How Honest Are Students About Their Major GPA?

[Cod]

I won't lie, mine was horrible before I joined the US Air Force. I had a 1.8 GPA after 2-years. Hopefully I can find a school to accept me now that I have an AA degree and military experience.

 

[leright]

We have an A+ that is worth 4.33

that's stupid. there needs to be some sort of standard by which GPAs and grades are determined to make things fair.

 

[mr_coffee]

hat's stupid. there needs to be some sort of standard by which GPAs and grades are determined to make things fair.

I agree my GPA would be a lot higer now if A+'s where allowed, I would work my butt off but get the same A as someone who didn't come out with a 99-98% at the end of the course.

My professor told us about the issues with grade inflation and state schools vs. ivey league GPA, where in the ivey league schools your basically paying for your grade with even worse inflation in the top rank schools, is this true or is she making this up?

 

[JSBeckton]

Perhaps people still inflate their grades even though they know that no one can see who voted what. Or maybe the people with lower GPAs chose not to vote for the same reason. I started a different poll to see what people would estimate the average GPA was at their school. I have a feeling its going to be more of a bell curve.

GPA's are very important for your first job, after that its your experience that counts.

 

[mattmns]

At my school, getting 98+% does not guarantee you an A+, in fact they are quite rare. For example, I finished Vector Analysis with a 102.5% highest in the class, and did not get an A+. Also when I took Linear Algebra I was nearly perfect, finishing with about 99%, but still no A+.

The key to getting an A+ is going to your professors office hours and talking to them and showing extra effort (asking questions that were not assigned, but are of interest to you). Nearly every time I have done this I have left the class with an A+ (of course you do need a high grade in the class in addition to this).

 

[cristo]

At my school, getting 98+% does not guarantee you an A+, in fact they are quite rare. For example, I finished Vector Analysis with a 102.5% highest in the class, and did not get an A+. Also when I took Linear Algebra I was nearly perfect, finishing with about 99%, but still no A+.

The key to getting an A+ is going to your professors office hours and talking to them and showing extra effort (asking questions that were not assigned, but are of interest to you). Nearly every time I have done this I have left the class with an A+ (of course you do need a high grade in the class in addition to this).

I'm not familiar with the US education system, but how could one achieve 102.5% in a maths exam? Is this not a fundamentally flawed method of marking?

 

[mattmns]

On both of our exams we had a bonus question worth 10 or 20 extra points (the exam was worth 100pts, so you could get up to 110 or 120pts)

 

[JSBeckton]

At my school, getting 98+% does not guarantee you an A+, in fact they are quite rare. For example, I finished Vector Analysis with a 102.5% highest in the class, and did not get an A+. Also when I took Linear Algebra I was nearly perfect, finishing with about 99%, but still no A+.

The key to getting an A+ is going to your professors office hours and talking to them and showing extra effort (asking questions that were not assigned, but are of interest to you). Nearly every time I have done this I have left the class with an A+ (of course you do need a high grade in the class in addition to this).

You are lucky, In my linear algebra class the highest was an 83% overall. I can't recall anyone getting a 99+ in any college class that I have ever had.

Do you go to a CC?

 

[mattmns]

No, I attend the University of New Mexico, which is certainly not fantastic.

 

[JasonRox]

WOW read the disclaimer, just anwser the question man. You seem to remember everything BUT your GPA.

mathwonk has it all right.

I failed mathematics in high school, and now I'm a 3rd year math major on the Dean's List.

I can do bad in classes in university too. I have 2 C's, but I'm sure I understand more than the fellows with A's.

 

[JSBeckton]

mathwonk has it all right.

I failed mathematics in high school, and now I'm a 3rd year math major on the Dean's List.

I can do bad in classes in university too. I have 2 C's, but I'm sure I understand more than the fellows with A's.

Then that means that most likely you do not work as hard as the students with A's. What other reason could there be?

I work 30 hrs a week and attend full time, I have never received a C. I believe that grades are only half of the equation but it does say something about your work ethic. I know many people that are not really smart but are willing to put in the extra time to get good grades.

In my opinion, I would hire the hard worker before the genius with C's.

Sure there are exceptions, but overall the hardworker is a better investment.

 

[whitay]

Then that means that most likely you do not work as hard as the students with A's. What other reason could there be?

I work 30 hrs a week and attend full time, I have never received a C. I believe that grades are only half of the equation but it does say something about your work ethic. I know many people that are not really smart but are willing to put in the extra time to get good grades.

In my opinion, I would hire the hard worker before the genius with C's.

Sure there are exceptions, but overall the hardworker is a better investment.

But would you be innovative?

Without innovation you cannot move forward. So would the hardworker merely be a monkey in the long run?

 

[JSBeckton]

But would you be innovative?

Without innovation you cannot move forward. So would the hardworker merely be a monkey in the long run?

You are assuming that everyone with good grades is not really smart, just hard working, that's not the case. And to clarify, this is only for hiring someone with no experience, after that, who cares about grades? And its usually not the recent grad that a company depends on the be innovative.

 

[JasonRox]

You are assuming that everyone with good grades is not really smart, just hard working, that's not the case. And to clarify, this is only for hiring someone with no experience, after that, who cares about grades? And its usually not the recent grad that a company depends on the be innovative.

Keep in mind I have a 4.0 average.

I don't work at all, but just imagine if I did!

Personally, I would hire the hard worker to teach, and the genius to think.

 

[CPL.Luke]

hmm granted we are polling from a very select sample, but this poll seems to reflect more on the fact that grades are being inflated more than anything else. If you have a 3.9 or a 4.0 it means that your school is not grading you hard enough and is in fact holding you back,if you take into account that a lot of the people here come from top institutions already, then the fact that the largest subgroup in the poll had between a 3.9 and a 4.0 is very indicative that the system is broken, and isn't challenging people enough.

personally I think anything above a 3.7 ceases to be indicative of performance and shows that the institution is failing the student in that they aren't giving them enough challenge.

 

[JasonRox]

hmm granted we are polling from a very select sample, but this poll seems to reflect more on the fact that grades are being inflated more than anything else. If you have a 3.9 or a 4.0 it means that your school is not grading you hard enough and is in fact holding you back,if you take into account that a lot of the people here come from top institutions already, then the fact that the largest subgroup in the poll had between a 3.9 and a 4.0 is very indicative that the system is broken, and isn't challenging people enough.

personally I think anything above a 3.7 ceases to be indicative of performance and shows that the institution is failing the student in that they aren't giving them enough challenge.

I agree. I should probably have a 3.5. If I had that, it would force me to work harder, and get a 3.7 or whatever. I would gain a lot more out of it this way.

 

[Ki Man]

It looks like PF is made up of overacheivers

 

[JSBeckton]

I can do bad in classes in university too. I have 2 C's, but I'm sure I understand more than the fellows with A's.

How can you have a 4.0 when you admit that you sometimes do bad in university classes and have 2 C's?

 

[JasonRox]

How can you have a 4.0 when you admit that you sometimes do bad in university classes and have 2 C's?

Isn't a 4.0 an A average?

That's what I have.

 

[JSBeckton]

Isn't a 4.0 an A average?

That's what I have.

I seriously doubt it. Are you claimimg that you have straight A's through 2 1/2 years and now you have 2 C's? Whats the chances of that, you have 2 C's but never get B's. If that's the case, I suspect you may be in a downward spiral.

I agree that if someone who gets 2 C's in one semester can have a 4.0 then the school is not challenging the students. In fact, I think that if any student gets a 4.0 they were not challenged to their limit and therefore received an inferior education.

 

[BobG]

I'm not familiar with the US education system, but how could one achieve 102.5% in a maths exam? Is this not a fundamentally flawed method of marking?

That's grade inflation at its best. Call the hardest couple of questions bonus questions so the most often missed questions don't lower anyone's grade, they just increase the grade of the smartest few in the class.

Or, alternatively, quite a few teachers take the most commonly missed question from one test and make it the bonus on the next test. At least that does serve a purpose, even if it inflates grades.

Grade inflation at its worst is when students get to toss out their lowest test score. That helps the worst students squeak by to a level they might not be prepared for.

The other grade inflation, in high school at least, is making an A in an honors class worth 5 pts, a B worth 4 pts, etc. It reduces the risk and encourages more students to push themselves in a tougher class, which is good, even if it does inflate grades.

I had a GPA in the high C or low B range in high school and graduated in the bottom 25% of my class (but it was a good school, though). My first stint in college, I missed straight A's by one stupid question, in Spanish class, no less. My second stint, I had about a B average. My third stint, I probably had a C average (but that was pulled down by couple of courses I absolutely despised, but had to take because every university has to have a couple of courses unique only to them just to make it tougher to transfer credits - of course, since those courses don't transfer, they don't count anyway ). My last stint has been all A's.

Aside from the fact that anyone dropping out that many times obviously lacked seriousness about school, and the fact that, eventually, one gets to a point where all the courses are interesting vs. checking a box, grading is a lot easier than it was in my first stint. Today, it's hard to find a teacher that wouldn't help get you over the edge to the next higher grade if you only missed it by one question.

But, it is true that the only person that's ever going to care about your GPA is you. I'd hire the person with the 34DD over a person with a 4.0 GPA average any day.

Wait, that didn't come out right. The person with the 34DD is MathIsHard and I'd hire her any day!

 

[cristo]

That's grade inflation at its best. Call the hardest couple of questions bonus questions so the most often missed questions don't lower anyone's grade, they just increase the grade of the smartest few in the class.

Or, alternatively, quite a few teachers take the most commonly missed question from one test and make it the bonus on the next test. At least that does serve a purpose, even if it inflates grades.

Wow, I never knew that happened! The whole point of an exam is to test a person's knowledge of the subject, so taking the question on the *hardest* material out of an exam seems ludicrous! The exams at my university tend to have quesions with parts which vary in difficulty, such that the last parts of each question are meant to test the brightest students (i.e. the ones who have a firm grasp on the material)

I've never heard of a person who's scored 100% on an exam, but you do tend to see some scores in the 90% range. I much rather to have a difficult exam over an easy one since, if you score 90 odd percent in a hard exam, you know that you've understood the material.

Grade inflation at its worst is when students get to toss out their lowest test score. That helps the worst students squeak by to a level they might not be prepared for.

Something like this happened when I was in college (high school). If one had underachieved in a certain exam in the lower year of college, they could retake it the next year, and thus bump up their score. Seems a bit wrong really, but then I suppose some would argue that it is fair!

 

[mathwonk]

Jason Rox, I urge you to try to do something to challenge yourself more, before it is too late.

I spent a long time in my youth saying things like " well there is no telling how good I could be if I only worked, why I already understand the material better than most fellows with good grades."

I bragged about skipping class, then reading the other guy's notes in one night, and passing the exam.

Then I began to slide down the slippery slope of poor performance, and only after a hard period did I realize I was holding myself back by not really trying to see just how good i could be when I did work hard.

When I did work as hard as I could, I was still not at all the genius I had pretended to myself to be, but happily I was certainly a lot better than I had been when I was goofing off.

And eventually I had a lot more fun. the competition out there is terrific. if you have any chance of really being good, you need to do all you can to realize that potential.

When I got back into school and started working, my first grade was sort of an A+ in a non honors course. After celebrating briefly, as I think I said elsewhere, my next step was to get back in the honors sequence and take some harder courses that I could not ace so easily, and try to ace them too.

It took a few semesters, but

thats when i started moving up the ladder toward the level of the really strong students.

good luck!

 

[JasonRox]

Jason Rox, I urge you to try to do something to challenge yourself more, before it is too late.

I spent a long time in my youth saying things like " well there is no telling how good I could be if I only worked, why I already understand the material better than most fellows with good grades."

I bragged about skipping class, then reading the other guy's notes in one night, and passing the exam.

Then I began to slide down the slippery slope of poor performance, and only after a hard period did I realize I was holding myself back by not really trying to see just how good i could be when I did work hard.

When I did work as hard as I could, I was still not at all the genius I had pretended to myself to be, but happily I was certainly a lot better than I had been when I was goofing off.

And eventually I had a lot more fun. the competition out there is terrific. if you have any chance of really being good, you need to do all you can to realize that potential.

When I got back into school and started working, my first grade was sort of an A+ in a non honors course. After celebrating briefly, as I think I said elsewhere, my next step was to get back in the honors sequence and take some harder courses that I could not ace so easily, and try to ace them too.

It took a few semesters, but

thats when i started moving up the ladder toward the level of the really strong students.

good luck!

I'm working on it.

It's very difficult being on my own though. I'll pull through.

 

[mathwonk]

tackle one of the great books recommended here,like milnors morse theory, or something else/ well be glad to recommend if you say what interests you and at what level. you are obviously very gifted, and you have a bright future.

 

[JasonRox]

tackle one of the great books recommended here,like milnors morse theory, or something else/ well be glad to recommend if you say what interests you and at what level. you are obviously very gifted, and you have a bright future.

Thanks.

We do have a great professor at our school. He helps me a lot, and he gives great directions. Open to talk to, and everything.

I picked up a book on Differential Forms. I guess I'll read that for a bit. I'm also going to work on finishing Munkres Topology textbook.

We will see where it all leads.

 

[mathwonk]

we were recommended by ed brown jr to read milnors topology from the differentiable viewpoint in first or second year grad school. it is wonderful. a better starting place than the morse theory book.

there is also a detailed and beautiful version of this material written for undergrads by guillemin and pollack, but milnor is the master.

the undergrad version has complete proofs, i.e. more trees, while milnors is more forest.

you might try reading milnors book, topology from the differentiable viewpoint , and bring questions to your prof.

 

[JasonRox]

we were recommended by ed brown jr to read milnors topology from the differentiable viewpoint in first or second year grad school. it is wonderful. a better starting place than the morse theory book.

there is also a detailed and beautiful version of this material written for undergrads by guillemin and pollack, but milnor is the master.

the undergrad version has complete proofs, i.e. more trees, while milnors is more forest.

you might try reading milnors book, topology from the differentiable viewpoint , and bring questions to your prof.

What do you mean by the differentiable viewpoint?

 

[mathwonk]

well topology is the study of spaces on which only continuity makes sense, while differential topology is the study of spaces on which derivatives also make sense. topology from the differentiable viewpoint is the use of derivatives to draw conclusions which hold for the topology.

i.e. add more structure, get more hold on the situation, but with the goal of obtaining more fundamental information. the poincare conjecture is a prime example. it is a question posed only about the topology of a 3 manifold, but it was solved by using differentiable tools.

i.e. the goal was to show every simply connected compact 3 manifold is topologically a sphere. but it was shown that every such manifold could also be given a differentiable metric structure. then in 1984 hamilton proved that if a differentiable 3 manifold with a metric was also positively curved, then topologically it is a sphere.

hence one could prove the purely topological poincare conjecture by showing that every metric on a compact simply conected 3 manifold can be deformed into one with positive curvature.

i do not know if this is the way the actual proof by perelman went, but it would be plausible.

 

[JasonRox]

well topology is the study of spaces on which only continuity makes sense, while differential topology is the study of spaces on which derivatives also make sense. topology from the differentiable viewpoint is the use of derivatives to draw conclusions which hold for the topology.

i.e. add more structure, get more hold on the situation, but with the goal of obtaining more fundamental information. the poincare conjecture is a prime example. it is a question posed only about the topology of a 3 manifold, but it was solved by using differentiable tools.

i.e. the goal was to show every simply connected compact 3 manifold is topologically a sphere. but it was shown that every such manifold could also be given a differentiable metric structure. then in 1984 hamilton proved that if a differentiable 3 manifold with a metric was also positively curved, then topologically it is a sphere.

hence one could prove the purely topological poincare conjecture by showing that every metric on a compact simply conected 3 manifold can be deformed into one with positive curvature.

i do not know if this is the way the actual proof by perelman went, but it would be plausible.

Is that like Differential Topology?

Sounds interesting as it is.

 

[mathwonk]

yes. and milnor is an absolute master. so he derives the maximum results from the minimum of theoretical machinery.

 

[mathwonk]

heres the amazon site for milnors book

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_...milnor&Go.x=10&Go.y=7&Go=Go&tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[JasonRox]

Looks, good.

Since it is an old textbook, my school probably has it. I'll check it out and read the preface. That will tell me lots about it.

So, what exactly is Morse Theory about?

 

[mathwonk]

check out my posts 17, 21 of the thread how many mathematics do we need?(how to obtain topological information from critical ponts of a single function. eg. any compact manifold having a smooth function with just one max and one min, is a sphere.)

 

[JasonRox]

check out my posts 17, 21 of the thread how many mathematics do we need?


(how to obtain topological information from critical ponts of a single function. eg. any compact manifold having a smooth function with just one max and one min, is a sphere.)

No problem.

I have another question. What are your thoughts about Gauge Theory?

It might be possible to get a research position in this area, but I'd like to know more about it. The professor I talk to explained it as basically string theory is a part of gauge theory. The mathematical side of it. And, how it tries to "compress" extra dimensions while trying to keep the remaining dimensions "smooth" and "undisturbed". I use quotes because I don't know the real definitions, but the idea is there.

What are your thoughts?