Help! Old PC dog has to learn new Mac tricks

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In summary, this topic addresses the challenge of adapting to a new computer system, specifically switching from a PC to a Mac. It highlights the difficulties that an older individual may face in learning new technology and provides tips and tricks for making the transition smoother. It emphasizes the importance of patience and perseverance in mastering new skills.
  • #71
jedishrfu said:
In contrast, i kept a minimal desktop with working files and tended to use the command line to get things done
Yeah. Not to your degree but I am of the philosophy that over-customization of any electronic device is a ticking time bomb. Maybe a better analogy is a Jenga Tower.

Every device, from PC to phone to router to TV to Blutooth wall outlet will always need resetting or rebooting or upgrading or reimaging. And usually those customizations are lost in the process. Better not to depend on them any more than you have to.
 
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  • #72
DaveC426913 said:
I was gobsmacked that Mac users needed an aftermarket tool to tab between apps.

No. It is Command-tab on a Mac by default. I usually switch apps using Mission control: I press the side button on my mouse, and all windows in every app shrink and rearrange to fit. Then I click on the window I want, and it enlarges. (Apple's mouse does this with a gesture, but I use a wired USB one.)
 
  • #73
DaveC426913 said:
Every device, from PC to phone to router to TV to Blutooth wall outlet will always need resetting or rebooting or upgrading or reimaging. And usually those customizations are lost in the process. Better not to depend on them any more than you have to.

That's one way to go about it. I prefer to customize to suit my style. For example, by default the mouse on a Mac is configured to scroll downward when your finger moves down, akin to scrolling on a phone. But in all my pre-Mac years the mouse worked the other way and that's what I grew to be used to. There's nothing intrinsically correct about one way or the other. It's a preference. That's why it's a "System Preference".

I've upgraded my OS numerous times and it always remembers this and all my other customizations. Someday my customizations may be lost and I'll have to reset them, if I can. And when I use someone else's computer I have to adapt on the fly to how their machine is configured. BFD.
 
  • #74
DaveC426913 said:
Is it possible you're missing the questions and just reading the ranty bits in between?

There's definitely a tone that permeates this thread and others. I can almost always tell from the title alone that it's one of yours. They're harmless though and can be entertaining. So carry on.
 
  • #75
Algr said:
No. It is Command-tab on a Mac by default.

If I have, say, six apps open, I can Cmd-Tab to any one of them - but only four or five of them will actually come up. One or two of them will not.

I'm trying it right now. Cmd-tab to:
Chrome: Yes.
Slack. Nope.
Finder: Nope.
Photoshop: Yes
Word: Nope.
etc.

At this point, I have to allow for the possibility that my OS is pooched somehow. But that was the point of the visit to IT, and we know how that went.
 
  • #76
Do I understand; For the finder to "come up" means that the other programs windows get out of the way? Mission control can do that. Try Command F3.
Regular F3 does the all-windows-smaller thing.
 
  • #77
JT Smith said:
There's definitely a tone that permeates this thread and others. I can almost always tell from the title alone that it's one of yours. They're harmless though and can be entertaining. So carry on.
I'm pretty informal and a little levitous outside the hard sciences. Not sure it warrants a judgement of "I doubt it [advice] matters".


But I do reserve the right to whinge here in my rant thread.
 
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  • #78
DaveC426913 said:
But I do reserve the right to whinge here in my rant thread.
Let's whinge together! I know when I have to use Windows I find it awkward as hell. It takes forever to find anything, and it is totally different from the last Windows I had to use.
 
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  • #79
Algr said:
Do I understand; For the finder to "come up" means that the other programs windows get out of the way?
Cmd-tab shows a horizontal list of icons of all open apps. Currently I have ten apps open.

I can Cmd-tab to any app, and then release to select it. Some work, some do not.

If I start manually selecting apps, and I go through a few, then the Cmd-tab list of working apps will be different.

So it's almost as if it will only remember the last X apps I've touched, and forgets the rest like a snake eating it own tail.


Algr said:
Mission control can do that. Try Command F3.
Cmd-F3 removes everything from my desktop to off-screen. Unless I want the desktop, this is useless.

Algr said:
Regular F3 does the all-windows-smaller thing.
This shows me three of the ten apps that are currently open. The rest are not visible.

If I start manually selecting apps, and I go through a few, then F3 the selection will be different.

So again, it's almost as if it will only remember the last X apps I've touched, and forgets the rest, like a snake eating it own tail.


That being said, F3 looks pretty useful. It does not pull up all my open apps, but it does pull up my dock as well.
 
  • #80
DaveC426913 said:
I'm pretty informal and a little levitous outside the hard sciences. Not sure it warrants a judgement of "I doubt it [advice] matters".

I can see how that my have come across as a judgement. I guess it was in way. I judged that my comments would have little if any effect upon the trajectory of this thread. Will they? I doubt it.
 
  • #81
DaveC426913 said:
I can Cmd-tab to any app, and then release to select it. Some work, some do not.

Hmmm...
On a Mac you can have a program running with no windows open. So tabbing to that program won't open up a new window. You should still see the program's name in the menu bar though. If that is what is going on, you can then open up a new document from the menu bar or hit Command N. Alternately, you can double click a document from the finder, and it will switch to whatever app opened it automatically.
 
  • #82
JT Smith said:
I can see how that my have come across as a judgement. I guess it was in way. I judged that my comments would have little if any effect upon the trajectory of this thread. Will they? I doubt it.
Your suggestion of the F3 and a few other things was very helpful.

But if I am leading anyone to believe I am not taking advice and that I don't think this is helping me, then I have seriously misrepresented myself. That's at least two people now who seem to read this as if I'm just ranting and rejecting all helpful advice. It may be better if I just close this thread rather than do further damage. I will consider.
 
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  • #83
DaveC426913 said:
It may be better if I just close this thread rather than do further damage.
I don't know that that's necessary. As I noted in a previous post (which you referenced in one of your own), it is recognized that you are asking specific questions and getting specific answers.
 
  • #84
JT Smith said:
I judged that my comments would have little if any effect upon the trajectory of this thread. Will they? I doubt it.
Comments that the OP has done some ranting have not had much of an effect, no. Nor should they, since, as has been noted, the OP has also been asking specific questions and getting specific answers. So the thread is providing value. That is a significant effect on the trajectory of the thread.
 
  • #85
Algr said:
Hmmm...
On a Mac you can have a program running with no windows open. So tabbing to that program won't open up a new window.
No, these are docs that I have open but have tabbed away from or perhaps minimized. I am fully cognizant of when docs have been closed.

Algr said:
You should still see the program's name in the menu bar though.
I do, but some of these are single page apps, like Slack , so the idea of multiple docs in the same app doesn't apply.
 
  • #86
PeterDonis said:
I don't know that that's necessary. As I noted in a previous post (which you referenced in one of your own), it is recognized that you are asking specific questions and getting specific answers.
Thanks. I was beginning to think I was going crazy.

What I will do moving forward is separate out* the rhetoric of broadly complaining from the actual requests for help. I will take responsibility for making readers slog through the unhelpful anguish when all they are really trying to do is help.

*maybe I'll use < rant > tags. I can't promise that I won't resort to a little ranting, but I'll be more mindful of readers' time.
 
  • #87
DaveC426913 said:
maybe I'll use < rant > tags
You could use the "spoiler" tag to hide it so people would only read it if they chose to.
 
  • #88
Hey DaveC426913, hang in there. I have managed to keep clear of Apple products for decades, for precisely the troubles you are having. The Apple Way: it Will be done the way We want it; efficency, customizing and documentation be d*mnd!

I actually find this thread somewhat entertaining, unfortunately it comes at your expense. :cry:

I commend you for your perseverance and professionialism in following thru on your project!

Cheers,
Tom
 
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  • #89
PeterDonis said:
I ... wonder why in tarnation Apple products have any kind of reputation for usability.
They did one thing right almost exactly 23 years ago. Everything else is BS.
 
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  • #90
Tom.G said:
The Apple Way: it Will be done the way We want it; efficency, customizing and documentation be d*mnd!

I've never understood why Windows users say this. In this thread alone we have discussed four different ways to switch from one app to another. I don't used tabbed browsing or minimize windows because I prefer other ways to do those things. I think you just don't know the Mac as well as Windows, and so assume that there is nothing left to know.
 
  • #91
What's strange is that, when I was on the PC side of the fence, the Mac grass looked so incredibly green.

I envied what I was led to believe was the pinnacle of user-centred design and functionality.

My motto used to be: "Someday (when I can afford it) I will own a Mac. Because for me a computer should be a tool not a hobby."

(By that I meant how much time one must spend configuring and troubleshooting software and hardware on a PC, whereas Mac was all built-in and just worked.)

But that was a long time ago...
 
  • #92
I think that is the answer. Tabbing to an app will not un-minimize windows. So I just don't minimize apps.

The Mac is not as easy or consistant as it used to be, but I've seen no improvement from windows in 20 years. My friends that use windows still seem to have more problems and get a lot less done.
 
  • #93
Algr said:
I've never understood why Windows users say this. In this thread alone we have discussed four different ways to switch from one app to another.
(...none of which I have actually worked correctly for me, not to put too fine a point on it.)

Algr said:
I don't used tabbed browsing or minimize windows because I prefer other ways to do those things. I think you just don't know the Mac as well as Windows, and so assume that there is nothing left to know.
I have to acknowledge that this is possible. That I am the victim from "Mother Goose Syndrome" - the strong preference for whatever thing we learned first, regardless of whether it's objectively better.
 
  • #94
@DaveC426913 anybody switching from Windows to Mac and vice-versa especially due to a work mandate has my sympathy.

Ive gone thru this numerous times from GE timesharing to PC DOS to Topview to OS/2 to AIX to Taligent to Linux to MacOS and back to Windows with WSL. As I switched jobs and projects.

It’s painful, impacts your productivity and enhances your scripting survival skills in this new world of AI agent technology.

Jedi
 
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  • #95
DaveC426913 said:
(...none of which I have actually gotten to work correctly, not to put too fine a point on it.)

I can't really reproduce the problem you are having on my machine, other than windows being closed or minimized. If that happens, you just go to the dock. That is probably why I don't minimize programs, and instead just let windows overlap.

It would be nice if the red button would change to a Q when pressing it resulted in quitting the program.

jedishrfu said:
Ive gone thru this numerous times from GE timesharing to PC DOS to Topview to OS/2 to AIX to Taligent to Linux to MacOS and back to Windows with WSL. As I switched jobs and projects.
I've seriously considered Linux. How hard is it? Some people say that the interface is pure Windows-clone with no new ideas.
 
  • #96
DaveC426913 said:
Your suggestion of the F3 and a few other things was very helpful.

But if I am leading anyone to believe I am not taking advice and that I don't think this is helping me, then I have seriously misrepresented myself. That's at least two people now who seem to read this as if I'm just ranting and rejecting all helpful advice. It may be better if I just close this thread rather than do further damage. I will consider.

F3? That was someone else. I never use that feature.

Close the thread if you want or keep it going. It doesn't matter. There's no damage.
 
  • #97
Working with the linux GUI ala Gnome… is similar to the windows experience but with all the program names changing to their linux equivalents.

In windows there’s the Microsoft Office suite vs in Linux theres the Libre Office suite. Similar capability, different icons, labels and menu placement.
 
  • #98
JT Smith said:
F3? That was someone else. I never use that feature.
Got my features crossed. Sry
 
  • #99
That's a critical difference between Windows and MacOS. You shift from a right-leaning GUI window frame (minimize, maximize, exit) to a left-leaning window frame (exit, minimize, maximize features).

Its kind of like that Star Trek TOS episode with Frank Gorshen where the two protagonists are half white and have black split right down the center. The captain asks them why they are fighting still since everyone has died on their planet and one responds because he's white on the right.

1728012300003.png


and then there's the Mac vs Windows commercials:

 
  • #101
Algr said:
I've seriously considered Linux. How hard is it? Some people say that the interface...
There is no such thing as "the" interface for Linux. There are lots of options for desktops/window managers to choose from, some of which work very differently from either Windows or Mac. And there are apps, like Firefox, or LibreOffice which @jedishrfu mentioned, which try to have their own interface regardless of which desktop/window manager they are running on.
 
  • #102
jedishrfu said:
Working with the linux GUI ala Gnome… is similar to the windows experience
Actually I think Gnome was intended to be more like the Mac than Windows; KDE was intended to be more like Windows. But those aren't the only options.
 
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  • #103
  • #104
DaveC426913 said:
book
Book? What is this "book" you speak of? :wink:
 
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