Guitarists - Discuss Broom with 6 Strings

[Zeteg]

Ooh ooh! I play guitar but I suck =\

 

[Gale]

I work with someone who had that tough decision to make when he was doing a post-doc. His band was doing very well playing in NYC clubs, and he had a really tough decision whether to stay in science or stay in music. He chose science (the fool!), but puts on a great performance at scientific meetings! He and a few others have a recurring act at the social for one of our meetings. They parody lyrics with themes relevant to the scientists in the audience, and do a very good job of it. He has his own original songs too, but doesn't perform those for audiences too often. It turns out that having good stage presence is also a great skill for a scientific career.

i'd be pleanty happy doing that the rest of my life. And then i wouldn't have to think up new subjects for my lyrics all the time... i'd just write whatever i'd happen to be working on at the time. Thats how i write my music now... but songs about my evenings at taco bell aren't really too interesting.. funny.. but not exactly captivating...

anyways, i can't read tab... anyone have recomendations on how i ought learn? I've looked at stuff on the internet... but i dunno... how necessary is it that i learn tab? i play by ear excellently, that's how I've got by so far, that and just watching others play, plus i read piano music and transpose it to my guitar. Its worked for me. But would tab help me improve my abilities??

 

[hitssquad]

What is really important to learn to be a guitarist

anyways, i can't read tab... anyone have recomendations on how i ought learn? I've looked at stuff on the internet... but i dunno... how necessary is it that i learn tab?

Almost the only reason for the existence of tab is to be able to communicate to the players of multi-srting instruments which strings to play the notes on. If you can figure out on your own which strings to use, it isn't necessary at all.

would tab help me improve my abilities??

If you can already play sheet music on a guitar (an insanely difficult feat due to the six strings) you probably wouldn't gain anything by "learning" tab. Tab is much easier than reading music. Most guitarists use tab as a cheat sheet since they can't read music at all. A typical non-music-reading guitarist who wants to play piano music on his guitar would probably transcribe the piano music one note at a time to guitar tablature and then play the tablature after listening to a professional recording of the same music (to get the rythms correct).

Where tab can really help, though, is a situation where you are trying to copy another guitarist note-for-note off of a record and the playing is too complicated or fast to figure out. Most professional tablature transcriptionists use special playback machines to allow them to dissect high-speed guitar solos. Guitar transcriptionist Steve Vai says he used to use a half-speed tape player. I have done a fair amount of guitar transcribing myself and I prefer to be able to play back and repeat tiny snippets of music stopped immediately to silence so the music snippet has a chance to echo in my head without being washed out of my working memory by music preceding or following the target music snippet.

Anyway, the most important thing for any musician to learn is to play by ear (which you said you are already doing). Your own collection of music recordings is your best friend when it comes to learning how to become a great player. I don't know of any famous modern musicians who did not learn to play by copying the riffs and licks on their favorite records.

 

[jimmy p]

You have a choice as a bassist, you can be a simple little thing that just plays in the background, or you could try to take your 4 strings and do something far too few people do in music and actually be a creative element in a band (if you're in a band). I suggest you listen to a lot of Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Cream and Black Sabbath (NIB solo especially) for some inspiration on how to make those 4 strings into something more than just backup for guitar.

That is EXACTLY what I want to do. I want to be just as much in the forefront as the other guitarists. Life Duff McKagan or Steve Harris.

 

[Andy]

Just call me Slash!

 

[Muon12]

If it has strings, I'll play it.

 

[Muon12]

I haven't learned how to play the banjola yet, though. Gotta get started with that one...

 

[wasteofo2]

That is EXACTLY what I want to do. I want to be just as much in the forefront as the other guitarists. Life Duff McKagan or Steve Harris.

Dude, Duff? I've never once heard a GNR track where I can recall the bass standing out at all, they're one of those bands that I feel just had bass becasue of the tradition. Are there any GNR songs that maybe I don't know about or haven't given a good listen to where Duff does anything special?

 

[jimmy p]

Dude, Duff? I've never once heard a GNR track where I can recall the bass standing out at all, they're one of those bands that I feel just had bass becasue of the tradition. Are there any GNR songs that maybe I don't know about or haven't given a good listen to where Duff does anything special?

maybe it just stands out for me, I usually listen to basslines of songs over the rest of the song, and the GNR basslines seem to stand out. Maybe a song like "Civil War" would be a good one to listen to.


OOH! got my new bass amp the other day. A lot bigger than I thought. But then, I think it is 130W so it is excused, though I don't know where I'm going to stick it in my room. I'm so pleased!

 

[Artman]

I suggest you listen to a lot of Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Cream and Black Sabbath (NIB solo especially) for some inspiration on how to make those 4 strings into something more than just backup for guitar.

These are good suggestions. They are noticeable, yet they don't overpower the song. I would also suggest Rush and Sting or The Police.

 

[Muon12]

If you're looking for some bass inspiration, don't forget Flea of The Red Hot Chili Peppers and Les Claypool of Primus. Both of these guys have at one point or another, redefined the bass guitar as a very capable and sometimes powerful lead instrument. Plus, some Jazz/slap bass never hurts either. You can learn a lot about balancing rhythm and tone while you play if you listen to that style. Play on...

 

[Artman]

I got some new guitar gear.

A few months ago, I got a Squier M-70 guitar. This is not your normal Squier. It has a solid mahogony body, a set neck, bound body and neck, sealed tuners, tunamatic bridge, and Duncan Design humbuckers. Great sounding guitar for very little money.

I got a really good deal on a new Behringer AC112 amp. It's a hybrid with a tube in the preamp, 99 preset, adjustable, digital effects and SS power amp. 60 watts with a 12" Jenson speaker. It sounds really sweet. Again, great sound for very little money.

I've started playing in public about 20 times a year, so I needed some decent equipment (I used to have a Gorilla amp )

 

[Janitor]

The good 'uns know when and how to bend those strings. I don't even try. I am lucky if I can get my fingers to the right fret in time.

I am enjoying a CD called 'Very Early Joan' [Baez] that I was given for the holidays. As far as I know, she is doing all the guitar playing on those taped live performances, and it sounds great. She would have been something like 20 years old at the time, I figure. Um, that's what they call 'talent.' On two of the songs she is doing a parody of some rock 'n roll-er type who must have been getting songs on the charts at the time, and those songs are especially fun to listen to. I would say it was maybe Lou Christie or Frankie Valli that she was doing.

 

[Janitor]

... Great sounding guitar for very little money...

Would you mind if I asked you to quantify that for us?

 

[Astronuc]

Had a bass guitar (low quality Gibson ripoff) - needed new pickups. A roomate had Rickenbacher that I played occasionally.

Didn't perform except on rare occasions, but not pro.

Favorite bass tune is the solo by Jon Camp of Rennaisance on there Live from Carnegie Hall. The track is Ashes Are Burning. Camp plays a Rickenbacher with a pick, and strums and picks the base like some people play a guitar. He does some really smooth chords. To play like Camp really requires greater than normal strength and endurance - the forearms can get really stiff (and can burn) for the novice.

I heard Ashes Are Burning during a live performance in Houston at the Houston Symphony, which was good, but not as good as the performance at Carnegie.

Also, if you want to hear an incredible voice, Annie Haslam sang lead for Rennaisance. Annie has a 5 octave range.

Does anyone have an opinion on or preference for basses by Gibson, Rickenbacher, Fender, or whatever?

 

[Gokul43201]

Speaking of bassists...

I think John Entwistle (The Who), Geddy Lee (Rush), and Jack Bruce (Cream) were great bassists. Haven't heard many bassists recenty that I liked very much, except perhaps for the crazy guy that plays bass for the Red Hot Chilli Peppers.

But I don't play guitar...so it's back to you guys.

 

[DB]

I'm sorry I just saw this thread! I'm a huge guitarist misogynisticfeminist, its my passion and has been for a while. Stevie Ray Vaughan is my god, but my heart lies with funk. I'm in a band called Joyride and we're actually doing pretty good. Check this out: at a bar mitzvah we played and a guy in the record business from new york says he wants us to send him a tape! We freaked. Anyway, rock on to all the musician's out here.

 

[Artman]

Would you mind if I asked you to quantify that for us?

I got the guitar for $199.00, and that included shipping. The MSRP on that model was $690.00. It was modeled on the DeArmond M-70, (Fender bought DeArmond and closed them down after this series.) The main difference between the Squier and the DeArmond was the pickups. The Duncan Design pickups are made in Korea from Duncan specs. The reason they sold so cheap was that players were pissed at Fender for closing DeArmond and putting the Squier name on the guitar. As for me, I couldn't care less whose name is on it. It is a great musical instrument.

I got a great deal on the amp too. $146.00 for a 60 watt tube hybrid with digital effects and a 12" Jensen speaker! Excellent sounding professional quality amp.

 

[hypnagogue]

I've started playing in public about 20 times a year, so I needed some decent equipment (I used to have a Gorilla amp )

That sounds awesome, it must be really gratifying to play in front of an audience. What kind of stuff do you play?

 

[Artman]

That sounds awesome, it must be really gratifying to play in front of an audience. What kind of stuff do you play?

I play in a church group. It doesn't sound like much, but the audience can vary between 20 or 30 people on a Sunday night to 200 or more on a regular Sunday service. For my part I play blues based lead and electric rythym (most of the others in the group play amplified acoustics).

It is gratifying to play for people. When I first took up guitar, I played in a group with my brother. We were asked to play at various locations,for parties and small gatherings. I really wasn't much good, so I got nervous, which made me worse. I quit playing for about 10 years, only dragging out the guitar occasionally.

When this group started, I decided that I wasn't going to be nervous. I wasn't going to even think about what I was doing, just play. I'm actually getting pretty good this time around.

I'm working on getting more proficient at stepping in and out of rythym into lead. It's tricky, but that's what keeps it fun.

 

[hypnagogue]

It is gratifying to play for people. When I first took up guitar, I played in a group with my brother. We were asked to play at various locations,for parties and small gatherings. I really wasn't much good, so I got nervous, which made me worse. I quit playing for about 10 years, only dragging out the guitar occasionally.

Sounds a bit like me. At least the "not very good, so only drag the guitar out on occasions" part. I started off learning from a CD tutorial, which was actually pretty good, and picked it up some basics fairly quickly. After exhausting the material on the CD, I've mostly just looked up tabs for various songs on the odd occasion, with mixed results. I do have an instructional book that I should really get around to using someday. Never played for an audience though. It'd be really nice, if I ever got up to snuff.

By the way, blues for a church group sounds interesting. Not what I'd expect (though honestly, the only thing I'd expect with a guitar is folksie acoustic; shows what I know about churches).

 

[Artman]

By the way, blues for a church group sounds interesting. Not what I'd expect (though honestly, the only thing I'd expect with a guitar is folksie acoustic; shows what I know about churches).

I use blues based and Pentatonic scales to play improvised leads over the songs. Most of the three chord stuff works pretty good.

Our group leader tends that way (folksie acoustic), Occassionally he will play a strat and plug it into a modeller that he can set for acoustic to get rid of his electric sound!

Personally I would love to get some Santana or Pink Floyd like sounds in our mix. So I set my amp on the edge of overdriving and then when we get playing I turn up the guitar and get a little grit to the sound.

Being in a group there is a lot of give and take to get everyone to fit in. Even though it isn't always my style, it is still a lot of fun.

 

[hypnagogue]

I use blues based and Pentatonic scales to play improvised leads over the songs. Most of the three chord stuff works pretty good.

If you want to stir up some controversy, try using a tritone scale.

Personally I would love to get some Santana or Pink Floyd like sounds in our mix. So I set my amp on the edge of overdriving and then when we get playing I turn up the guitar and get a little grit to the sound.

Pink Floyd sounds about right for a religious musical session in earnest. If the church has an organ, Cirrus Minor would be a pretty intense song to cover. And if you can find a keyboardist/pianist and a woman who can sing with soul, The Great Gig in the Sky seems all too appropriate.

 

[Artman]

If you want to stir up some controversy, try using a tritone scale.

I'm likin' this.

Pink Floyd sounds about right for a religious musical session in earnest. If the church has an organ, Cirrus Minor would be a pretty intense song to cover. And if you can find a keyboardist/pianist and a woman who can sing with soul, The Great Gig in the Sky seems all too appropriate.

My wife can do soul. Yeah, those would be cool.

 

[Janitor]

I got the guitar for $199.00, and that included shipping...

Sounds like a great deal for sure.

To paraphrase the late Roger Miller, Twenty hours of pushing broom buys a guitar and an eight by twelve four-bit room...

 

[Artman]

Had a bass guitar (low quality Gibson ripoff) - needed new pickups. A roomate had Rickenbacher that I played occasionally.

Didn't perform except on rare occasions, but not pro.

Favorite bass tune is the solo by Jon Camp of Rennaisance on there Live from Carnegie Hall. The track is Ashes Are Burning. Camp plays a Rickenbacher with a pick, and strums and picks the base like some people play a guitar. He does some really smooth chords. To play like Camp really requires greater than normal strength and endurance - the forearms can get really stiff (and can burn) for the novice.

I heard Ashes Are Burning during a live performance in Houston at the Houston Symphony, which was good, but not as good as the performance at Carnegie.

Also, if you want to hear an incredible voice, Annie Haslam sang lead for Rennaisance. Annie has a 5 octave range.

Does anyone have an opinion on or preference for basses by Gibson, Rickenbacher, Fender, or whatever?

I heard that Rickenbachers were hard to play, but have a good sound (I think Paul McCartney used one with the Beatles). A friend of mine has an Ibanez Signature model that seems real nice and a Peavey five string that I like. I have a cheapy bass that I bought to add bass to my recordings. It's a Blake. I've never heard of them before or since. It's not too bad though, it does have EMG pickups. The strings are currently set a little high for my taste. I just bought a Fender Rumble 15 amp to act as a guitar practice amp and a bass amp (you can play a guitar through a bass amp, but not the other way around). Not bad, nice clean tone. Slight natural tube-like tone that gives a little reverb sound (although it does not have reverb). The guitar sounds great through it with a rock distortion pedal, very punchy.

Rennaisance is a good group. I don't think they get enough air play.

 

[Astronuc]

I didn't find the Rickenbacher very difficult, but compared to mine, the strings of the Rickenbacher were more taut, which gives the R a crisp tone, especially with a pick. McCartney may have had a Rickenbacher, but I seem to remember he played piccolo base.

Regarding bass guitars - check this out! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar

Artman, do you have the CD Renaissance, Live at Carnegie Hall. If not, I recommend it, if only for the live version of Ashes Are Burning.

The original group was founded in 1969 by ex-Yardbirds members Keith Relf and Jim McCarty as a sort of progressive folk-rock band. I found out about Renaissance in the mid 70's, after the lineup formed around the core of bassist Jon Camp, keyboard player John Tout, drummer Terry Sullivan, and singer Annie Haslam. I got hooked when I first heard Prologue and Annie Haslam's voice - Incredible!

Unfortunately, Renaissance did not get a broad following (i.e. they are not mainstream pop) and subsequent albums did poorly.

The band's next two albums, Novella and A Song for All Seasons, failed to find new listeners, and as the 1970s closed out, the group was running headlong into the punk and new wave booms that made them seem increasingly anachronistic and doomed to cult status.

Their '80s albums were released with less than global or even national fanfare, and the group split up in the early '80s amid reported personality conflicts between members. During 1995, however, both Haslam and Dunford made attempts to revive the Renaissance name in different incarnations, and Jane Relf and the other surviving members of the original band were reportedly planning to launch their own Renaissance revival which, if nothing else, may keep the courts and some trademark attorneys busy for a little while.

Well I am out of the mainstream anyway

 

[Artman]

Unfortunately, Renaissance did not get a broad following (i.e. they are not mainstream pop) and subsequent albums did poorly.

Well I am out of the mainstream anyway

I don't currently have any Rennaisance recordings. I had one on 8 track and haven't replaced it on a playable format yet. But I remember that I liked their anachronistic sound. Talented group. I tend to like the less than mainstream stuff. Some of my favorite stuff is New Age and Celtic. Like Loreena McKennitt, Enya, even Yanni. Somewhere between that and Pink Floyd lies the sound I want.

 

[Janitor]

...I think Paul McCartney used one with the Beatles...

It is entirely possible that Macca played a Rick at some point. But in the mid-1960s it was Lennon using one. He had it during the famous Shea Stadium concert, if I recall.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Anyone ever played a Chapman stick? I'm pretty useless with those but I have enjoyed hearing some real virtuosos on the instrument.

 

[Astronuc]

Haven't played one. Tried a friends 12 along time ago. Wasn't to good, but I did have any practice.


I like Roger McGuinn and his 12-string Rickenbacker guitar - especially on Eight Miles High.

Also, Leo Kotke is great with his 12. Saw him with Renaissance one time.

Anybody heard Al Dimeola? Some of the fastest fingers around.


Artman, somewhere between (Loreena McKennitt, Enya, Yanni) and Pink Floyd sounds interesting. Have you thought about Yes or Emerson, Lake and Palmer (ELP). Yanni has some nice music, but I find his tunes (phrasing) somewhat redundant (repetitive).

 

[Artman]

Artman, somewhere between (Loreena McKennitt, Enya, Yanni) and Pink Floyd sounds interesting. Have you thought about Yes or Emerson, Lake and Palmer (ELP). Yanni has some nice music, but I find his tunes (phrasing) somewhat redundant (repetitive).

I agree about Yanni. I listen to New Age at work, and I like some of his, but they do repeat phrasing a lot.

I like ELP and Yes quite a bit. Actually ELP and Loreena McKennitt share the same sort of mystery in their lyrics. Yes lyrics are just wierd, but those guys are talented players.

 

[Bladibla]

can play a bit of acoustic, but play flute most of the time (cos I am better with it)

 

[Artman]

can play a bit of acoustic, but play flute most of the time (cos I am better with it)

Have you ever played a wooden flute?

 

[Astronuc]

If you are into New Age or similar music, I presume you know of Windham Hill and Narada. Besides the western instruments, like piano and guitar, I have also been attracted to Asian instruments, like sitar (India), er hu (China), and Koto and Shakuhachi (Japan).

sitar - http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/sitar.html

Indian classical instruments - http://makar-records.com/siteus/frameinstrument.html

er hu - http://members.shaw.ca/eip14/ , http://www.chcp.org/music/Vmusic.html

Chinese musicians in North America - http://www.melodyofchina.com/01artists/mian_01.html

Koto - http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~np5y-hruc/kt-koto.html , http://www.lindacaplan.com/koto/

Shakuhachi - International Shakuhachi Society - http://www.komuso.com/


Also here are some artists and albums you might want to look into:


Zumi-Kai Original Instrument Group, "Koto Music of Japan", Laserlight, Delta Music Inc., 1999.

Joji Hirota, "The Gate", Real World (Narada), 1999.

"Lullaby for the Moon", Hemisphere, Capitol Records, 1998. (Japanese Music for Koto and Shakuhaci)

Kazu Matsui, "Bamboo", Narada, 2002 (Shakuhachi)

Kohachiro Miyata, "Japan Shakuhachi - The Japanese Flute", Elektra Explorer Series, 1977, 1991.


More Western Oriented -

Bo Hansson, "Lord of the Rings", One Way Records/Silence Records, 1970 - really interesting music (Hansson - organ, guitar, moog and bass).

Der Spyra, "HomelisteningIsKillingClubs," Manikin Records, 2000 ( http://www.groove.nl/cd/4/49050.html )

Cusco, "Ancient Journeys," Higher Octave, 2000.

Jean-Luc Ponty, "A Taste for Passion","Cosmic Messenger", and others, Atlantic, 1979, 1978, Electric Violin

Eberhard Weber, "Silent Feet," ECM, 1977 - electric bass/jazz/new age.

Good source for music for contemporary music from Europe - http://www.groove.nl


As for guitarists, which was the OP theme, you might want to check out Jon Butcher (from Boston music scened in the 1980's). I would put him up there with Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Page, and Trower. Butcher did a really interesing piece called "Holy War" on the album "Wishes". It may be hard to find it though - he was somewhat obscure.

Finally, and interesting group from Texas from 1969 into the 1970's - Bloodrock - first album, Bloodrock. Not what one would expect from Texas.