Getting a B.S. in Physics was a big mistake aparently.

[ljackson]

It is extremely difficult to work in physics with only a physics undergraduate degree. And this really doesn't matter where you graduated from. When I was writing my essay on being a physicist, I tried to impress upon two important things:

1. Making sure an undergraduate equip him/herself with "marketable skills", and

2. Being aware of the type of non-physics opportunities that might be possible after graduation.

There are several physics programs, mainly in less well-known schools, that are now slowly realizing this and tailoring their undergraduate programs so that their graduates can get a decent chance of getting a job. This includes making the physics degree program more interdisciplinary, such as physics and journalism, physics and law, etc. One can already see where such mix can be very beneficial and the kind of job opportunities that can open up.

Someone who plans on only pursuing a B.Sc in physics needs to make a more careful preparation while in school and needs to think about "employability" way ahead of someone who intends on going on to graduate school. That would be the best advice that I can give.

Zz.

Its a good thing I am not trying to work directly in physics as I've pointed out a few times...

As said before, I've been trying to get jobs in the programming/comp sci/engineering disciplines as I have much experience and expertise in.

 

[mathwonk]

to get a job, you ask employers what they are looking for and then you provide it.

you do not sit around saying, here i am, when is someone going to appreciate me and pay me to do what i want to do?

although it might seem wrong, no one is advised to feel entitled to a job.

feeling sorry for yourself and blaming it on poor advice does not help a lot.

 

[ljackson]

to get a job, you ask employers what they are looking for and then you provide it.

you do not sit around saying, here i am, when is someone going to appreciate me and pay me to do what i want to do?

although it might seem wrong, no one is advised to feel entitled to a job.

feeling sorry for yourself and blaming it on poor advice does not help a lot.

I have the skills, education and experience of what they are looking for. The problem arises is that they see B.S. Physics and not B.S. Engineering/comp sci and won't even talk to me.

Ive never sit around saying "when is someone going to apprecite me and pay me to do what I want to do". Where did you get that from? It was certainly not from what I posted? I would love to do internship/ work for next to nothing to get my foot in the door in any science/enginering/programming setting.

You have problems if you don't think someone who is willing to work their ass off and do anything to prove themself is not entitled to a job.

I never once blamed it on poor advice, I simply stated that I was given poor advice.

What is your problem?

Next time you go to give advice, make sure it makes sense/ is applicable/ has anything to do with the topic (and what has been previously said) at hand.

The attitude you give off is very parallel to attitude of employers. Just as they see B.S. Physics and assume everything, you have read the thread title and assumed everything.

 

[mace2]

I have the skills, education and experience of what they are looking for. The problem arises is that they see B.S. Physics and not B.S. Engineering/comp sci and won't even talk to me.

Ive never sit around saying "when is someone going to apprecite me and pay me to do what I want to do". Where did you get that from? It was certainly not from what I posted? I would love to do internship/ work for next to nothing to get my foot in the door in any science/enginering/programming setting.

You have problems if you don't think someone who is willing to work their ass off and do anything to prove themself is not entitled to a job.

I never once blamed it on poor advice, I simply stated that I was given poor advice.

What is your problem?

Next time you go to give advice, make sure it makes sense/ is applicable/ has anything to do with the topic (and what has been previously said) at hand.

The attitude you give off is very parallel to attitude of employers. Just as they see B.S. Physics and assume everything, you have read the thread title and assumed everything.

If this is how you approach criticism it might indicate why you have trouble getting a job.

 

[Poop-Loops]

If this is how you approach criticism it might indicate why you have trouble getting a job.

Oh please. He was criticized for things he wasn't guilty of and rightfully objected to it. Now you tell him he should bend over and take it when people yell at him, even if it's not his fault? Just stop.

 

[RasslinGod]

Physics + Business??

Is this a good combo? I'm sort of interested in business. But is there a good chance i can be involved in both at the same time? Doing science AND business??

 

[trinitron]

"Oh please. He was criticized for things he wasn't guilty of and rightfully objected to it. Now you tell him he should bend over and take it when people yell at him, even if it's not his fault? Just stop."

Seconded.

 

[Shackleford]

I concur.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Is this a good combo? I'm sort of interested in business. But is there a good chance i can be involved in both at the same time? Doing science AND business??

You bet. In fact, I am pretty sure that's where the big bucks are. For example, if you become a patent lawyer, you can make some good money. Not exactly business, but you get my meaning.

 

[mace2]

Perhaps I was wrong. I apologize.

 

[ljackson]

If this is how you approach criticism it might indicate why you have trouble getting a job.

It is not that I was criticized. It was that the criticism did not apply to me as all of his accusations and assumptions were complete opposite to what I have said.

 

[ZapperZ]

Is this a good combo? I'm sort of interested in business. But is there a good chance i can be involved in both at the same time? Doing science AND business??

It's a good combo, but outside of doing a double major, it isn't as easy to find a school with that kind of interdisciplinary program. If you can find one, great.

What I have seen a few physics majors have done are get their undergraduate degrees in physics, and then branch out at the graduate level, either doing an MBA, Law, or even Medicine. The Physics+Law combination is "lethal". Lawyers with science/technical background, especially computer science or computer engineering, are in quite a demand.

Zz.

 

[AsianSensationK]

The original poster is probably right about not being able to do much with a BS in physics.

Employers are really particular about what they're looking for most of the time. If you don't have it, you're out of the running and someone else is in. At least, that's what I've been noticing during my job hunt. Although I'm not quite as accomplished as the original poster.

I'm not really sure, but are there any professional certifications that people might be able to test for which would make them look like less of a risk? Sometimes employers like certifications because there's a standardized way of ensuring new hires have the knowledge that employers want them to have. In finance, the CFA is a big one (although it seems that industry is in ruins right now). Are there any common ones for engineering or programming?

The only other option is to take a job you might not have wanted coming out of school while continuing your education. Sales isn't the worst option in the world.

 

[Smacal1072]

Certifications

A good certification to get is to become Sun-Certified in Java. It let's employers know that you can code. I'm about to get my useless BS in physics and plan on getting that certification. Also going to pursue an MS in Comp Sci

 

[Shackleford]

I thought about taking the Engineering-In-Training Exam after I graduate.

 

[fizziks]

I thought about taking the Engineering-In-Training Exam after I graduate.

I've thought about taking that test. Is it only limited to students with engineering degrees/major?

 

[Firefox123]

I have a B.S. in physics from a reputable school with a good GPA, numerous publications in highly reputable journals and I am still not able to get a job anywhere. Hell, I can't even get an interview because very very few jobs want someone with a degree in physics. They want an engineering discipline or computer science discipline. Both of which I'm very well versed in from my research experience and highly capable.

Yet, I've been told at least 20 times this year that a Physics degree is not what they are looking for.

I was planning on getting my M.S. right away, but I really need a job to pay for piling up bills and am thus only able to go part-time.

My advice, or rather statement, is do not try to get a job with just a B.S. in physics.

My problem was believing my advisors and online sources that engineering/comp sci disciplines would be intersted in a physics degree.

/Edit: I am so depressed lol

Have you tried looking at some of the govt contractors?

Companies like Lockheed, Northrop, SAIC, General Dynamics, BAE, BAH, Raytheon, etc.

They hire BS physics guys...

 

[Integral]

keep trying, I have been steadily employed for the last 30yrs with a BS in Physics.

That is 4 completely different jobs, with state and private, large and small. The smallest company was 4 of us working in a rich guys garage, the largest is my current with ~100k employees. I know of at least 3 others with physics degrees working as engineers.

 

[Shackleford]

I'd like to do engineering with BS physics. For what engineering branch would I be most suited?

 

[rbj]

I'd like to do engineering with BS physics. For what engineering branch would I be most suited?

could be any (maybe not Chem E unless you had a lot of Chemistry, too) but it seems to me that you would be bored in CE. if you're a mechanical kinda guy go for ME, if you're more of an electrical or electronics kinda guy then EE. these four main branches of engineering have sub-branches, like aeronautical, automotive, biomedical, petroleum, environmental, architectural engineering, etc.

 

[HungryChemist]

It's a good combo, but outside of doing a double major, it isn't as easy to find a school with that kind of interdisciplinary program. If you can find one, great.

What I have seen a few physics majors have done are get their undergraduate degrees in physics, and then branch out at the graduate level, either doing an MBA, Law, or even Medicine. The Physics+Law combination is "lethal". Lawyers with science/technical background, especially computer science or computer engineering, are in quite a demand.

Zz.

Try George Washington University's MBA-Physics (Ph.D) joint program for one.

 

[sx70]

keep trying, I have been steadily employed for the last 30yrs with a BS in Physics.

That is 4 completely different jobs, with state and private, large and small. The smallest company was 4 of us working in a rich guys garage, the largest is my current with ~100k employees. I know of at least 3 others with physics degrees working as engineers.

I've also been steadily employed in engineering and R&D positions for 25 years with a BS in Physics. I've been going part time for the past 3 years on an MS degree and am currently only a couple courses and a thesis away from it.

I've also worked at a mixture of small (~30 employees) to my current large (>100k employees) companies. As another poster mentioned large defence/aerospace companies may be a good place to look. However, I'd suggest to the OP to look at smaller companies, they probably don't show up at your schools employment events - you may have to track them down thru trade publications. They don't have to sort thru as many people and typically aren't so picky about degree majors. You will probably have a more significant role and do a wider variety of things at a smaller company. You probably also want to look in interdisciplinary engineering fields - why compete with a zillion EE's for a straight EE job that they have more specific training for? Look for areas you might have the advantage over at straight EE or ME - optics, acoustics, materials, high vacuum, control system software that needs a lot of hardware knowledge. Something even tangetially related to your research experience - see if companies that made some of the equipment you worked with are looking for anyone. You mentioned having different versions of your resume - great idea, you may want to go even further and tailor resumes to each job you apply for. I've also found that formatting the resume differently can help - often new grads put a education section first, then an employment section. Try putting a listing of accomplishments and/or the skills you've derived from the accomplishments first then a very brief employment history and brief education section. Your research and publications should put you noticeably above many new graduates. Many standard resume books and programs can help you here. Part of the problem your having may just be the general state of the economy. I had this issue myself when I graduated. After months of a conventional job search with no real interest what really worked for my college room mate and myself was investing a few hundred bucks in airline tickets and flying out from the midwest to LA and staying at his cousins place. There were far more openings listed in their paper than we had a clue existed. We cold called around on Monday - explained that we were out for a week and they'd better talk to us while they could. We basically filled a week with interview with no trouble. People were very willing to talk if they didn't have to invest in our travel expenses, and they liked our gumption in getting out there to them. We both eventually got several job offers out of that one trip. LA may not be the place to go anymore, you may have some other area of the country you like better or that the industry you're interested in is concentrated but I'd encourage you to give it a try. Best of luck!

 

[Poop-Loops]

A friend sent me this:

http://www.physics.uconn.edu/Undaff/IndPhys.html

 

[fizziks]

A friend sent me this:

http://www.physics.uconn.edu/Undaff/IndPhys.html

I somewhat agree with that. But the article seems to be directed more towards those with PhDs.

Maybe 15-20 years ago, engineering and physics were very close. People with physics degree could land an engineering job easily. There wasn't much difference between them (probably course-wise).

However, times change... as the years have been pass, engineering has become more sophisticated and specialized. Physics is still very general and broad. That may be good for some jobs, but not all. For an example, an automobile company would most likely hire a mechanical engineer than a physicist to help design their cars.

You may be a MORE likable person with good social skills than the engineer that's applying for the same job, but if you lack the experience and knowledge of the field you won't have much options.

 

[symbolipoint]

Interesting point of view expressed from fizziks:

I somewhat agree with that. But the article seems to be directed more towards those with PhDs.

Maybe 15-20 years ago, engineering and physics were very close. People with physics degree could land an engineering job easily. There wasn't much difference between them (probably course-wise).

However, times change... as the years have been pass, engineering has become more sophisticated and specialized. Physics is still very general and broad. That may be good for some jobs, but not all. For an example, an automobile company would most likely hire a mechanical engineer than a physicist to help design their cars.

You may be a MORE likable person with good social skills than the engineer that's applying for the same job, but if you lack the experience and knowledge of the field you won't have much options.

We should not be surprised if in the next couple of years colleges & universities which offer Bachelor... degrees in Physics will insist on sets of "cognate" courses in Engineering for Physic major students. Maybe undergraduate degrees in Physics will be fitted with a few specific options as is done in some other kinds of colege programs. There could be the business option, the pure physics option, the teaching option, the engineering option...

 

[Shackleford]

I somewhat agree with that. But the article seems to be directed more towards those with PhDs.

Maybe 15-20 years ago, engineering and physics were very close. People with physics degree could land an engineering job easily. There wasn't much difference between them (probably course-wise).

However, times change... as the years have been pass, engineering has become more sophisticated and specialized. Physics is still very general and broad. That may be good for some jobs, but not all. For an example, an automobile company would most likely hire a mechanical engineer than a physicist to help design their cars.

You may be a MORE likable person with good social skills than the engineer that's applying for the same job, but if you lack the experience and knowledge of the field you won't have much options.

So, you're saying physics majors have better social skills than engineering majors? lol.

 

[fizziks]

So, you're saying physics majors have better social skills than engineering majors? lol.

maybe... Physics required so less work, you had more time to hang out with friends, work, or just whatever. I knew some friends back in college that were engineering majors; for them it was mostly work, work on projects, class, and study. But I'm pretty sure it pays off a bit more at the end.

But at the end, good social and communication skills may impress the employer, but it won't save you for not having specialized or even general knowledge in an engineering field.

 

[eep]

I'd have to disagree with physics being less work than engineering, but I think the truth of the matter is that it really depends on the university.

 

[Shackleford]

I've always been told that a physics degree is a little more difficult conceptually, but the engineering workload is more intense. Another advantage to me when finally deciding on physics over civil engineering - among other things - is that I would have a life and go to school concurrently. It wouldn't be the case with the CivE major.

 

[Defennder]

We should not be surprised if in the next couple of years colleges & universities which offer Bachelor... degrees in Physics will insist on sets of "cognate" courses in Engineering for Physic major students. Maybe undergraduate degrees in Physics will be fitted with a few specific options as is done in some other kinds of colege programs. There could be the business option, the pure physics option, the teaching option, the engineering option...

I think to a large extent this has already been done. There are plenty of Universities which offer courses (not just classes) in Engineering Science, applied physics etc. I tend to agree with the OP that even this has yet to change the typical employer's perception of physics in industry, and that they'll much rather hire engineers than physics majors. My guess is that, since a lot of people tell me that a hell lot of theory covered in engineering degrees is completely inapplicable in industry, it'll probably remain this way since there's even more theory in physics than engineering.

 

[rbj]

i just don't get why this guy who's published more than 99% of grad students in physics doesn't consider grad school and an advanced degree. sounds to me that he should have little problem with either admission or financing (either an RA or a TA - maybe a full-tilt scholarship/fellowship).

 

[clope023]

I think to a large extent this has already been done. There are plenty of Universities which offer courses (not just classes) in Engineering Science, applied physics etc. I tend to agree with the OP that even this has yet to change the typical employer's perception of physics in industry, and that they'll much rather hire engineers than physics majors. My guess is that, since a lot of people tell me that a hell lot of theory covered in engineering degrees is completely inapplicable in industry, it'll probably remain this way since there's even more theory in physics than engineering.

true, in my school for instance apart from the BS in physics, they offer:

a BA where you take like 20 extra electives
a BA in biophysics
a BA in physics with enteprenual emphasis
a BS in physics education (for grades 6-12 from the education department though)

in the engineering department they also offer minors in robots and mechatronics so you could do that too.

 

[RufusDawes]

In the meantime I hear truckl driving pays reasonably well and there are many opportunities for overtime. You could do a stint of a year or two so that you're financial to pay for further schooling or whatever else.

 

[RufusDawes]

Just start calling engineering companies. Tell them you're a graduate and a student, explain your situation, talk directly to a company it can't hurt.

 

[colin.mcenroe]

This is why I am getting ready to change my major to Applied Physics with an emphasis on Physical Electronics. Basically I take 4 upper division EEC classes and 3 electronics classes through the physics dept, 3 quarters E&M, 1 mechanics, 1 QM, 1 solid state, 1 stat mech, and a few other classes. I figure it will be good for employability when I am done, and according to the professor I work with (who happens to be in charge of graduate admissions) it does not hurt my grad school chances at all should I choose to go. Plus I can get out of my second quarter of mechanics, which I loathe.

It is surely a great thing to be a 4th year taking 3rd year classes. Ah, the joys of being a transfer student. At least I enjoy my research (which has not led me to any high power publications, but is a great experience none-the-less).