Honda NT700V Deauville motorcycle maintenence: Drive shaft

[Juanda]

TL;DR Summary

I have an old second-hand motorbike and I'd like to have it in as good condition as reasonably possible.

I bought a second-hand Honda NT700V Deauville with 62000 km. I did some basic maintenance (oil, oil filter, and air filter) after the purchase, and it worked more or less OK.
At 66000 km a bigger maintenance was due. It was discovered that the drive shaft was obliterated. It's a weird thing because these components are supposed to outlast the bike. We couldn't understand what could have happened. Anyways, 500€ later I had a second-hand drive shaft ready to be installed.

Now, after ~6000 km, I have discovered the mechanic didn't use the right lubricant for the drive shaft he installed. I guess this is how premature failure of the component happens so I'd like to fix it.

The mechanic has confirmed to me he's used lithium grease. However, the official service manual recommends MoS2.

I'd like your help with a few things.

1. Should I completely take the drive shaft apart to clean it off and reapply the right lubricant?
2. Do you think applying a greater quantity than specified can be a problem? I might have trouble being that precise.
3. Do you understand the difference between MoS2 grease and MoS2 paste? To me, it feels like the grease is more important because it's the part contacting the splines (moving parts) and where I believe the last mechanic used lithium grease.
4. I am not a mechanic nor an English native speaker. Besides, the service manual I have does not show pictures of the components it's referring. If I end up taking apart the drive shaft and sharing pictures, would you know how to identify the shown parts?

For context, here is a video of the process of applying that MoS2 lubricant. I clipped it to show the key moments.

Specification of the grease and application to the splines at the shaft. (1:14)


Application of grease to the splines at the wheel. (9:40)


Application of grease to the shaft of the rear wheel. (10:36)

This seems to be "generic" grease. I have some lithium grease myself at home which I guess it's a valid option.

Application of copper slip grease at the back of the breaking pads (14:10).

I have done it in the past with lithium grease. He uses copper slip for quite a few things, including some screws (12:38). Is this interchangeable with lithium grease?

I believe that summarizes most of it. There is a lot to do to my motorbike but I'll leave it here in this post for clarity's sake.
By the way, the lithium grease jar I have has an expiration date of 09/24. Is this for real? What could be going bad with it?

Thanks in advance!

 

[berkeman]

Sorry, I didn't watch the videos. What is a cardan? Is it just the chain?

 

[Juanda]

All right. That's my bad. I pasted cardan on Google Translate and it spitted cardan back so I assumed that's the word for it.
I meant the drive shaft.
Here is a short video clipped at the point where shaft drives are discussed.


I should change the wording of the original post to avoid confusion. I'll try that but I don't know if I'm able to update the title too.

 

[Juanda]

I should change the wording of the original post to avoid confusion. I'll try that but I don't know if I'm able to update the title too.

I was able to update the information on the OP. Issue solved. Thanks for the heads up @berkeman.

 

[berkeman]

It was discovered that the drive shaft was obliterated.

What does that mean? I broke the drive shaft on my old Honda CB900 a while back, but let's just say that I rode it pretty hard. It left me stranded on the side of the road early in the morning on my commute to work.

I am not a mechanic nor an English native speaker. Besides, the service manual I have does not show pictures of the components it's referring. If I end up taking apart the drive shaft and sharing pictures, would you know how to identify the shown parts?

Sorry again as I still have not watched the videos. Is the concern that the service manual you have is not sufficient, or that the used parts that you have purchased for the service may not be good? I would just follow the service manual to replace and lubricate the new drive shaft.

 

[Juanda]

What does that mean? I broke the drive shaft on my old Honda CB900 a while back, but let's just say that I rode it pretty hard. It left me stranded on the side of the road early in the morning on my commute to work.

I wish I had the pictures but they got lost in an old WhatsApp conversation. I'll try to recover them to post them here. They might be stored in an SD card.
Anyway, if I recall correctly, the splines were completely damaged.

Sorry again as I still have not watched the videos. Is the concern that the service manual you have is not sufficient, or that the used parts that you have purchased for the service may not be good? I would just follow the service manual to replace and lubricate the new drive shaft.

The service manual I could find covers the highlighted sections in yellow. The only thing mentioned about the lubrication of the drive shaft is what I shared in the OP.

View attachment 338289

The details of the transmission are in the green section that I don't have.

My concern is that I don't want to ruin the drive shaft I already had installed because the lubrication work done on it was not correct. I have been running with the wrong lubrication for a little more than ~6000 km... I'm hoping this was not enough to cause some permanent significant damage.
Now I'm wondering what's the best approach to handle the problem which takes me to the 4 points made in the OP.

I'd like your help with a few things.

1. Should I completely take the drive shaft apart to clean it off and reapply the right lubricant?
2. Do you think applying a greater quantity than specified can be a problem? I might have trouble being that precise.
3. Do you understand the difference between MoS2 grease and MoS2 paste? To me, it feels like the grease is more important because it's the part contacting the splines (moving parts) and where I believe the last mechanic used lithium grease.
4. I am not a mechanic nor an English native speaker. Besides, the service manual I have does not show pictures of the components it's referring. If I end up taking apart the drive shaft and sharing pictures, would you know how to identify the shown parts?

 

[Baluncore]

A "Cardan joint" is also called a universal joint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

 

[berkeman]

A "Cardan joint" is also called a universal joint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

On a motorcycle?

 

[Baluncore]

On a motorcycle?

However, the official service manual recommends MoS2.

In the table; "Drive shaft splines (universal joint side) Apply 1 g"

 

[Tom.G]

On a motorcycle?

Yup, unless it's a HardTail.
Engine mounted on frame
Rear wheel mounted on swing arm

If the swing arm swings, the drive shaft gotta bend somehow.

As for the MoS2 grease, Yes use it on the spline. The stuff is slippery AND tough, it stands up to temperature and contact force quite well. The difference between grease and paste is the proportions of carrier (solvents) and the actual lubricating ingredient, and any fillers or corrosion inhibitors that might be added.

Your best bet is to follow the manufacturers manual. Definitely not all "lubricants" are created equal, different ones work best in different environments.

Keep the Shiny Side UP,
Tom

 

[Lnewqban]

...
I'd like your help with a few things.

1. Should I completely take the drive shaft apart to clean it off and reapply the right lubricant?
2. Do you think applying a greater quantity than specified can be a problem? I might have trouble being that precise.
3. Do you understand the difference between MoS2 grease and MoS2 paste? To me, it feels like the grease is more important because it's the part contacting the splines (moving parts) and where I believe the last mechanic used lithium grease.
4. I am not a mechanic nor an English native speaker. Besides, the service manual I have does not show pictures of the components it's referring. If I end up taking apart the drive shaft and sharing pictures, would you know how to identify the shown parts?

1) Yes. The molybdenum-disulfide should reach, and stick onto, the metal surfaces that work harder in your final drive, which are moving (or sliding) relatively slowly respect to each other, and simultaneously exerting a huge superficial pressure.

2) If moderate, no problem other than grease may leak out of the transmission case and reach the tire. 1 gram of grease is about 1.25 c.c.

3) Please, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide#Lubricant

https://mclube.com/products/industrial-lubricants/molybdenum-disulfide/moly-grease-and-moly-paste/#:~:text=Pastes form a thinner lubricating,parts under extreme load pressures.

4) Yes.
Please, see:
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...final-driven-gear_big00028984f__1600_6911.gif

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...nd-side-gear-case_big00028984e__1900_8af7.gif

You can also find many experienced mechanics and NC700V owners here, who will be happy to help you:
https://www.advrider.com/f/#bikes.12

 

[Juanda]

1) Yes. The molybdenum-disulfide should reach, and stick onto, the metal surfaces that work harder in your final drive, which are moving (or sliding) relatively slowly respect to each other, and simultaneously exerting a huge superficial pressure.

2) If moderate, no problem other than grease may leak out of the transmission case and reach the tire. 1 gram of grease is about 1.25 c.c.

3) Please, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide#Lubricant

https://mclube.com/products/industrial-lubricants/molybdenum-disulfide/moly-grease-and-moly-paste/#:~:text=Pastes form a thinner lubricating,parts under extreme load pressures.

4) Yes.
Please, see:
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...final-driven-gear_big00028984f__1600_6911.gif

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...nd-side-gear-case_big00028984e__1900_8af7.gif

You can also find many experienced mechanics and NC700V owners here, who will be happy to help you:
https://www.advrider.com/f/#bikes.12

View attachment 338941

View attachment 338942

That's very helpful. I still haven't gotten around to doing it because I'm trying to contact a local Honda dealership to get my hands on the complete shop manual, but I now have a clearer idea of how to proceed.
Thank you all for the input! I'll try remembering to take some pics to share the hopefully successful story.

 

[Tom.G]

http://www.deauvilleuk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22256
(Deauville Owners UK - International Members Welcome)

(above found with:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&?=shop+manual+Honda+NC700V+Deauville)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Juanda]

http://www.deauvilleuk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22256
(Deauville Owners UK - International Members Welcome)

(above found with:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&?=shop+manual+Honda+NC700V+Deauville)

Cheers,
Tom

Now I have the right and complete manual. I could find it in the first link you posted. Thank you so much.
This offers me a chance to learn to do some work on the bike and save a significant amount of money.

 

[Juanda]

By the way, I realized I made a typo all over the thread, even in the title.
The motorcycle model is NT700V Deauville. However, I wrote NC700 a few times. Is there a way to fix it? Posts are so old I can no longer edit them. The same goes for the title of the thread.

 

[berkeman]

Is there a way to fix it?

Done. Let me know if I missed any.

(well, I didn't change any of the other replies that used the original model number, but it should be okay)

 

[Juanda]

Done. Let me know if I missed any.

(well, I didn't change any of the other replies that used the original model number, but it should be okay)

Looks all right. Thank you.
It's much clearer now. If I or other people need to check it in the future there won't be so much confusion.

 

[Juanda]

By the way, the only MoS2 grease I could find for the drive shaft is this one.

The container specifically mentions splines and it's made in Italy so I guess I can trust it. I was trying to find the % content of MoS2 because, according to HONDA it needs to be 40% MoS2 and 60% grease but nowhere on the internet I can find that info. (That percentage comes from a couple of videos on YouTube, I should check the actual manual now that I have it)

Is their formula secret or something like that? I tried looking for the specs, the datasheet, checking the product on many pages, etc. All I can find is the same description that's written in the bottle over and over again.

Do you think I'm worrying too much about it? I plan to use it soon but a second opinion would be a relief.

 

[Tom.G]

I plan to use it soon but a second opinion would be a relief.

With a wink and a prayer?
How much do you value the motorcycle?

I suggest you call or email the grease manufacturer; ASK them about the MoS2 percentage without telleing them what your requirements are.

Here in the US, unavailable specifications make many of us suspicious as to the reason for the omission.

Keep the Shiny side UP!
Tom

 

[Juanda]

You're totally right. I know the current grease on it is not the recommended one but using this one before confirming its compatibility cannot be much better.
I'll try that.

 

[berkeman]

s their formula secret or something like that? I tried looking for the specs, the datasheet, checking the product on many pages, etc. All I can find is the same description that's written in the bottle over and over again.

Does the manufacturer have an MSDS on their website? (Do they even have those in Italy?) Sometimes an MSDS will list percentages of some of the ingredients.

 

[berkeman]

Does the manufacturer have an MSDS on their website? (Do they even have those in Italy?)

I did a Google search on grasso mos2 msds and got a lot of hits (although not for that specific manufacturer, I think).

Here is a table out of the first hit on the list:

https://www.myoleo-mac.com/media/fi...2c-b9409c8628ba/07_om_grasso_mos2_rev2_gb.pdf

 

[Juanda]

Does the manufacturer have an MSDS on their website? (Do they even have those in Italy?) Sometimes an MSDS will list percentages of some of the ingredients.

I didn't know that keyword (MSDS). I'll keep it in mind next time I'm looking for the composition of something.

I did a Google search on grasso mos2 msds and got a lot of hits (although not for that specific manufacturer, I think).

Here is a table out of the first hit on the list:

View attachment 339149
https://www.myoleo-mac.com/media/fi...2c-b9409c8628ba/07_om_grasso_mos2_rev2_gb.pdf

I checked the page and strangely enough, the MoS2 doesn't appear on the table. Percentages don't add up to 100% so maybe the remaining part is MoS2. Or maybe the MoS2 is within the "lubricating oils" part.
I sent an email to the manufacturer. Hopefully, he'll answer although I doubt it.
I asked about the lubricant in the forum Tom.G recommended which is mostly dedicated to this bike (great find by the way, thanks!) so I believe I'll get my answer soon enough.
In the mean time I'm still working on other things the bike needed maintenance anyway.

 

[berkeman]

I didn't know that keyword (MSDS).

Material Safety Data Sheet -- it is often a required document for manufacturers to make available for chemicals that they manufacture and distribute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_data_sheet

 

[Lnewqban]

Regular cheap moly grease that I have used for other applications contains no more than 5% of molybdenum-disulfide.

I have found these discussions about the now discontinued Honda Moly 60:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/m77-replaces-moly-60-apparently-so.163897/

https://forum.concours.org/index.php?threads/honda-moly-60-discontinued-best-spline-lube.36395/

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/honda-moly-60-substitute.372945/

 

[Tom.G]

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-HN-08798-9010-MOLY-PASTE/dp/B0083BWUYW?tag=pfamazon01-20

(that was the first Google response of:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=moly+paste+60)

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. Good thing you did not use the unknown grease you found, this stuff is 60% MoS2!!

 

[Juanda]

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-HN-08798-9010-MOLY-PASTE/dp/B0083BWUYW?tag=pfamazon01-20

(that was the first Google response of:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=moly+paste+60)

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. Good thing you did not use the unknown grease you found, this stuff is 60% MoS2!!

It seems the price is much more reasonable over there in the States. When I found the product here the price tag is significantly greater.

VS

I tried very hard to source this product or an equivalent one such as Loctite Moly Paste locally but it's been impossible. I guess my best option is to buy it from the States and pay for the shipment. I don't know what makes it so expensive in Europe but I'd rather not pay +100€ for such a small bottle that it's really not worth that much. It's a x6 increment that I just can't understand.

 

[Juanda]

I could finally end the maintenance on my bike. It took much longer than I expected but I learnt a lot in the process.

This link was a lifesaver. I could get in contact with very knowledgeable people.

http://www.deauvilleuk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22256
(Deauville Owners UK - International Members Welcome)

Thank you all for the tips. I hope I can invest some energy back into this forum and keep learning.