How Has the Bible Survived Against All Odds?

[Laser Eyes]

So is satan also responsible for all these damn dinosaur bones we keep finding?

No, of course not.

Also, is Satan responsible for writing the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is much older then the bible, but shares so much?

Yes.

I mean, after we get done with satan tricking us, what else do you have?

The truth.

And if satan is tricking us, he's doing a damn good job.

Yes he is, but I think he finds some people easier to trick than others.

Is god leaving us on our own, having to figure out what is true, when all the supposive tricks appear true?

Yes, God is leaving us mostly on our own, although not completely, because he has given us the Bible. If you want to know why he is leaving us on our own see what I said in the thread "Why does God allow evil?"
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=829

 

[megashawn]

OK, so what now? God's millions of spirit beings have witnessed this incident. The rebellious angel has accused God of being a lier. He has questioned God's right to rule. That has never happened before. Also, the first man chose to disobey God and has been cut off from God. What can be done? Well God could very easily destroy the rebellious angel. But would that solve the problem? After all God's power was never called into question. How can God prove that he is not a lier? Does he even need to prove it? The millions of angels are intelligent beings but they are not Gods. They can not see where the ripples will end. Only God knows for sure what will happen. What would the other angels think if God simply destroyed the dissenting voice? Might they start to wonder if God is trying to hide something? An issue has arisen that needs to be settled. The consequences of disobedience have to be seen.

While I've got some problems with your butchering this story in the earlier paragraphs, this is down right rediculous. Where is this story found in the bible?

And also, the consequences of disobedience is death, suffering, disease, etc? Forever? I mean, I've always heard preachers using the example of teaching a puppy to go outside to releive himself. But regardless of how many times the puppy does the doo in the house, you never tie it up out back, leaving it to its own devices, limited by the rope, and watch it from a tinted window in your house. With the millions of spirit beings (that also seems to lack any biblical backing) it sounds more like a spectator sport, like pro wrestling.

How did I miss that thread, expect a post sooner or later.

Because of the genetic defect that has been passed on to us from the first man and woman we have an inclination to do bad. We have to struggle against our wrong inclinations.

Well here you have it. With the DNA map of the human body complete, it should just be a lil bit of research and number crunching and you'd have a strong peace of evidence for your god. But then again, a genetic defect that causes certain individuals to go nuts, start killing ppls or whatever other sinful activity you can think of, is easily thought of as perhaps a not so evolved animal, not ready to survive in modern society.

Hah, there's a project for ya. Next figuring out if it affects the majority of the world. You could start taking DNA samples with the tithing.

Yes he is, but I think he finds some people easier to trick than others.

Ouch. But are you so sure your not the one being tricked, and what reasons can you provide that I should believe your thoughts, as opposed to my own or others whom I can relate?

In other words, here it goes again, what good reason can you provide that the bible, or Christianity, is the absolute truth? What evidence can you provide to discount all the other religions as false, and of the devil? Surely god would have provided us atleast with a method of examing religions and identify the fakes.

How can the epic be of satans authoring, when it is older then most christians believe the Earth to have existed?

And you said no to my question about dino bones. Why is there no record about them in the bible, which is supposed to be an acount for creation? How did a species that dominated this planet for millions of years not get a single mention?

That above paragraph, to me, works hard on what little credibility could be found in the bible.

And let's not even talk about rediculous claims of age, 500, 600, 900 years old. No chance of any evidence to back that claim up. Especially since reality shows that life expectancy is higher then ever.

And one more thing. You suggested that god was a source of life for adam, while in the garden. What would you think of technology to provide this same effect? Would we be capable of rivaling god? If you can provide any compelling evidence, I'll start working on the design so we can bring down the gates of heaven?



(anyone else have trouble with the devil icon? )

 

[ray b]

a perfect book written by god NOWAY
just an other work of semi-fiction BY MAN

JC's name wasnot Jesus it was ya-sho-wa modern joshua but the angel told mary to call him emmanuel, but she didnot.
anyway the name jesus is just a tranlation error, when the bible was translated from greek to latin they blew his name! nobody was called jesus but that's the name they pray to in hope of salvation, so that's a major clue the religion is false or what?
where was the holy spirit , was he asleep durring the tranlation ?
or did GOD just forget his KIDS name?

btw JC called himself the son of man NOT son of god or christ

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I only mentioned them because you asked about these "other books" and why God didn't intervene in them as well as the Bible.

Well I was thinking about the real books, like those about science, Shakespeare, S.T. Coleridge, Tolkein, whatever you want else, not religious books...

The Bible says that Satan is the God of this world.

Please offer some exact Bible verse that says that! Or even mentions the name Satan.

 

[Laser Eyes]

While I've got some problems with your butchering this story in the earlier paragraphs, this is down right rediculous. Where is this story found in the bible?

I could tell you but what's the point? You don't believe the Bible is God's word anyway. You have made that abundantly clear. In fact you don't even believe there is a God. You said on page 2 of this thread that "god is imaginary". So whether the story you have quoted is in the Bible or not what do you care? If you really don't believe the Bible is God's word then it shouldn't make any difference to you whether it's in the Bible or not. I find it quite amazing that someone who says the Bible is just another book written by men and also says that God is something created from man's imagination, would then say "Show me where that story is in the Bible".

Well here you have it. With the DNA map of the human body complete, it should just be a lil bit of research and number crunching and you'd have a strong peace of evidence for your god.

Perhaps not as simple as all that. After all we have no perfect specimen to which to compare our DNA. The genetically perfect human does not exist.

But then again, a genetic defect that causes certain individuals to go nuts, start killing ppls or whatever other sinful activity you can think of, is easily thought of as perhaps a not so evolved animal, not ready to survive in modern society.

This is not the first time that you have misstated what I have said. I didn't say that our genetic defect causes killing etc... I said that we are inclined to do bad things. We still have free will and great power to choose what we will do. We don't have to give into our impulses.

In other words, here it goes again, what good reason can you provide that the bible, or Christianity, is the absolute truth? What evidence can you provide to discount all the other religions as false, and of the devil?

Well I can't make God appear as if pulling a rabbit out of a hat. It's just my opinion but frankly I don't think anyone has made a dent in the arguments I presented at the beginning of this thread if you consider them all together.

How can the epic be of satans authoring, when it is older then most christians believe the Earth to have existed?

The Earth has existed for millions of years, obviously longer that the Gilgamesh story.

And you said no to my question about dino bones. Why is there no record about them in the bible, which is supposed to be an acount for creation? How did a species that dominated this planet for millions of years not get a single mention?

It's a fair question I suppose. The Bible does not purport to be a comprehensive record of every single thing that has ever happened. You could fill a library with the history of the universe. Would it help you if God had told you in the Bible why he created dinosaurs? Do you really need to know?

And let's not even talk about rediculous claims of age, 500, 600, 900 years old. No chance of any evidence to back that claim up. Especially since reality shows that life expectancy is higher then ever.

OK, we won't talk about it.

And one more thing. You suggested that god was a source of life for adam, while in the garden. What would you think of technology to provide this same effect? Would we be capable of rivaling god? If you can provide any compelling evidence, I'll start working on the design so we can bring down the gates of heaven?

People have been trying to discover the elixir of life for thousands of years. There are entire industries devoted to extending life, or at least the appearance of youth. Isn't that what cosmetics and pharmaceutical companies do? And don't they all fail in the end?

Please offer some exact Bible verse that says that! Or even mentions the name Satan.

Ask (nicely) and you shall receive:

"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out." - John 12:31

"of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged." - John 16:11

"We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one." - 1 John 5:19

"whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." - 2 Corinthians 4:4

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the Earth and his angels were cast out with him." - Revelation 12:9

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I could tell you but what's the point? You don't believe the Bible is God's word anyway.

well the thread title says that you offer proof that the Bible is God's word. If you can prove to us (me, megashawn, Zero, ...), I guess you can prove to anybody. So that would be the point .

Ask (nicely) and you shall receive:

I did say please...

You see, what you are really saying when you say that the Bible is God's words, is not only God exists, but that he did let some physical evidence for us humans. But when I read the Bible I see no evidence, just bloody stories from jewish history, some legends about various persons, prophecies full of anger about the coming of Christ, facts that the science has rejected, and some laws and moral advices. If there is a God who created this entire universe I guess I'm expecting more of him than some inconsistent stories. As for Satan if he wants to deceive humans and prevent us from learning the truth, I guess he's just some pathetic, stupid person (angel, whatever) with no personal life and really in need of some profesional psychiatric help...

 

[Laser Eyes]

well the thread title says that you offer proof that the Bible is God's word. If you can prove to us (me, megashawn, Zero, ...), I guess you can prove to anybody. So that would be the point.

I offered what I considered reasonable arguments at the beginning of this thread. Taken together I believe they ought to be enough for any honest hearted person who doesn't believe the Bible is God's word to at least start wondering and questioning their beliefs. Those arguments are the best I can do. I have nothing more to offer. They can be expanded and written about in much greater detail but they are the essential arguments that prove the Bible is God's word. From what he has posted here it is apparent that megashawn has rejected those arguments. OK that's fine but what is the point of me explaining other concepts from the Bible to someone who believes the Bible is just another book written by men? If the arguments that I presented in the beginning aren't enough for you then nothing will be.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I offered what I considered reasonable arguments at the beginning of this thread. Taken together I believe they ought to be enough for any honest hearted person who doesn't believe the Bible is God's word to at least start wondering and questioning their beliefs. Those arguments are the best I can do. I have nothing more to offer. They can be expanded and written about in much greater detail but they are the essential arguments that prove the Bible is God's word. From what he has posted here it is apparent that megashawn has rejected those arguments. OK that's fine but what is the point of me explaining other concepts from the Bible to someone who believes the Bible is just another book written by men? If the arguments that I presented in the beginning aren't enough for you then nothing will be.

Then, maybe, we should start over, with your original posts, and take those points one at a time? Maybe expand on those, since they seem to have been dropped in favor of the never-popular 'but, darning, it says so in the Bible!' argument.

 

[Netme]

If the "bible" would just be called what it is - true stories about life and god ignored there would be many more "saved" people than there are now.

 

[Tsu]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so what now? God's millions of spirit beings have witnessed this incident. The rebellious angel has accused God of being a lier. He has questioned God's right to rule. That has never happened before. Also, the first man chose to disobey God and has been cut off from God. What can be done? Well God could very easily destroy the rebellious angel. But would that solve the problem? After all God's power was never called into question. How can God prove that he is not a lier? Does he even need to prove it? The millions of angels are intelligent beings but they are not Gods. They can not see where the ripples will end. Only God knows for sure what will happen. What would the other angels think if God simply destroyed the dissenting voice? Might they start to wonder if God is trying to hide something? An issue has arisen that needs to be settled. The consequences of disobedience have to be seen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could someone tell me who said this? I just started reading this thread and -- did I miss a page? I can't seem to find this anywhere except megashawns post. I have been studying the bible off and on for years, and, while I tend to believe that most of it is the inspired word of God, I find the inconsistancies and metaphors obstructive at best. This 'story' sound to me like arguments used by some Adventist friends of mine from years ago. I, too, would like to know:

Originally posted by megashawn
Where is this story found in the bible?

 

[KillaMarcilla]

You see, what you are really saying when you say that the Bible is God's words, is not only God exists, but that he did let some physical evidence for us humans. But when I read the Bible I see no evidence, just bloody stories from jewish history, some legends about various persons, prophecies full of anger about the coming of Christ, facts that the science has rejected, and some laws and moral advices. If there is a God who created this entire universe I guess I'm expecting more of him than some inconsistent stories. As for Satan if he wants to deceive humans and prevent us from learning the truth, I guess he's just some pathetic, stupid person (angel, whatever) with no personal life and really in need of some profesional psychiatric help...

Man, that makes the Bible sound almost embarassingly bad.. like if God ever showed up and we said "Hey, we got your book!" he'd see the nonsensical rambling scribbles and be disgusted, but humor our pathetic efforts

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I offered what I considered reasonable arguments at the beginning of this thread. Taken together I believe they ought to be enough for any honest hearted person who doesn't believe the Bible is God's word to at least start wondering and questioning their beliefs. Those arguments are the best I can do. I have nothing more to offer. They can be expanded and written about in much greater detail but they are the essential arguments that prove the Bible is God's word. From what he has posted here it is apparent that megashawn has rejected those arguments. OK that's fine but what is the point of me explaining other concepts from the Bible to someone who believes the Bible is just another book written by men? If the arguments that I presented in the beginning aren't enough for you then nothing will be.

Laser Eyes, have I, at any time, given you the impression that I haven't taken everything you said seriously and with full consideration to it's implications? Have I given you any reason, short of not agreeing with you, that I am less than honest?

I can understand that you see things differently, but I have a hard time when you start to imply that I and all that disagree with you are being intellectually dishonest.

The arguments you made had a number of flaws, from the point of view of a non-believer being convinced. In other words, from a non-believers point of view, they were not reasonable. If a person already believed in the bible, then I am sure they would be very compelling, but they were not ideas I find either compelling, nor even a little persuasive. No insult intended.

Most of those here that have lost our christian beliefs, have done quite a bit of religious searching and sole searching. Nothing you have said is anything that we haven't heard, a number of times, before.

I keep a fairly strict set of ethics in my behaviour and actions. Honesty is high on that list. Just because you do not understand why I don't accept things you consider as proof does not give you the right to question my, and my fellow posters, honesty. If your beliefs are such that considering me both honest and an aware no-christian threatens your faith, please do not voice this - in that it is a fairly serious insult to question another's honesty in public.

I do not think you intended to insult me or the others who disagree with you, but it is the meaning of the words that you chose.

I respect that you believe differently, please respect that my beliefs (or lack thereof) are different from yours.

 

[megashawn]

Could someone tell me who said this? I just started reading this thread and -- did I miss a page?

What you quoted was a response to something laser eyes linked to, at this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=829

Check a couple of posts above the one in question and you'll see the link and relevance.

 

[Tsu]

Originally posted by megashawn
What you quoted was a response to something laser eyes linked to, at this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=829

Check a couple of posts above the one in question and you'll see the link and relevance.

After looking thru this one for it, I tho't it might be in that thread so I looked thru it, also. Must have been so tired I missed it there, too. But now I've discovered ANOTHER thread I have to read!(You guys have me HOOKED on this forum and I'm staying up WAY too late these days!) SORRY!

I guess I'm still waiting for an answer? Or is Laser Eyes still looking in the bible for that story?

 

[megashawn]

You guys have me HOOKED on this forum and I'm staying up WAY too late these days!) SORRY!

It has a tendency to do that to ya. I've been hooked for a lil over a year myself.

 

[megashawn]

In fact you don't even believe there is a God. You said on page 2 of this thread that "god is imaginary".

I've never said I don't believe a God exists. Infact, many times I've said just that, I do not have enough information to make a decision as to whether or not a god exists.

On the other hand, I believe any god you could possibly want exists in the imagination. So yes, in an imaginary world, there is no question a god could exist.

I find it quite amazing that someone who says the Bible is just another book written by men and also says that God is something created from man's imagination, would then say "Show me where that story is in the Bible".

Hey now, that request was not for my benefit alone. I'm sure any christian believer would love to read that story for themselves. Unfortunately it doesn't exist, as it was something made up to try to help your arguement.

This is not the first time that you have misstated what I have said. I didn't say that our genetic defect causes killing etc... I said that we are inclined to do bad things. We still have free will and great power to choose what we will do. We don't have to give into our impulses.

And this is not the first time you've taken things to seriously, and also skipped the rest of the sentance. Did you happen to notice the nine words after what inspired your comments?

or whatever other sinful activity you can think of

Now just what exactly do you think I mean by that?

It's a fair question I suppose. The Bible does not purport to be a comprehensive record of every single thing that has ever happened. You could fill a library with the history of the universe. Would it help you if God had told you in the Bible why he created dinosaurs? Do you really need to know?

But people who support creationism would have creation science taught in place of real science, and people would never learn about dinosaurs until they were already brainwashed. The bible claims to be an account of creation. It starts at the universe, then earth, sun & moon, then the stars, then plants, then animals, then people.

There is not a man or woman who could be considered sane that would deny dinosaurs existence. To me, the mere fact that there is no mention of these animals at some step in the creation process shows that the biblical creation story is rubbish.

And before you tell me that dinosaurs were included in the lines about creating the beasts, remember that god also told man he'd have dominion over all the beasts. Now, looking at it realistically, who has dominion, a man and a stick, or a raptor?

OK, we won't talk about it

I was joking, I'd love some kind of evidence to support this. Got any?

You see Laser Eyes, as I said earlier, I have no clue about pretty much anything, aside from going to work, paying my bills, riding my bike and playing my games. I don't know if there is some all mighty being pushing the buttons. I have an interest in this stuff because I really would like to see some evidence on the matter, that would perhaps verify the claim of one of the millions of religions (joking again, don't take my number serious and dedicate a paragraph to it).

 

[Laser Eyes]

Radagast, you ceratainly haven't said anything that suggests you have been less than honest at all. The post I think you are complaining about was in response to a post by megashawn. If he or anyone else is offended by what I posted above then I apologise. Looking back at my post above it is not the way I usually deal with things. I think I was in a bad mood at the time and just being argumentative. What I said wasn't meant to question anyone's honesty. I do respect others' beliefs but like everone I could probably be better at it. Like I said, I was just looking for an argument. I think it's possible to be too logical at times.

It's a good point about looking at the arguments from a non-believer's point of view. I really hadn't looked at them like that and it's a little difficult for me to do now. The arguments probably wouldn't have convinced me of anything either when I was an atheist.

I guess I'm still waiting for an answer? Or is Laser Eyes still looking in the bible for that story?

That story is drawn from several different Bible themes and from many scriptures spread throughout the Bible. It would take me some time to prepare a post that properly explained where all the scriptures are and how they relate to the story. It's more time than I have right now so it will have to wait.

 

[megashawn]

The post I think you are complaining about was in response to a post by megashawn.

Ya, didn't you know? You don't have to be nice when replying to me.



j/k of course (I hope [?] )

The arguments probably wouldn't have convinced me of anything either when I was an atheist.

Well, what exactly was it, that finally did convince you?

 

[Tsu]

My post:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I'm still waiting for an answer? Or is Laser Eyes still looking in the bible for that story?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
That story is drawn from several different Bible themes and from many scriptures spread throughout the Bible. It would take me some time to prepare a post that properly explained where all the scriptures are and how they relate to the story. It's more time than I have right now so it will have to wait.

Thank you, Laser Eyes. That is pretty much the same answer that I got from my friends years ago - I just wanted to make sure that...well, I guess I don't really KNOW what I wanted to make sure of. I'm just as confused by the bible as anyone else, and I'm just trying to learn. Please don't feel like you have to pull all this infor together just for for me - just keep going in this thread. You aren't just dealing with skeptics and total atheists here, you know! :-) Some of us Christians need lots of help with this stuff!

I realized years ago that I'd been sitting on the fence most of my life in regards to religion & Christianity, and it was time to get the heck OFF of the fence! No other conscious decision 'felt' right to me (atheism, eastern religions, Judaism)but I really felt compelled to make up my mind, and then, one day, I had a very moving spiritual experience and I realized that I had just MADE my decision. Now I'm just trying to live it, and understand... why I made the decision I did? (I guess? or something...) I have numerous 'fundamentalist' friends, but I surely didn't have the life-changing spiritual event that turned these people's lives around completely. They have become 'bible literalists' (is this the proper term?) – they take the words of the bible and try to live them literally – live as Jesus would have lived - whereas, I am still the same person, with the same life...I just have a different way of looking at life and the world in general. I believe I've become a much better person through this conscious decision, but I haven’t become a ‘crusader’, trying to force people around to my point of view by telling them, that because they don’t believe like me, THEY ARE GOING TO HELL! I guess that’s the problem that I have with someone trying to convince me so hard of ‘what’ the bible ‘says’. They always try to tell me I’m not a TRUE Christian because I don’t believe that THIS is the correct way to interpret this passage…blah blah blah… But you know what? These very people do not act in a very Christian-like manner towards ‘outsiders’ in their churches. I must say that I have found more ‘Christian’ attitudes outside churches than inside them. Why is that?

(don’t know why I told you all that! sorry...I digress)

Ultimately, you have to admit, the bible is a pretty tough read for anyone! It is said you can find anything in the bible to support almost any action that you choose to take in any given situation. I believe this to be true.

 

[Laser Eyes]

Well, what exactly was it, that finally did convince you?

Well first off let me tell you that I was the king of all atheists. Whenever some religious nut needed putting down I got sent into action. There's nothing worse than a smart ass with brains. If I was passing someone preaching in the street I always went over to them to have some fun and show them how much smarter I was. Or if someone knocked on my door and tried talking about God boy did they ever get it. They couldn't leave fast enough. Here is a typical conversation between me, the King Atheist (KA) and the Religious Nut (RN):

KA: Hi, what's this about?

RN: I'm talking to people about the Bible and Jesus Christ. Did you know that Jesus died for you?

KA: Did I ask him to?

RN: Well Jesus died for all sinners because he loved them.

KA: Look pal, I don't believe there is a God. If there was a God he would have told us that he exists.

RN: God did tell us he exists. He gave us the Bible and that tells us many things about him.

KA: THE BIBLE! That's just a book written by men.

RN: Can I just show you where it says ...

KA: I'm not interested what it says in there. A book doesn't prove a thing.

RN: But the Bible is God's word. The writings are inspired by God himself.

KA: I just told you I don't believe there is a God. If you want me to believe in God then make him appear right now.

RN: It doesn't work like that.

KA: Hey if God wants me to believe in him then why wouldn't he appear? That's all I need, just make him appear RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. If he does that then I'll believe there's a God. If he wants me to believe in him then he'd do it.

RN: God created you and all the world around you. How do you think you got here?

KA: Well I don't know about you but my parents created me.

RN: Did they create the Earth too?

KA: Hey pal, are you trying to be smart with me? Haven't you ever heard of evolution and the Big Bang?

RN: But how did life begin.

KA: With a BIG BANG. I just told you that. What are you deaf?

RN: I probably can't help you but it was nice talking to you.

KA: (walking away) You can't help anyone pal including yourself.

So how did the king of all atheists do an about turn? It was as simple as this. One day I decided to open my mind to the possibility that God exists. That's it. That's all it took. The moment I did that I knew that there was a God. Absolute certainty. Nothing supernatural, nothing spiritual about it. I didn't change my mind based on this argument or that argument. No-one else was involved. All that happened was I was willing to accept the possibility that I might be wrong, just the possibility mind you, nothing more than that. But I completely opened my mind, no holding on to anything that went before. I was willing to believe there was a God and deal with whatever consequences there might be. I think I did it because I realized that I had been believing there was no God based on nothing. I had never proven to myself that there was no God and no-one else had proven it to me. I had adopted atheism out of convenience. It was probably one of the more humble things I've done.

People come to know God in different ways. The usual way is through study of the Bible and pondering on what it says. Eventually people realize that God is there. What happened for me is not the usual way.

 

[Zero]

Sad, how the 'king' has fallen. You were right the first time, and if you had been in a predominantly Hindo, Muslim, or Buddhist country, that is what you would have converted to.

Don't take this the wrong way, but were you in AA, rehab, or prison, or had you suffered a recent trauma?

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
So how did the king of all atheists do an about turn? It was as simple as this. One day I decided to open my mind to the possibility that God exists. That's it. That's all it took. The moment I did that I knew that there was a God. Absolute certainty. Nothing supernatural, nothing spiritual about it. I didn't change my mind based on this argument or that argument. No-one else was involved. All that happened was I was willing to accept the possibility that I might be wrong, just the possibility mind you, nothing more than that. But I completely opened my mind, no holding on to anything that went before. I was willing to believe there was a God and deal with whatever consequences there might be. I think I did it because I realized that I had been believing there was no God based on nothing. I had never proven to myself that there was no God and no-one else had proven it to me. I had adopted atheism out of convenience. It was probably one of the more humble things I've done.

That's a very good story, and that's about what it takes too.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Tsunami
Don't ASK me how that got in there twice... I haven't a clue. But I'm quite certain it was operator error, somehow.

If you would like to delete a post, just click on "edit" in the bottom right-hand corner of the post, and when the screen opens up go up to the top and select the delete "box" on the left and click on the delete "button" on the right, and that should take care of it.

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by Laser Eyes
Radagast, you ceratainly haven't said anything that suggests you have been less than honest at all. ...

I appreciate the apology. After I posted I realized you probably were more targetted at a particular person than all who disagreed with you.

It's a good point about looking at the arguments from a non-believer's point of view. I really hadn't looked at them like that and it's a little difficult for me to do now. The arguments probably wouldn't have convinced me of anything either when I was an atheist.

Seeing another's POV is always difficult. When religious folk come to the door, I always invite them into discuss religion. Not to have an argument, but to see what they believe. I hope to always challenge the way I think and make sure I keep my mind open and thinking. Though I don't hide that I don't share their beliefs, I also don't try to make it an issue. I have been quite amazed that most are not the stereotypical, closed minded, religious types, but can see that others can have a valid, but differing point of view.

 

[megashawn]

Well first off let me tell you that I was the king of all atheists.

Seems like rather weak arguements coming from a king of atheists.

I've never shutdown the possibility of a god. I just truly believe that the god of the bible cannot be responsible for this life, with the claims made about him/nature. Then the contradictions, atrocities, etc, make my stomach turn to be honest.

When I say something like, "God should just show himself" it doesn't have to be a physical appearance. If god is so powerfull, and is everywhere, why can't he whisper the same thing in everyones ear?