General Mathematics Grade 9 -- Find the length of a diagonal of the cuboid

In summary, the conversation is about finding the length of a diagonal of a solid cuboid with a volume of 40cm3 and a total surface area of 100cm^3. The cuboid has one edge with a length of 2cm and the question asks for the length of the diagonal to be given correct to 3 significant figures. The individual has attempted the question by writing down the formulas for volume and surface area and labelling the unknown length as x. They have attempted to solve the equations but are struggling to find a logical method and are unsure which solution to use for the width and height. Another individual points out that the incorrect assumption has been made that all sides are 2cm and offers guidance on how to approach
  • #36
That's 1 isn't it?
Sorry, having a rough day.
So it's 40?
 
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  • #37
Physiona said:
That's 1 isn't it?
Sorry, having a rough day.
So it's 40?
Right. So now what does your equation 4H + 80/H + 40/H * H = 100 become?
 
  • #38
4H + 80/H + 40 = 100
 
  • #39
Physiona said:
4H + 80/H + 40 = 100
OK. Now solve it for H.
 
  • #40
The fraction bit of 4H and 80/H is confusing. Do I multiply 4H by H and divide 80?
 
  • #41
Physiona said:
The fraction bit of 4H and 80/H is confusing. Do I multiply 4H by H and divide 80?
Try multiplying the whole equation by H.
 
  • #42
Will I get 4H2 + 120 = 100
 
  • #43
Physiona said:
Will I get 4H2 + 120 = 100
Nope. You need to multiply each term in the equation (on both sides) by H. Also, what is ##\frac H H##?
 
  • #44
4H * H = 4H2
80/H = 80H/H or 80 I presume
40 * H = 40H
100 * H = 100H
Is this right?
 
  • #45
Physiona said:
4H * H = 4H2
80/H = 80H/H or 80 I presume
40 * H = 40H
100 * H = 100H
Is this right?
Right. Can you explain to me why if ##x + y + z = c##, then ##ax + ay + az = ac##?
 
  • #46
You're multiplying by a coefficient of a for all the terms aren't you?
 
  • #47
Physiona said:
You're multiplying by a coefficient of a for all the terms aren't you?
Right. And why does that work?
 
  • #48
Because they all have a common like term in them? I'm not sure..
 
  • #49
Physiona said:
Because they all have a common like term in them? I'm not sure..
If you start with ##x=3## and then say if you multiply both sides by a, then why is ##ax = 3a##?
 
  • #50
To make it balanced with the same coefficient. Right? As you multiply both sides by a..
 
  • #51
Physiona said:
To make it balanced with the same coefficient. Right? As you multiply both sides by a..
Say you have a number. Whatever you decide to call it, it's the same number, right? So whether you call it 3 or you call it x, it's the same number. That's what it means when we say ##x=3##. If you take that number and multiply it by a, then you get the same result whether you call it ##x## or 3. So you can say ##ax = 3a##. The point is, when you have an equation, if you want both sides to stay equal, you can't multiply one side by a number (or a variable) without multiplying the other side by the same number. In the same way, if you want to maintain equality, you can't multiple one term in an equation by a number without multiplying all of the other terms in the equation on both sides by the same number.
So now, take your equation 4H + 80/H + 40 = 100 and multiply by H.
Physiona said:
To make it balanced with the same coefficient. Right? As you multiply both sides by a..
 
  • #52
tnich said:
Say you have a number. Whatever you decide to call it, it's the same number, right? So whether you call it 3 or you call it x, it's the same number. That's what it means when we say ##x=3##. If you take that number and multiply it by a, then you get the same result whether you call it ##x## or 3. So you can say ##ax = 3a##. The point is, when you have an equation, if you want both sides to stay equal, you can't multiply one side by a number (or a variable) without multiplying the other side by the same number. In the same way, if you want to maintain equality, you can't multiple one term in an equation by a number without multiplying all of the other terms in the equation on both sides by the same number.
So now, take your equation 4H + 80/H + 40 = 100 and multiply by H.
I'm sorry but I did do that, and you haven't gave feedback on it. (Refer to post 44)
 
  • #53
Physiona said:
I'm sorry but I did do that, and you haven't gave feedback on it. (Refer to post 44)
You have not written the equation, yet. Multiply both sides of 4H + 80/H + 40 = 100 by H and show me what you get.
 
  • #54
tnich said:
You have not written the equation, yet. Multiply both sides of 4H + 80/H + 40 = 100 by H and show me what you get.
You should get a single equation as a result.
 
  • #55
I get 4H2 + 80 + 40H = 100H
 
  • #56
Physiona said:
I get 4H2 + 80 + 40H = 100H
Great! Now solve that for H.
 
  • #57
Okay thank you!
So do I collect like terms from both side:
4H2 + 80 = 100H - 40H
4H2+80= 60H


Hang on, can I solve it as a quadratic?
In the form of:
4H2-60H+80=0
 
  • #58
Physiona said:
Okay thank you!
So do I collect like terms from both side:
4H2 + 80 = 100H - 40H
4H2+80= 60H


Hang on, can I solve it as a quadratic?
In the form of:
4H2-60H+80=0
Go ahead.
 
  • #59
I end up with two solutions of:
13.520797289396
1.4792027106039
Is this correct?
 
  • #60
Physiona said:
I end up with two solutions of:
13.520797289396
1.4792027106039
Is this correct?
I think so. Now that you have H, how are you going to find L?
 
  • #61
Substitute it in the equation L.
(There's two numbers for H however..)
 
  • #62
Physiona said:
Substitute it in the equation L.
(There's two numbers for H however..)
Try them both and see what you get.
 
  • #63
For H1= 13.520797289..
I got L1= 1.479202711

For H2= 1.4792027106039
I got L2= 13.52079729
 
  • #64
Physiona said:
For H1= 13.520797289..
I got L1= 1.479202711

For H2= 1.4792027106039
I got L2= 13.52079729
Notice anything odd/interesting about that?
 
  • #65
tnich said:
Notice anything odd/interesting about that?
Yes they are similar!
I presume I use one set of them into substituting it in the diagonal length formula.
Thank you so much, you have literally taught me this question in hours which my teacher can't even teach in 3 years!
I give you all my thanks, and thank you for guiding me till the very last.
 
  • #66
Physiona said:
Yes I know, however I have unknowns,
So you'd make the surface area equation equal to the answer along with the Unknown coefficients.
2(2*H+L*2+L*H) = 100cm3
And the volume:
2*L*H =40cm3
There's a much easier way of solving this. Divide both sides of both equations by 2 to obtain:
$$2H+2L+LH=50\tag{1}$$
$$LH=20\tag{2}$$Subtract Eqn.2 from Eqn. 1 to yield: $$2(L+H)=30\tag{3}$$or$$L+H=15\tag{4}$$Square this equation to obtain:
$$(L+H)^2=L^2+2LH+H^2=225\tag{5}$$ Subtract 2 times Eqn. 2 from this equation to obtain:$$L^2+H^2=225-40=185\tag{6}$$Add ##W^2=4## to this equation to obtain:
$$L^2+W^2+H^2=185+4=189\tag{7}$$
 
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  • #67
Physiona said:
Yes they are similar!
I presume I use one set of them into substituting it in the diagonal length formula.
Thank you so much, you have literally taught me this question in hours which my teacher can't even teach in 3 years!
I give you all my thanks, and thank you for guiding me till the very last.

Not only are they similar, they just swap the variables. After all, YOU know what you mean by length and height, but the model does not! It just knows that one of them should be about 1.48 and the other should be about 13.52
 
  • #68
Ray Vickson said:
Not only are they similar, they just swap the variables. After all, YOU know what you mean by length and height, but the model does not! It just knows that one of them should be about 1.48 and the other should be about 13.52
Yes thank you for your guidance. As said before, this question came in my exam and I did struggle as I judged the question really quickly into thinking it's hard, however after multiple attempts and solutions I figured it. Thank you for the support though.
 
  • #69
Chestermiller said:
There's a much easier way of solving this. Divide both sides of both equations by 2 to obtain:
$$2H+2L+LH=50\tag{1}$$
$$LH=20\tag{2}$$Subtract Eqn.2 from Eqn. 1 to yield: $$2(L+H)=30\tag{3}$$or$$L+H=15\tag{4}$$Square this equation to obtain:
$$(L+H)^2=L^2+2LH+H^2=225\tag{5}$$ Subtract 2 times Eqn. 2 from this equation to obtain:$$L^2+H^2=225-40=185\tag{6}$$Add ##W^2=4## to this equation to obtain:
$$L^2+W^2+H^2=185+4=189\tag{7}$$
Oh okay. May I ask how do you obtain the "Subtract 2 times Eqn. 2"? Do you multiply LH =20 by 2, and then subtract?
 
  • #70
Physiona said:
Oh okay. May I ask how do you obtain the "Subtract 2 times Eqn. 2"? Do you multiply LH =20 by 2, and then subtract?
Sure.
 
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