in the inside. I once had a soldier who committed suicide one day. In his note, he wrote about how alone and misunderstood he felt. How he never felt he could meet the standards put in front of him and how in the end he has felt he was just a failure and let his family down. The day before he committed suicide, I told my boss that this guy is probably one of the best soldiers I have ever had, clearly highly motivated, well loved by his peers, appreciated by his subordinates, and should be granted his request. Some people are just better at hiding inner demons than others.
 
  • #110
They got him. Boston Police tweet he's in custody.
 
  • #111
  • #112
Astronuc said:
Reports on NPR and other news organizations indicate that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been taken into custody within the last 20 minutes.

Confirmed by Boston Police Dept.

Yay!

Back to "Where's the landmark" thread. :smile:
 
  • #113
If the younger brother is alive and in custody, perhaps we can find out the brothers were part of a larger cell bent on terror.
 
  • #114
I personally don't think they were.

There were quite a few videos online of the older brother discussing his beliefs so to speak. From what I've pieced together it seems as though he's been pretty hot into anti-American discussions over the last 5 years and so far (this is speculative on my part) it seems like he's probably brought his brother along for the ride.

The instructions for the bombs they made are available all over the internet, on sites including youtube. They also didn't seem to have an exit strategy planned, and other bombs made.. so either their exit plan fell through or they planned to place more bombs, which I suspect is what they were doing at the university when they ran a foul, shot the cop and robbed the 7/11.
 
  • #115
With their pictures all over the internet, why would they rob a 7-11? Obviously, they did, but that's just begging to be caught. But instead they killed an officer while trying to escape, so, did they not want to get caught? Are they just two of the dumbest terrorists ever? I just watched a major news channel describe them as "two idiots". That seems to sum them up.
 
  • #116
It looks like the younger brother had gone right back to classes on Tuesday as though nothing happened. I don't think they had an exit strategy at all, and were surprised at how fast the FBI figured them out. My guess is they didn't start trying to escape until their faces were published...and then they made this desperate, half-baked attempt to hijack an SUV and get out. Everything they did starting yesterday was highly irrational (i.e., attracting extra attention to themselves by robbing a 7/11 and shooting a cop), and probably motivated by fear.
 
  • #117
encorp said:
I personally don't think they were.

There were quite a few videos online of the older brother discussing his beliefs so to speak. From what I've pieced together it seems as though he's been pretty hot into anti-American discussions over the last 5 years and so far (this is speculative on my part) it seems like he's probably brought his brother along for the ride.

The instructions for the bombs they made are available all over the internet, on sites including youtube. They also didn't seem to have an exit strategy planned, and other bombs made.. so either their exit plan fell through or they planned to place more bombs, which I suspect is what they were doing at the university when they ran a foul, shot the cop and robbed the 7/11.

Which kind of confirms, what my friend from Hyderabad said, when I compared this to the Mumbai bombing, today.

Om's friend said:
They are young, naive people. There was probably an older person involved, with many ideas, who influenced them.
 
  • #118
I don't buy the hype either, all his family and friends saying Djohar was a sweet, kind kid. Outwardly he may have been, but his twitter account is full of misogynistic comments. Reports from his friends seemed to indicate none of them actually met his older brother ever either. So I'm curious about that relationship, as the same friends have reported they were never invited INTO his home.. always kept at the corner of his street.

I've also looked around at videos and online activity for the older brother and it seems for at least a few years he'd been, at the very least, linking jihadist videos on various forums/youtube. There's even a video of the one guy (I think it's the younger one, but it's hard to tell) discussing similar things, but the only indication I had was from the comments section, which is now disabled.

fwiw, it's here:
 
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  • #119
Evo said:
With their pictures all over the internet, why would they rob a 7-11? Obviously, they did, but that's just begging to be caught. But instead they killed an officer while trying to escape, so, did they not want to get caught? Are they just two of the dumbest terrorists ever? I just watched a major news channel describe them as "two idiots". That seems to sum them up.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boston-area-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Initially, authorities said the brothers started their rampage by robbing a convenience store. By late Friday, the Middlesex District Attorney's office backtracked on the allegation, saying an investigation determined that the robbery at a 7-Eleven was unrelated.

Just to clarify.
 
  • #120
MarneMath said:
I think that's a very narrow view to have on the event. I'm not attempting to justify their actions, but if you believe someone who came here on political asylum (and probably by their parents action) that they should only feel gratitude lacks empathy. Moving to a foreign country, not relating well to the new culture, struggling in some form (perhaps school since one of the brothers apparently withdrew from university) can easily cause a person to look back at where they came from with nostalgia . Perhaps in this process, the person became more involved with research involving radical Chechen and felt by carrying out jihad would be one way to connect.

I know from my personal experience, it wasn't until after I left my native country that I only began to appreciate it's unique culture and history and yearned to learn more about it.


I actually have lived overseas for some time so I get it. I came to understand just why is it the non-Western world is so different, which I discussed at length in this post. But I also saw how third world economies tended to operate and I saw that contrary to what the narrative tends to be, the US is still very much the land of opportunity. Given the state of the Caususes and central Asia, can you honestly say he would have had more opportunities there than here?

And even if what you said is true, it still doesn't take into account the fact that if he was really so interested in Chechen independence why attack a bunch of Americans? Why not go after the Russians some how? I think you're underestimating the corrupting influence Islamism really has. It is a hostile ideology that can and will poison people's minds. Most Islamic terrorists come from well educated middle class backgrounds. The elder brother would certainly seem to be the exception in that regard.
 
  • #121
I don't know how many of you all were actually watching the end unfold on TV, but it came across as the "ultimate reality show."

My wife and I tuned into the local 6pm news, only to have it interrupted after a few minutes by a press conference at which officials reported that they hadn't been able to find the suspect after a whole day of searching Watertown, and were therefore lifting the stay-at-home order and letting public transit resume service.

After a brief weather report (all there was time for in what was left of that half hour), the NBC 6:30 news came on with a wrapup of the day's events, including comments from reporters in Watertown about how people were coming back out onto the streets. Near the end of that half hour, one of those reporters cut in, saying that they had just heard a burst of gunfire, and a flood of law-enforcement vehicles was streaming by. It turned out that he was maybe a couple of blocks from where the suspect had hidden in a boat in a backyard.

For the next couple of hours we got a lot of chatter and speculation about the details of what was actually going on, just out of sight of the cameras. For variety, we switched to ABC, which carried several phone calls from residents holed up in nearby houses, telling us what they could see by peeking out their windows. Finally we got the word that the suspect was alive (barely), in custody, and had been whisked off to a hospital.
 
  • #122
WOW were they ever wrong.

The FBI admitted Friday they interviewed the now-deceased Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev two years ago and failed to find any incriminating information about him.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57580534/fbi-interviewed-dead-boston-bombing-suspect-years-ago/
 
  • #123
edward said:
WOW were they ever wrong.

I don't think even the FBI has interview techniques good enough to find evidence of crimes two years in the future.
 
  • #124
Kudos to the cops. I watched it on the live coverage and they did a hell of a job. At least in bad times like these, people become unified and put on their best colors. Watching the locals cheer and congratulate the cops was very heart warming.
 
  • #125
Evo said:
With their pictures all over the internet, why would they rob a 7-11? Obviously, they did, but that's just begging to be caught.
I understood from the news that they didn't rob the convenience store, that was labeled as misinformation. They were present in the store when the robbery took place. However, time will tell what the exact sequence of events was.

*edit* here a source: http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/312193/250/Boston-bombing-suspects-did-not-rob-7-11
The suspects were at the 7-Eleven around the time of the robbery but they did not rob the store said, State Police Superintendent Timothy Alban at an evening press conference on Friday.

At an earlier press conference morning, when Alben described the manhunt and standoff that resulted in the death of an MIT police officer, he also said that the two brothers robbed a 7-Eleven.

Chabris says the story of the robbed 7-Eleven was online immediately and spread quickly. She has been calling journalists all day to ask them to make a correction.
 
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  • #126
aquitaine said:
I actually have lived overseas for some time so I get it. I came to understand just why is it the non-Western world is so different, which I discussed at length in this post. But I also saw how third world economies tended to operate and I saw that contrary to what the narrative tends to be, the US is still very much the land of opportunity. Given the state of the Caususes and central Asia, can you honestly say he would have had more opportunities there than here?

And even if what you said is true, it still doesn't take into account the fact that if he was really so interested in Chechen independence why attack a bunch of Americans? Why not go after the Russians some how? I think you're underestimating the corrupting influence Islamism really has. It is a hostile ideology that can and will poison people's minds. Most Islamic terrorists come from well educated middle class backgrounds. The elder brother would certainly seem to be the exception in that regard.

I don't think this thread is really appropriate place for us to go at length on this topic, so I'll make two quick points. Even if country A has less opportunity than country B, doesn't mean person x would prefer country A over country B. There's a thousand and one reasons why someone would prefer or feel nostalgic for home that has nothing to do with economic advancement.

I never stated anything about Chechen independence. When I was in Iraq, we constantly found Chechen fighters. I simply stated the aspect of jihad that some Chechen extreme Muslim have done. As for how corrupting Islam is, I won't comment on that either. I would just hope people on this forum would have the ability to not judge an entire religion based on the very few people who decide to use violence to advance a political goal not entirely consistent with their beliefs.
 
  • #127
I never stated anything about Chechen independence. When I was in Iraq, we constantly found Chechen fighters. I simply stated the aspect of jihad that some Chechen extreme Muslim have done. As for how corrupting Islam is, I won't comment on that either. I would just hope people on this forum would have the ability to not judge an entire religion based on the very few people who decide to use violence to advance a political goal not entirely consistent with their beliefs.




Hitchens said it best, judge it by its texts and statements by its authorities, just like any other religion.


Monique said:
I understood from the news that they didn't rob the convenience store, that was labeled as misinformation. They were present in the store when the robbery took place. However, time will tell what the exact sequence of events was.


I think this whole exercise demonstrates how confusing a fluid situation can be. Still, I don't think I've ever seen anything like this, even the hunt for the Unabomber wasn't this intense.
 
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  • #128
Monique said:
I understood from the news that they didn't rob the convenience store, that was labeled as misinformation.
Yes, I know, my comment was from yesterday when it was still being said they were involved in the robbery.
 
  • #129
Evo said:
Yes, I know, my comment was from yesterday when it was still being said they were involved in the robbery.

It's hard to not get swept up.

It will be interesting to watch how the journalism community reflects on its frenzy.
The next hurricane season after Hurricane Andrew the Miami TV stations acted very calm.
The year after that it was back to their old behavior - scream shout and rush about.

I suppose it's natural to want to be exciting on camera. Being a joe-sixpack plodder type myself I try to consciously filter that out of the news because I am susceptible to frenzy.
I prefer listening reporters who are calm and deliberate.
The drumbeating soundtrack in most newscast introductions I find a turnoff, pure self aggrandizement .
 
  • #130
jim hardy said:
It's hard to not get swept up.

It will be interesting to watch how the journalism community reflects on its frenzy.
The next hurricane season after Hurricane Andrew the Miami TV stations acted very calm.
The year after that it was back to their old behavior - scream shout and rush about.

I suppose it's natural to want to be exciting on camera. Being a joe-sixpack plodder type myself I try to consciously filter that out of the news because I am susceptible to frenzy.
I prefer listening reporters who are calm and deliberate.
The drumbeating soundtrack in most newscast introductions I find a turnoff, pure self aggrandizement .

I get 99% of my news from PF.

God help me if you kids are watching Fox... :-p
 
  • #131
jim hardy said:
The drumbeating soundtrack in most newscast introductions I find a turnoff, pure self aggrandizement .
I believe it is much, much worse. It is in fact partly responsible for the next tragedy.
 
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  • #132
aquitaine said:
...
Hitchens said it best, judge it by its texts and statements by its authorities, just like any other religion.
...

What if,

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558057_10152753776220527_234125752_n.jpg​

what if...

--------------------------
ok by me if you lock this thread. It's gone religiosity, as expected...
 
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  • #133
humanino said:
I believe it is much, much worse. It is in fact partly responsible for the next tragedy.


BAM!

er...

I mean, bingo.

thanks humanio. Good share. :smile:
 
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  • #134
I'm having some trouble with the way that "suspect #2" is being treated. There are some in our government that want to deprive him of any legal representation, starting with no Miranda rights.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-marathon-bombing-suspect-is-un-american?lite

There are some in our government that want him imprisoned as an "enemy combatant" (Gitmo, anyone?).
http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/political-insider/2013/apr/20/saxby-chambliss-treat-boston-suspect-enemy-combata/

And yet others who would like to see him tortured.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/20/greg-ball-torture_n_3122524.html

The bomber came to the US as a child and has been here over a decade. He is a naturalized US citizen. Can any US citizen be deprived of basic legal rights? If so, where does it stop?. The crimes that he and his older brother are accused of are horrific. Still, is the US legal system unable to process him even in the face of accusations of such terrible offenses?

IMO, I would be a breath of fresh air if politicians would stop trying to subvert our judicial system to make points at home.
 
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  • #135
turbo said:
I'm having some trouble with the way that "suspect #2" is being treated. There are some in our government that want to deprive him of any legal representation, starting with no Miranda rights.
They will be using the "public safety exception" which does not read him his miranda rights for 48 hours based on the act of terrorism. It's legal and I find this appropriate. It will probably do them no good anyway, unfortunately.
 
  • #136
Evo said:
They will be using the "public safety exception" which does not read him his miranda rights for 48 hours based on the act of terrorism. It's legal and I find this appropriate. It will probably do them no good anyway, unfortunately.

I tried reading up a little on this and the verbiage is a little too technical for me. I have a couple of questions, if anyone knows.
What's the big deal with reading the Miranda rights in the first place? Doesn't a person have rights regardless if they've been read to them or not? And what does delaying him the reading of his rights have to do with public safety?
 
  • #137
What's the big deal with reading the Miranda rights in the first place?

There exist lawyers who'd consider it a feather in their cap to get him off on a technicality.

Part of me does pity the kid for the mistake he's made - but not enough to let bygones be bygones.

I saw the original 'Dirty Harry" movie just the other day. It seems more relevant today than it did in 1975.
 
  • #138
OmCheeto said:
What if,

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558057_10152753776220527_234125752_n.jpg​

what if...

--------------------------
ok by me if you lock this thread. It's gone religiosity, as expected...


I'm not Christian, and I do view the Westboro Church as being representative of the real Christian faith. You will find no double standards with me.
 
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  • #139
leroyjenkens said:
What's the big deal with reading the Miranda rights in the first place? Doesn't a person have rights regardless if they've been read to them or not? And what does delaying him the reading of his rights have to do with public safety?

Isn't it so that a suspect isn't coerced into saying something that will incriminate him under a high-pressure interrogation environment, and so it is clear that he knows he has the right to remain silent, and to consult a lawyer. This suspect will still have the rights, he just doesn't have to be reminded of them. So if the first thing he says is that he wants a lawyer, and will invoke his right to remain silent, then there will be no difference to any other arrest. And, since this suspect is probably smart, I can't see him talking without a lawyer! (I guess this is what Evo was thinking, when she said it will probably do them no good).
 
  • #140
cristo said:
Isn't it so that a suspect isn't coerced into saying something that will incriminate him under a high-pressure interrogation environment, and so it is clear that he knows he has the right to remain silent, and to consult a lawyer. This suspect will still have the rights, he just doesn't have to be reminded of them. So if the first thing he says is that he wants a lawyer, and will invoke his right to remain silent, then there will be no difference to any other arrest. And, since this suspect is probably smart, I can't see him talking without a lawyer! (I guess this is what Evo was thinking, when she said it will probably do them no good).


Wasn't he also bleeding heavily and taken away in an ambulance? Even if he was Mirandized I doubt he was in a good enough mental condition to effectively process it anyway.
 

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