Gauss' law for concentric circles

In summary, a small conducting spherical shell with inner radius a and outer radius b is concentric with a larger conducting spherical shell with inner radius c and outer radius d. The inner shell has total charge -2q and the outer shell has charge +4q. Using Gauss' law, the electric field is calculated for various distances r from the common center of the two shells. The distribution of charge on the larger shell is necessary to ensure a zero electric field inside the conductor. The total charge on the inner surface of the small shell is -2q, while the total charge on the outer surface is +2q. On the inner surface of the larger shell, there is +2q charge to cancel out the -2q charge on
  • #71
You have two concentric shells. The pink regions are conductors, the electric field in a conductor is zero.
The empty spaces are voids, there are electric fields inside them, except the central part enclosed by the small shell.
The geometry has spherical symmetry, so is the symmetry of the field.
The charge on the shells can move and redistributed, but no charge can leave any of the shells.
Consider a Gaussian sphere inside the innermost void. There are no charge enclosed, the field is zero.
Consider a concentric sphere inside the first pink region. The electric field must be zero, so that Gaussian sphere does not enclose any charge. There is no charge inside the conductor or on the inner surface of the shell.
Consider a sphere just outside the first shell. How much charge does it enclose? What is the electric field at radius r in the region between the shells?
Consider a sphere inside the outer pink region. It is conductor, the field is zero. How much is the enclosed charge then?
This sphere encloses the small shell and the inner surface of the big shell. How much is the charge that compensates the charge of the inner shell?
Where can this excess charge be distributed? It can not be inside the metal. It can not leave the shell. Where is it?
If there is some charge on the inner surface of the big shell, how much is on the outer surface?
 

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  • #72
ehild said:
Consider a sphere just outside the first shell
like this?

like.png
 
  • #73
ehild said:
How much charge does it enclose?
You have not shown any charges.
 
  • #75
gracy said:
You have not shown any charges.
Shall I refer my op.
 
  • #76
gracy said:
Shall I refer my op.
Yes, it is the original problem. The inner shell has total charge -2q and the outer shell has charge +4q.
 
  • #77
ehild said:
How much charge does it enclose?
-2q.
 
  • #78
ehild said:
Consider a sphere just outside the first shell. How much charge does it enclose?
gracy said:
-2q.
 
  • #79
ehild said:
What is the electric field at radius r in the region between the shells?
That's where I am stuck.
 
  • #80
gracy said:
That's where I am stuck.
What does Gauss' Law say?
 
  • #81
is my post #78 correct?
 
  • #82
gracy said:
is my post #78 correct?
Yes, the enclosed charge is -2q.
 
  • #83
ehild said:
What is the electric field at radius r in the region between the shells?
you mean at p?
G.png
 
  • #84
Yes, at P or at any other point at the same distance from the centre.
 
  • #85
I am not sure about charge enclosed by this gaussian surface.I know that there is -2q but is +2q also inside it?
 
  • #86
That Gaussian surface encloses the small shell, and some from the void. There is -2q charge on the small shell, and no charge in the empty space. Why should be 2q also inside it??
 
  • #87
ehild said:
Why should be 2q also inside it??
What If I increase r?

ehild said:
What is the electric field at radius r in the region between the shells?
it is still between the shells.

t.png
 
  • #88
Yes. So what is the electric field? I would like to see the formula.
 
  • #89
If i refer picture of post #87 it will include +2q charge also
 
  • #90
gracy said:
If i refer picture of post #87 it will include +2q charge also
NO. Why do you think so?
 
  • #91
ehild said:
NO. Why do you think so?

y.png
 
  • #92
gracy said:
Once again, that +2q charge is on the surface of the outer conductor, not in the space between conductors.

From r > b to r < c there is no charge, only empty space.
 
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  • #93
Doc Al said:
that +2q charge is on the surface of the outer conductor, not in the space between conductors.
Ok.I finally understand.Can we proceed?
 
  • #94
ehild said:
What is the electric field at radius r in the region between the shells?
It would be - 2q/4πε0r^2
 
  • #95
ehild said:
Consider a sphere inside the outer pink region. It is conductor, the field is zero. How much is the enclosed charge then?
zero.
 
  • #96
ehild said:
This sphere encloses the small shell and the inner surface of the big shell. How much is the charge that compensates the charge of the inner shell?
+2q
 
  • #97
ehild said:
It can not leave the shell. Where is it?
on the outer surface.
 
  • #98
ehild said:
If there is some charge on the inner surface of the big shell, how much is on the outer surface?
+2q.Now I understood the complete setup of the problem.
 
  • #99
I am happy :oldsmile:
 
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  • #100
Wait.
what is the distance of -2q (distributed throughout the outer surface of inner conductor) from the center of inner shell?How can it be b?
 
  • #101
Because -2q is distributed how it can have only one distance from the center of inner shell?
 
  • #102
gracy said:
Wait.
what is the distance of -2q (distributed throughout the outer surface of inner conductor) from the center of inner shell?How can it be b?
The outer radius of the inner shell is b. The charge distributes on the outer surface of the inner shell. It is "surface charge". How far is the surface of a sphere from the centre of the sphere?
 
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  • #103
ehild said:
How far is the surface of a sphere from the centre of the sphere?
The answer is b.
 
  • #104
gracy said:
Because -2q is distributed how it can have only one distance from the center of inner shell?
It is distributed on the outer surface of the shell. Again: at what distance are the points of the surface of a sphere from the centre of the sphere?
 
  • #105
I was asking we take the +2q as a whole in spite of the fact that they are distributed.
 
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