Guilty About Not Allowing Others to Smoke?

[Huckleberry]

Smokers are just mean people Gale, don't let them bother you.

(wonders how many smokers are going to take that seriously and get mean)

No, that's about right. Smokers are meanies

Is today everybody pick on Gale day? Let's see, what else can I add? A good thing about smoking is that it will really piss off your parents.
not worth the trade in the long run I think

 

[Danger]

...bah, I've just tried writing out various explanations... but i know its not going to matter... i should've just said nothing before... UGH...

Well now, you just did explain it. The assumption was that you were jokingly pestering people about smoking, which isn't funny. Stalking Brad is.

 

[Moonbear]

Is today everybody pick on Gale day?

It's kind of looking like that. Give Gale a week and we'll make sure the smokers have just had a cigarette, and then you'll all be able to talk like rational people again.

I think all Gale is really saying is she's not feeling sorry for the smokers if nobody is rolling out the red carpet inviting them to smoke. I suspect she's also under the misimpression that if smokers have to stand in the freezing cold for a cigarette, that might give them incentive to quit. That tends to underestimate the nature of addiction. It is because they are so addicted that they will even go stand out in the freezing cold to get that nicotine fix. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they're tired of having to go stand out in the cold to smoke so they're going to quit. In my experience, people choose to quit either for health reasons or social reasons...often centered specifically around people they love. Sending them out in the cold doesn't make them quit, but telling them you love them and want them to be healthy because you'd really miss them if they died young might help them along the way. (Yeah, that goes for all you smokers here too! We really would like you to stick around and to be healthy.)

 

[Gale]

Smokers are just mean people Gale, don't let them bother you.

(wonders how many smokers are going to take that seriously and get mean)

am i allowed to laugh? or is that too insensitive of me?

Is today everybody pick on Gale day?

you know... i always wanted my own holiday... somehow its not as awesome as i was expecting...

Well now, you just did explain it. The assumption was that you were jokingly pestering people about smoking, which isn't funny. Stalking Brad is.

i meant i was going to explain the initial "uncomfortable" thing... i still stand by what i said, but not what everyone thought i said... and I'm not going to explain what i meant, cause ya...

But i guess your assumption was a bit off eh?

at any rate, Brad's such a hottie... i don't think i could've chosen a better candidate to stalk! god... that smile!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Sorry Gale.
I just know that there are a lot of people who want to practically make smoking illegal. There have been more than one city that have tried passing laws to make it illegal to smoke in their city. They keep hiking taxes on tobacco. I got the impression that you might be someone who would agree with all these because you think we should quit.
Sorry for the mix up. I don't mean to pick on you at all.

 

[Gale]

Sorry Gale.
I just know that there are a lot of people who want to practically make smoking illegal. There have been more than one city that have tried passing laws to make it illegal to smoke in their city. They keep hiking taxes on tobacco. I got the impression that you might be someone who would agree with all these because you think we should quit.
Sorry for the mix up. I don't mean to pick on you at all.

I live... thank god for chocolate...

at any rate, i understand where you're coming from. it'd suck to get hooked on something, and then suddenly have society start trying to make it illegal... i guess i do agree with anti-tobacco sentiments, but eh... its a tricky issue...

on a slighty separate note... where do the taxes collected off tobacco go to?thats probably a ton of money...
also another question, if smoking were outlawed in some places, or even if the government just keeps upping the costs... what happens to tobacco companies? i mean, not that i really sympathize for them, but it must be running them out of business eh?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I think that as long as there are people who want to smoke the tobacco companies will be ok, unless ofcourse the government goes nuts with anti-smoking legislation. Appearantly there is a new bill coming up that is atempting to make purchasing tobacco products over the internet illegal.
The numbers I found for people quitting due to price hikes are approximately 4% of adults for every 10% increase in cost. The main thrust for this is that it impacts the number of kids that smoke even more strongly.
Where the money goes? That is up to the people who receive it. They generally say that it goes to kids and education, and that may be true for the majority of it but not all of it. The campeign against a bill that would have reduced the CA tobacco tax didn't even state what the bill was for it just said that it would be taking money away from our children. I was a bit disgusted by that personally.

 

[Moonbear]

On the anti-smoking side, I'm all for preventing people from starting in the first place, though I don't know how to do that when I can't understand why anyone did start in the first place. But once you're addicted, it's too late and you can't just cut off everyone addicted all at once (can you just imagine the riots?! ).

 

[honestrosewater]

Smoking in the car was the hardest thing for me to give up. I didn't think I could drive without smoking, my car smelled so bad.
Anyways, shortly after I quit I sold it and bought a new car..a virgin to smoke! No one smokes in my car... or in my house.
I smoked for over 30 years, and it was a simple chest x-ray,looking at two blacked sacks, where pink tissue use to live, that made me want to quit.
Its a been while now, but I still get cravings everyday.

Congrats! Does thinking of the X-rays help to fight the cravings?

 

[honestrosewater]

I started in middle school. I tried it out of curiosity and thought it was horrible. But I guess I kept smoking because several things made it cool. I did lots of stupid things in middle school.

About making it illegal, what would be the argument? Make it illegal on moral grounds- because people shouldn't do things that are unhealthy. To be fair, you'd have to outlaw alcohol, driving, not following a certain diet, and about a gazillion other things. What other reason? Raising health costs? That's weak, but to be fair, you'd have to outlaw giving birth to children with medical problems and everything else on the other list. More importantly IMO, it's a matter of letting people do what they want to with their own friggin body. You can smoke without infringing on other's rights. So either outlaw smoking or be fair and let people make their own decisions. Did I miss something? Is there a better argument?

 

[BobG]

How can you make your poor mother stand out there, shivering in the freezing cold?!

Actually, that would be a hard decision. The problem is the smoke doesn't really go away after she's done smoking. The smell gets absorbed into the interior of the car. I wouldn't be hard for me to tell someone not to smoke in my car.

I can understand why you'd feel guilty, though. It would be a little harder to watch my poor mom standing out there shivering. I'd probably cave.

Worse yet, I'd probably suggest we turn the heat up full blast and drive with the windows down to air out the car afterward and then she'd just think I was crazy instead of compassionate.

 

[brewnog]

So either outlaw smoking or be fair and let people make their own decisions. Did I miss something? Is there a better argument?

Have you heard of passive smoking?

 

[honestrosewater]

Have you heard of passive smoking?

You mean second-hand smoke- from being around someone when smoking? Sure, but it's easy to prevent. No?

 

[brewnog]

You mean second-hand smoke- from being around someone when smoking? Sure, but it's easy to prevent. No?

Not always, no. I know loads of kids who have suffered 18 years of second-hand smoke as a result of their inconsiderate parents. Babies and youngsters don't have the choice of whether or not they're in a smoky environment. Until recently, the lack of smoking bans on public transport and in public buildings was more than a nuisance, and actually a health risk.

It shouldn't be up to non-smokers to protect themselves from other peoples' fumes; it should be the responsibility of smokers not to inflict their habit on others. I find many smokers to be too arrogant to stand outside a bus-shelter, or to stub out when they walk through a shopping centre, for example.

If I drink beer, the effects on my health bear no relation to someone sitting next to me. You can't compare alcohol to smoking in this way.

 

[honestrosewater]

Eh, when I said "easy", I was thinking theoretically. So practically, "easy" is the wrong word. But I still think it can be done.

Not always, no. I know loads of kids who have suffered 18 years of second-hand smoke as a result of their inconsiderate parents. Babies and youngsters don't have the choice of whether or not they're in a smoky environment. Until recently, the lack of smoking bans on public transport and in public buildings was more than a nuisance, and actually a health risk.

Okay, but this can be and is being fixed.

It shouldn't be up to non-smokers to protect themselves from other peoples' fumes; it should be the responsibility of smokers not to inflict their habit on others. I find many smokers to be too arrogant to stand outside a bus-shelter, or to stub out when they walk through a shopping centre, for example.

Well, agreed. I don't think people should inflict harm on each other.

If I drink beer, the effects on my health bear no relation to someone sitting next to me. You can't compare alcohol to smoking in this way.

I was comparing them on the grounds of the health risks to the user, not to others.
No, beer doesn't affect others in exactly the same way as smoking. But I don't see how this matters, and I don't want to get sidetracked.
Why can harmful concentrations of second-hand smoke not be avoided? I don't know what concentrations are harmful, but standing outside on my porch, the smoke seems to be diluted (or dilute?) quickly. Is being outside not enough?

 

[Moonbear]

Why can harmful concentrations of second-hand smoke not be avoided? I don't know what concentrations are harmful, but standing outside on my porch, the smoke seems to be diluted (or dilute?) quickly. Is being outside not enough?

Considering exposure to smoke has a cumulative effect, it would be hard to say if there is a "safe" concentration. I don't think smokers realize just how far their smoke travels when dissipated enough to not be a visible cloud. If I'm sitting at a traffic light, and the person in the car in front of me lights up and we both have our windows open, I can smell it pretty strongly even though there's no visible smoke. The same thing with living in apartments. When I lived in apartments and have had neighbors who smoked in apartments adjacent to mine, that smoke odor permeated into my apartment as well; it's actually a big reason why I don't like living in apartments or condos, because having the neighbors' smoke invading my "home" is just plain disgusting to me. Is it just an unpleasant odor at that distance or am I still being exposed to the harmful effects of that second-hand smoke, I really don't know. Someone who has just come inside from smoking a cigarette still has a strong enough odor on their clothing to be irritating, not just unpleasant, but to actually feel like my nasal passages are burning and sometimes to even make me cough...along the lines of when the custodian uses the strong cleaning supplies in the restroom that make my eyes water too, or when someone is practically bathed in perfume (I wish I wasn't exposed to those chemicals either).

I honestly have no idea if that's just an irritating smokey odor at that point or if there is still something harmful to my lungs in whatever is still emanating from the smoker's clothing to cause the odor. I think that would be good to know when determining what is and isn't an acceptable location for smoking or distance to keep from nonsmokers if you're going to light up a cigarette.

What really bothers me is watching people at the hospital coming out the door with their newborn baby, and as they are strapping it into the carseat, they're already lighting up a cigarette.

 

[brewnog]

I don't know what concentrations are harmful, but standing outside on my porch, the smoke seems to be diluted (or dilute?) quickly. Is being outside not enough?

Well yes, as far as I'm concerned I'm happy for smokers to stand outside in the fresh air, where the smoke is dissipated. As long as they're only inflicting the damage on themselves, I really don't mind people smoking (although I strongly support my friends who are trying to give up). It's just the inconsiderate ones which get on my goat, I suppose I'd wrongly put you in this category, sorry.

It is annoying, however, to walk out of a public building to be bathed in the smoke from 20 people standing right by the entrance, but I see this as more of an annoyance (in the same category as dog-owners who don't pick up turds, and loud drunkards) than a health risk; I'm sure I get more of a carcinogen dose from a few barbeques than I do from walking out of a building.

 

[Zantra]

First I want to say that I'm a smoker- have been for a long enough time. Also, I agree that no one under 18 should be smoking period. However when a person is 18 they have a right to smoke. Is is bad for you? No argument there. Should you expose non smokers to your bad habit? No. With that said however, it's tiring to have people attempt to force their views upon you. I know a lot of people drink, but if I came around the bar every day preaching about the evils of alcohol, I wouldn't be too popular. People who smoke know it's bad for them- we're all in agreement on the effects of smoking. We all know it's bad for you. With that said, if someone still chooses to smoke, nothing you say will change their viewpoint. You aren't imparting any newfound wisdom upon them. Your conversation won't lead to an ephinany whereupon they suddenly realize they've made a huge mistake and throw away their lighter. I know a lot of times it's a loved one and people have best interests at heart. However you can't help the person until they want to help themselves. I smoke outside because I'm not allowed to smoke in the house. granted I'm in california, but growing up in the midwest I'm very familiar with shivering in -0 weather to take a few hits. We are willing to suffer.

That being said, I make my own mother smoke outside. The only exception I ever made was for my grandmother. You have every right to not have them smoke in your car. If they really need a smoke, I'd be willing to stop somewhere. People who've never smoked perhaps don't realize the degree that the physical cravings can effect a regular smoker. I can not so lightly, liken the cravings to PMS. They are strong. And unless you've ever smoked, you wouldn't understand this. So if someone NEEDS to smoke, no you don't have to comprimise your environment, but acceptance (especially of older people you KNOW will never quit) is recommended. I actually find it amusing that there is more and more effort going into making it uncomfortable for people to smoke. This is good for new smokers- it may work. But long time smokers- well for some I'm not sure anything short of death would work.

 

[honestrosewater]

A quick search turns up studies on SHS from living with a smoker. But I will keep checking.
I understand your concerns and it helps to hear them- I wouldn't think of some of these situations. I found an article that says smoke gets circulated around some apartments by ventilation systems with inadequate filtration. Is this what you meant? Or was it coming in from outdoors?

 

[Zantra]

bah, i have a lot of sympathy for smokers, i know so many, i understand that its difficult to quit, and i am very supportive. I'm speaking very generally. smoking just shouldn't be a comfortable thing to do. and its good that it isn't. if we luxury accomodations for smokers, that would be bad. i mean uncomfortable quite literally... as in simply not comfortable.

Abbey, I just wanted to point out to you that smoking isn't affected by comfort. Cigarettes don't taste all that great to even the most hardened smokers. And making them uncomfortable or not wouldn't affect the majority of smokers. It's more like "we're going to smoke either way, but if you're willing to give a break, we won't mind". It might persuade some casual smokers to quit, but the only way to stop altogether would be to basically kill the tobbaco industry.

 

[arildno]

Cigarettes don't taste all that great to even the most hardened smokers.

Oh, really?
I've smoked 20+ a day for approx 15 years; the wake-up cigarette is still great..

 

[Zantra]

On the anti-smoking side, I'm all for preventing people from starting in the first place, though I don't know how to do that when I can't understand why anyone did start in the first place. But once you're addicted, it's too late and you can't just cut off everyone addicted all at once (can you just imagine the riots?! ).

As far as trying it- you are seriously telling me you've never felt peer pressure in your entire life? Everyone has about something or another. That's how a lot of people got started. Social acceptance. However getting hooked is another issue.

 

[Zantra]

Oh, really?
I've smoked 20+ a day for approx 15 years; the wake-up cigarette is still great..

feels great, but how's the taste? bit acidic? I think it's totally pavlovian.. we associate the feeling with the taste- like beer

 

[Moonbear]

I actually find it amusing that there is more and more effort going into making it uncomfortable for people to smoke. This is good for new smokers- it may work. But long time smokers- well for some I'm not sure anything short of death would work.

I think it does more to prevent people from starting to smoke. Trying a cigarette doesn't seem so appealing if you see that those who have the habit are standing outside, alone, in the bitter cold, shivering while being pelted by rain. What, as a nonsmoker who really doesn't fully understand the motivation to try smoking, seems like it attracts people to try cigarettes (and then get hooked) was the social acceptance...it was the "cool" thing to do when everyone at the party was sitting around smoking while having a good time.

As for those who already are addicted, the cravings and the feeling of needing to continue doing it despite the adverse effects on health, comfort and social status are part of what define addiction, in addition to the physical dependence where you feel ill if you stop suddenly. Once someone is addicted, we could tell them we're going to make them move to Siberia and stand outside without a jacket to smoke and they'd still keep smoking. Discomfort, pain, even threat of death are no longer as important as getting that nicotine hit.

I wonder, how many people really would start smoking at or over 18 if we effectively prevented children from starting up smoking?

 

[Moonbear]

A quick search turns up studies on SHS from living with a smoker. But I will keep checking.
I understand your concerns and it helps to hear them- I wouldn't think of some of these situations. I found an article that says smoke gets circulated around some apartments by ventilation systems with inadequate filtration. Is this what you meant? Or was it coming in from outdoors?

These were apartments with independent ventillation systems (each unit had its own furnace and air conditioning units). Some comes from outdoors, but that I was less concerned with because I just closed the window. I mean it seeps through any small crevices between walls and floors, under doors, through common hallways. You can't seal up a building and make it airtight. It was less of a problem in apartments that had private entrances into a courtyard (until the smokers sat on the patio and the odor came through closed doors that weren't airtight), but in buildings where the doors all enter a common hallway or stairwell, that's where more came wafting in (I didn't stay in those apartments long, but the "garden" apartments with private entrances are more expensive to rent, so it's not always a choice someone has). In a large enough complex, I'm sure it could be addressed by setting aside nonsmoking buildings, but I've never seen a place where this is done, and would that be considered discrimination if smokers and nonsmokers were sequestered to different buildings? What if a smoker came along and only apartments in the nonsmoking building were available? Could they be denied rental because they are a smoker? I know I actively chose not to rent a number of apartments because I walked in and could tell the previous renter(s) were smokers, so chose not to live there. It's not an easy issue to address. On party winds up uncomfortable for the sake of the other, pretty much no matter how you address it.

 

[Moonbear]

As far as trying it- you are seriously telling me you've never felt peer pressure in your entire life? Everyone has about something or another. That's how a lot of people got started. Social acceptance. However getting hooked is another issue.

Honestly, no. Nothing I can think of. Maybe I just hung out with the "right" crowd? If anything, as teens, we pressured each other to get better grades. Seriously, we had a class where a group of us all got at or near 100% on every test (yeah, we though the teacher was a pushover, but who's going to complain about that?), plus there was always an extra credit question, so we'd have friendly competitions (never nasty, it always stayed fun) to see who got the highest score over 100%! None of us smoke or drank, so there was no pressure to do it. Sure, there were kids who did both, but we looked at them as the social outcasts (sorry guys, that's really how we viewed them, whether it was fair or not). They had their group of friends and we had our group of friends and there were a handful of people who were part of both groups and were welcome to join anyone. There were also kids who were into the designer jeans or just had to have a gucchi purse, or a certain brand of shoes, but I never felt I had to do any of that to be friends with them.

When I started attending college parties, there were always groups of drinkers and nondrinkers, smokers and nonsmokers, people who experimented with other substances and those who didn't. Someone might come up and ask if you were interested in a drink or a cigarette, but never pressured anyone who simply said, "no thanks." I had plenty of opportunity to taste alcoholic drinks at home, and already knew there were some drinks I really did like, but even so, made the choice to not drink at college parties. I could have just as much fun as those who were drinking without it and didn't feel hungover the next morning or have to worry about who might try taking advantage of me if I got drunk. Nobody kicked me out for not drinking or shoved drinks into my hand or down my throat if I didn't want them.

Who knows, maybe I've just always been self-confident enough to be oblivious to any peer pressure (you can read that as "stubborn" if you'd like). *shrug*

 

[Zantra]

Honestly, no. Nothing I can think of. Maybe I just hung out with the "right" crowd? If anything, as teens, we pressured each other to get better grades. Seriously, we had a class where a group of us all got at or near 100% on every test (yeah, we though the teacher was a pushover, but who's going to complain about that?), plus there was always an extra credit question, so we'd have friendly competitions (never nasty, it always stayed fun) to see who got the highest score over 100%! None of us smoke or drank, so there was no pressure to do it. Sure, there were kids who did both, but we looked at them as the social outcasts (sorry guys, that's really how we viewed them, whether it was fair or not). They had their group of friends and we had our group of friends and there were a handful of people who were part of both groups and were welcome to join anyone. There were also kids who were into the designer jeans or just had to have a gucchi purse, or a certain brand of shoes, but I never felt I had to do any of that to be friends with them.

When I started attending college parties, there were always groups of drinkers and nondrinkers, smokers and nonsmokers, people who experimented with other substances and those who didn't. Someone might come up and ask if you were interested in a drink or a cigarette, but never pressured anyone who simply said, "no thanks." I had plenty of opportunity to taste alcoholic drinks at home, and already knew there were some drinks I really did like, but even so, made the choice to not drink at college parties. I could have just as much fun as those who were drinking without it and didn't feel hungover the next morning or have to worry about who might try taking advantage of me if I got drunk. Nobody kicked me out for not drinking or shoved drinks into my hand or down my throat if I didn't want them.

Who knows, maybe I've just always been self-confident enough to be oblivious to any peer pressure (you can read that as "stubborn" if you'd like). *shrug*

Well moony I'm sure you're a testament to internal fortitude, and that is something to be proud of. However I wouldn't be so sure you've never been exposed to peer pressure. Ever had your friends say to you "I'd stay away from that person, he/she is not cool"? Actually I can prove you've had peer pressure applied to you. If your friends ever encouraged you to do ANYTHING weather positive or negative, it would be considered peer pressure. So if you can tell me that your friends never encouraged any specific behavior from you-either positive or negative, never exhibited normal group behavior characteristics then I would be singularly astounded, impressed, and very curious how the group dynamics of your friendships worked.

Anyhow, my long winded point is just because you don't give into peer pressure, doesn't mean you don't experience it. How you deal with it is up to the individual. Just because your friend jumps off a bridge doesn't mean you have to either. But it is a proven cause of negative social behaviors, you know?

 

[Gale]

well, let's say all my comments were for the casual, occasional, just starting out smoker then. because i know for a fact that the discomfort of being forced outside is often enough to stop those people from smoking for extended periods of time. I'm 17 years old, i think i have one friend who really doesn't smoke. her and i are definately the only ones i know. some of my friends smoke quite a lot, some of them not so much. actually, i guess some people might even say i smoke, but i don't really... though admittedly, i have. even my younger brother and his friends smoke, (14-16 yr olds) it sucks. Many of my friends have babies, and they still smoke. But really, for most all of them, if its too big of hassle, they just won't smoke.

Unfortunately, it still "cool" to smoke. there's a certain level of rebellion attatched, independence from parents, risk taking. when i was in middle school, there was a lot of pressure to start smoking, that's when i did. When i got older, that pressure nearly vanishes. nearly...

i know when i worked, i was sometimes jealous of the smokers. They got their own room to smoke in, and it was like a club when everyone would go outside together. Its still that way. i hear my sisters friends talk about it, or my brother. If you don't smoke, you're left out. I guess its easier to deal with when its freezing outside, and all the smokers come back numb... but they're still laughing and having a good time, and you feel left out. that's a very passive sort of peer pressure.

my parents smoke as well. two of my siblings of developed asthma over the years. I'm certain we've all suffered greatly from second hand smoke. i understand that we can't change their minds about smoking, they've tried to quit, but they keep giving up. i know it doesn't really help to pester them, because they get more stressed the more i talk, and so they smoke more. if i ever try to talk to them about it anymore, i usually just offer some advice... like, "maybe you should just try not smoking in the car..." because my mum always smokes in the car, and i don't care if she opens a window, it gags me. And half the time its cold outside, and i freeze while she puffs away. Its so inconsiderate really, but i know she needs a smoke. but ya...

umm... really, i think we should do whatever we can to stop younger smokers. and the thing is, young smokers are all in middle school and the early years of high school. after that, its not so bad, because the real smokers don't want to share any more, and so the awkward kids who're susceptible to the pressure aren't exposed to pressure. kids start smoking when they're really young now though... as for the other smokers... i don't think we should make the habit any easier for them. I'm glad most public buildings don't allow it. but whatever... its their life, i just want the habit to have as little effect on me as possible..


ps: Zantra, you spelled my name wrong... no "e"

 

[Zantra]

ps: Zantra, you spelled my name wrong... no "e"

doh! one of these days I'll get it right...

By now young kids should be getting the message about smoking. But sometimes kids do stupid things, and there are much worse things they could be doing unfortunately. I hate to say it but 9/10 times it's the fault of the parent. You can't NOT know if your child is smoking, unless they are doing it rarely and are very meticulous at covering it up.. there are exceptions but not every parent can be that oblivious.. which means many parents let their children smoke, likely because they are hoping that if they let it slide, they won't have to worry about drugs.. which is a mistake. but I'm rambling..

 

[Gale]

doh! one of these days I'll get it right...

By now young kids should be getting the message about smoking. But sometimes kids do stupid things, and there are much worse things they could be doing unfortunately. I hate to say it but 9/10 times it's the fault of the parent. You can't NOT know if your child is smoking, unless they are doing it rarely and are very meticulous at covering it up.. there are exceptions but not every parent can be that oblivous.. which means many parents let their children smoke, likely because they are hoping that if they let it slide, they won't have to worry about drugs.. which is a mistake. but I'm rambling..

ya... well its hard name... i mean, 4 letters long with a double connsonant... its a toughie... we've only chatted for, what, 2 years?


at any rate, how to propose a parent deals with a child smoking? i know my brother and his friends smoke. i'd be interested in learning how to make them just stop. all the boys look up to me, I'm the cool older sister. (seriously, its so cute... they think I'm COOL! "i wish she was my older sister" all his friends say that, rock on!) but i can't really do much to get them to quit except to casually mention that its bad for them, and not very cool. then they're like, "oh ya, I'm trying to quit..." ya... sure... i could be authoritive, but what'd that do?

 

[Moonbear]

You can't NOT know if your child is smoking, unless they are doing it rarely and are very meticulous at covering it up..

I don't know how quickly they know. If a kid in a nonsmoking home starts smoking, yeah, the parents are going to know either they are smoking or their friends are smoking, because you just have to smell it on them. But if the kid is living in the home of a smoker, if they stay out of view, I don't know how the parents would notice since the smoke smell itself won't be a tip off. The problem probably is more that there are enough parents who don't care that it becomes accessible...all you need is one parent who doesn't give the kid a hard time when a pack goes missing from the carton every now and then for that kid to supply the cigarettes to the others.

As for the earlier comments on peer pressure, I really wasn't trying to suggest I'm some special person with amazing internal fortitude, I'm not. I just didn't associate with friends who would try to push me to do things I didn't want to do. Perhaps there was positive peer pressure, but if you're doing something good for yourself, it's not like you'd have a reason to resist the suggestion either, so how much pressure is really necessary?

I was confused that you suggested it was a necessary part of the social dynamic, like you can't have friends who don't push you to do things you don't want to do? Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say. If someone started pushing me to do something I didn't want to do, then I'd hardly consider them a friend. I don't tolerate people who are pushy or think you need to do something to conform in order to associate with them. If someone pulls that nonsense, I tell them to get lost in no uncertain terms. Why would you call someone a friend who asks you to put your health at risk to be their friend? I don't even like pushy salespeople, so why would I want a pushy friend?

Here's a different example. I have a lot of friends who are really into sports...like totally nuts when it comes to sports. They'll get together to go to a game, and they always invite me along. I can't think of a more boring thing to do with my day than sit around watching sports...they can't quite understand why I find it boring and I can't quite understand what excites them about it, but okay, that's just our differences. So, I decline their invitations. It's that simple. They go off and do what they enjoy doing with those who enjoy it. No need for me to go along and be grumpy about it. And when they do something I do enjoy, such as seeing a movie I want to see, then I go along. Maybe someone else decides not to join us if they've seen the movie already or it's something they really won't enjoy (one friend will NOT see any sort of horror movies). We don't all have to do everything together as a giant group to be friends...we know we have different interests and different personalities and that is why we enjoy each others' company and why nobody forces anyone to do something they don't enjoy. I don't want to hang out with people who just go along with everything or who are all just like me, that's boring.

 

[Huckleberry]

I think it does more to prevent people from starting to smoke. Trying a cigarette doesn't seem so appealing if you see that those who have the habit are standing outside, alone, in the bitter cold, shivering while being pelted by rain. What, as a nonsmoker who really doesn't fully understand the motivation to try smoking, seems like it attracts people to try cigarettes (and then get hooked) was the social acceptance...it was the "cool" thing to do when everyone at the party was sitting around smoking while having a good time.

As for those who already are addicted, the cravings and the feeling of needing to continue doing it despite the adverse effects on health, comfort and social status are part of what define addiction, in addition to the physical dependence where you feel ill if you stop suddenly. Once someone is addicted, we could tell them we're going to make them move to Siberia and stand outside without a jacket to smoke and they'd still keep smoking. Discomfort, pain, even threat of death are no longer as important as getting that nicotine hit.

I wonder, how many people really would start smoking at or over 18 if we effectively prevented children from starting up smoking?

I didn't start smoking until I was about 24 or 25. I started on clove cigarettes because I enjoyed the smell and the flavor and the high. That lasted about a year and after that I was smoking 4 or 5 a day. Then I switched to normal cigarettes because they were cheaper. The last two years I have been smoking about half a pack a day, sometimes less. The cravings are strong, but they are controllable for me. I haven't gotten the shakes, but I do get a little antsy. The first 3 days are the hardest. Last year I quit for a month, but I started again when I became upset with some problems I was having. For that month I did notice some physical effects, enough for me to go see a doctor. After I told him I was quitting smoking he just shook his head as if it all made sense. Stomach cramps and constapation where the worst symptoms. They were nothing compared to the mental withdrawal. Since cigarettes are legal the addiction is very difficult to overcome. To be honest, if the government decided to make smoking illegal entirely I personally would be relieved, however, I would consider it an infringement on my rights as a citizen. It would be an infringement I could live with.

You don't like standing out in the cold and wind and rain by yourself? I was reclusive before I started smoking and enjoy some peace of mind in harsh conditions all alone. I love thunderstorms and blizzards and hurricanes and even just rain. I never considered that a downside to smoking.

 

[Gabrielle]

I don't think smokers realize just how far their smoke travels when dissipated enough to not be a visible cloud. If I'm sitting at a traffic light, and the person in the car in front of me lights up and we both have our windows open, I can smell it pretty strongly even though there's no visible smoke.

Someone who has just come inside from smoking a cigarette still has a strong enough odor on their clothing to be irritating, not just unpleasant..."

I'm glad you mentioned how much smoke stinks because it reminds me of a rather embarrassing incident at work. Last winter, I walked into the office I shared with another co-worker. As I walked into the room, I noticed a very foul odor right away. I asked, "What's that awful smell?" My co-worker (a woman) said hesitantly, "I don't know. My nose is a little stuffed up so I can't really smell much of anything." It was very noticeable and a few minutes later she said, "I think I found out what that smell is." She was sniffing the sleeve of her sweater as she was telling me. "It's my mohair sweater." She had gotten it wet a number of times but it was really the cigarette smoke that brought out the smell not because it was wet. She wore it kind of like a coat so I guess she didn't wash it very often. She's a very heavy smoker. I was so embarrassed when she told me because I didn't want to offend her. I had no idea where the source of the odor was coming from.

What really bothers me is watching people at the hospital coming out the door with their newborn baby, and as they are strapping it into the carseat, they're already lighting up a cigarette.

I agree. They're really getting their precious ones off to a good start, aren't they? It's also dangerous because it's easy for ashes to fall off the end of your cigarette while you're holding a baby. I think it's very unwise to smoke while holding a baby. Perhaps the majority of smokers refrain from behavior such as this.

 

[loseyourname]

Considering the allergies and asthma I suffer from, I've never felt guilty about ensuring that no one smokes around me. Generally, I would imagine they feel guilty when I start going into a wheezing fit if they do smoke around me.

 

[Moonbear]

I think it's very unwise to smoke while holding a baby. Perhaps the majority of smokers refrain from behavior such as this.

I think the smokers who care about their babies do refrain from this. Unfortunately, our university hospital handles most of the deliveries to mothers who didn't plan to become mothers and don't really want to be mothers, but nonetheless got pregnant and had the babies. Those babies are going to have a rough life even without the cigarette exposure.