- #36
xxChrisxx
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It's not even as clever as tautology, it's simply directly repeating (three times if you include reading the posted article and OP).
xxChrisxx said:It's not even as clever as tautology, it's simply directly repeating (three times if you include reading the posted article and OP).
FlexGunship said:"Hey guys, listen up. The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club."
xxChrisxx said:Are we allowed to talk about it?
nismaratwork said:Once you start, you can't stop.
FlexGunship said:[PLAIN]http://blog.cleveland.com/andone/2009/03/new_logo_red_mr_Pringles.jpg
Seriously, though, are we all done with the anti-nuclear talk? Or was there still some lingering, open question?
nismaratwork said:If you take a fist-sized hunk of U-238, and smash a can of pringles with it, I hear you go some sub-critical to super-critical! True story that the voices in my head told me. So yeah, this thread should probably be locked now.
FlexGunship said:I hear that if I cram my face full of Pringles my cholesterol goes from sub-critical to super-critical.
xxChrisxx said:I am distinctly anti-Pringles for this reason. The minimum estimates from the 1994 Pringle disaster, are 500 billion lost and the death toll is 985,000 and still counting.
Gokul43201 said:... like the difference between 56 (or 75) and 985,000. I have no idea where the larger number comes from
It is disingenuous to compare an RBMK, Chernobyl, without proper containment with a US plant which uses a steel-reinforced concrete containment. It's a bit like crashing a car at 300 mph and claiming that result when the car can only travel 100 to 120 mph.ensabah6 said:In the US, liability is capped at around $11 billion, even though the financial damage from a full-scale catastrophe could easily soar into the trillions. Minimum estimates from the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, which occurred in a remote, impoverished area, have exceeded $500 billion. By recent estimates the death toll is 985,000 and still counting.
Vanadium 50 said:It looks to be approximately equal to the total number of deaths in all of Kiev Oblast since Chernobyl.
Harvey Wasserman, an early co-founder of the grassroots "No Nukes" movement, is senior adviser to Greenpeace USA, and author of 'Solartopia! Our Green-Powered Earth.'
jarednjames said:I don't see why people are so anti-nuclear. Without building more coal, oil and gas plants, nuclear is the only reasonable solution to the energy problem.
I'd be interested in seeing a cost analysis for a nuclear plan vs various renewable sources, I'll try and dig up some figures for comparison.
jarednjames said:They were looking at installing offshore wind farms near where I live and the people opposed it very strongly, the argument "it would spoil the view and ruin the beauty of the coast". They installed a trial one out where the site would be and when questioned, the locals didn't even know they had done it, they couldn't even see it.
I agree, people are unreasonable idiots.
xxChrisxx said:I got that impression, surely there's no way that can be right though even in a biased article linked in the OP. I mean, that's not even stretching the truth, it's almost outright lying.
Vanadium 50 said:No almost about it.
The total radiation release was 600,000 Sv. It takes about 6 Sv to kill a person. So if you gathered up all the radioactive material, and carefully packaged it in exactly the lethal doses, and the lined up people to administer these doses, you could only kill 100,000 people.
It's like claiming you've shot 10 people with only one bullet.
FlexGunship said:I'm strongly pro-nuclear (if it wasn't obvious), but I'm also pro-wind. The idea that a wind turbine would ruin anything really gets me. Have you see offshore farms in pictures? I think they're beautiful. Another instance of man elegantly conquering his environment.
Besides, wind turbine location is an engineering concern, not an aesthetic one.
Vanadium 50 said:...It's like claiming you've shot 10 people with only one bullet.
Argentum Vulpes said:What if I used a M110 howitzer with a W33 shell I think one could safely clam that
Also I'd like to add that getting accurate information on nuclear power from Harvey Wasserman is like asking Dan Quayle to judge a spelling bee.
nismaratwork said:Well now, that's a very exotic definition of "bullet"
jarednjames said:Americans and their guns!
jarednjames said:Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of renewable energy, and I don't mind wind turbines, I think they're quite pleasing to watch (calming). I was all for the offshore farms.
I also consider myself something of a realist. These renewable sources just can't match the output of a power plant facility on a realistic scale.
jarednjames said:Americans and their guns!
mugaliens said:I think at times they can be majestic. However, seeing entire hillsides which were clean and beautiful 20 years ago now dotted with white structures, I am not pleased to see them.
Know of a better defense against criminals and their guns?
Several flaws in your logic; you need to learn to think like an anti-nuclear crackpot (silly scientist!). I can help:Vanadium 50 said:No almost about it.
The total radiation release was 600,000 Sv. It takes about 6 Sv to kill a person. So if you gathered up all the radioactive material, and carefully packaged it in exactly the lethal doses, and the lined up people to administer these doses, you could only kill 100,000 people.
It's like claiming you've shot 10 people with only one bullet.
[separate post] It looks to be approximately equal to the total number of deaths in all of Kiev Oblast since Chernobyl.
mugaliens said:Know of a better defense against criminals and their guns?
russ_watters said:Several flaws in your logic; you need to learn to think like an anti-nuclear crackpot (silly scientist!). I can help:
1. You're not casting a wide enough net. Half the world's population was exposed to radiation due to the Chernobyl accident, which gives you a pool of about a billion deaths to work with. Was this level of exposure above the background noise...?
2. ...Anti-nuclear crackpots do not buy into the "minimum safe dosage" theory. They hypothesize that any dosage of radiation has a non-zero chance of causing cancer. The fact that the dosage received by people thousands of miles from the accident site can't be separated from the background radiation is unconcerning.
3. Signal to noise ratio? Never heard of it. If you have a big enough sample and detect *any* increase in any cancer rate, you can attribute it to Chernobyl, regardless of if it is statitically relevant or lacks any causal link.
4. Cancer care is completely stagnant. That means that an increase in reported cancers must be from Chernobyl, not due to the fact that medicine has advanced so that more cancers can be detected that previously went undetected. Ie, in Belarus, there has been a 40% increase in the incidences of all cancers. Nevermind that that increase has resulted in the incidences coming up to equal the incidences in western countries.
A google reveals that the number comes from a brand-new book by an author who is a Russian scientist and formerly primary author on a study for Greenpeace. The number has gone up since the Greenpeace study. It's easy to find the study and a synopsys of the book on Google, but I'm not giving either free advertising by linking them. That number, by the way, is actual deaths as of 2004, so it figures to keep climbing. The IAEA's 4,000 to 9,000 is predicted total deaths.
xxChrisxx said:When you come from a country where guns are by far the exeption rather than the rule, the argument becomes a non issue.
It's only very occasionally someone goes nuts with a gun over here, it does happen but it'd certainly happen more if guns were freely available. The current ratio of nutters without guns to nutters with guns is a ratio i'd like to keep.
I wouldn't trust the vast majority of this country with a tin of beans, let alone a lethal weapon.
mugaliens said:Know of a better defense against criminals and their guns?
FlexGunship said:He's just angry because if it weren't for "us Americans and our guns" we'd still be a British colony.