Human rights and the police (misconduct)

[JasonRox]

That's not even close to the circumstances in the OP.

I think I would deserve that if I try best to kill the officer .. and surrender when all fails.

You still don't deserve a beat to the head.

If that's what he deserves, then no need for a trial. He already got what he deserved according to you. Should set him free now.

 

[rootX]

See my post about the use of the word deserve.

Yes true but here when I used the word "deserved" I meant that I wouldn't be expecting the officer to behave professionally/nicely when I try my best to push his limits and cooperate when I am left with no more alternatives to kill the officer. (I agree that officer would be misconducting by law in this case)

 

[AUMathTutor]

I agree that the cop is not qualified to determine whether the suspect deserves a kick in the head. It's the judge's job to say what should happen to the guy, if he's guilty. For all we know, the guy had a perfectly legitimate reason to run from the cops. If I thought the cops would brutalize me for no reason, I might run too.

 

[WhoWee]

For all we know, the guy had a perfectly legitimate reason to run from the cops. If I thought the cops would brutalize me for no reason, I might run too.

Let me see if I understand.

I guess OJ made fleeing the police a cool thing to do...especially if you want to prove that you're innocent...the longer you run, the more lives you endanger, the bigger the television spectacle...the more afraid of police brutality you become?

Actually, it makes sense...look at the poor little terror suspects sitting in Guantanamo...we've taken away their right to create "manmade disaters" and subjected them to enhanced interrogation techniques...unlike their more basic methods...like cutting off heads.

Have they disclosed which drug gang to which the subject of our thread is a member? Does he have any other cases or charges pending...that's always a good reason to flee the police.

Maybe the police should just start shooting criminals who run...so they don't kill any innocent pedestrians in their drive for freedom.

 

[AUMathTutor]

In America you're innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

 

[WhoWee]

In America you're innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Or (more often) public opinion. Did you hear the subject of our thread was running because he feared police brutality...he was innocent and the kick proved it.

 

[Cyrus]

Or (more often) public opinion. Did you hear the subject of our thread was running because he feared police brutality...he was innocent and the kick proved it.

I don't think anyone said that, and if they did don't lump that crap with the statements I have made. Put a name behind what people are saying. Don't associate me with that.

 

[Cyrus]

Let me see if I understand.

I guess OJ made fleeing the police a cool thing to do...especially if you want to prove that you're innocent...the longer you run, the more lives you endanger, the bigger the television spectacle...the more afraid of police brutality you become?

Actually, it makes sense...look at the poor little terror suspects sitting in Guantanamo...we've taken away their right to create "manmade disaters" and subjected them to enhanced interrogation techniques...unlike their more basic methods...like cutting off heads.

Have they disclosed which drug gang to which the subject of our thread is a member? Does he have any other cases or charges pending...that's always a good reason to flee the police.

Maybe the police should just start shooting criminals who run...so they don't kill any innocent pedestrians in their drive for freedom.

I have generally found that answering a bad post with an equally if not worse post, tends not to help. I find your comments about GITMO disturbing as a fellow American, because as a proud amurikan your comments make you sound less and less like you understand the principles of American democracy.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't think anyone said that, and if they did don't lump that crap with the statements I have made. Put a name behind what people are saying. Don't associate me with that.

No...you're just glad that he was kicked in the face because he deserved it...but he really didn't deserve it...or something like that?

 

[Cyrus]

No...you're just glad that he was kicked in the face because he deserved it...but he really didn't deserve it...or something like that?

How do you not understand what I wrote? I never said he 'deserved' to get kicked in the head - in fact I explicitly said the oposite and made a post entirely on the use of the word deserve.

 

[AUMathTutor]

You can joke about it all you want, but I wonder how the people who get beat to death by cops feel about it.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/09/19/atlanta_police_suit.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

http://www.oregoninjurylawyerblog.com/2008/12/oregon_wrongful_death_trial_al.html

http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/police-brutality-ian-tomlinson-was-attacked-by-the-police-before-his-death/18224093

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pennsylvania_police_investigating_death_of_tased_0806.html

I don't know whether to be more afraid of drug dealers or the police. Oh, wait. No brainer. The drug dealers won't come into my house and beat me to death for no reason.

 

[Cyrus]

You can joke about it all you want, but I wonder how the people who get beat to death by cops feel about it.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/09/19/atlanta_police_suit.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

http://www.oregoninjurylawyerblog.com/2008/12/oregon_wrongful_death_trial_al.html

http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/police-brutality-ian-tomlinson-was-attacked-by-the-police-before-his-death/18224093

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pennsylvania_police_investigating_death_of_tased_0806.html

I don't know whether to be more afraid of drug dealers or the police. Oh, wait. No brainer. The drug dealers won't come into my house and beat me to death for no reason.

The point you are trying to make is a weak one. Apples and oranges here.

 

[WhoWee]

I have generally found that answering a bad post with an equally if not worse post, tends not to help. I find your comments about GITMO disturbing as a fellow American, because as a proud amurikan your comments make you sound less and less like you understand the principles of American democracy.

Sticks and stones Cyrus...nope, I'm just a happy fellow...not a care in the world...hmmmmmm. Please don't deny me my happiness with your personal attacks.

 

[Cyrus]

Sticks and stones Cyrus...nope, I'm just a happy fellow...not a care in the world...hmmmmmm. Please don't deny me my happiness with your personal attacks.

Right now, you remind me of glenn beck. He also sticks his fingers in his ears and only hears what he wants to hear.

 

[AUMathTutor]

"The point you are trying to make is a weak one. Apples and oranges here."

How on Earth is it a weak point? If this sort of behavior is sanctioned, it will only become more and more commonplace. I don't know how, as a human being, the thought that the people who are sworn to protect us would just as soon beat the **** out of us doesn't make you angry, sad, or afraid. It doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's indefensible.

There are legitimate reasons for running from the police. I will be happy to name several if you want to go down that road. Regardless of the legitimacy or legality of the alleged evasion, you cannot assault people with no consequences. I can't do it, the President of the US can't do it, and a street cop in LA can't do it either.

 

[AUMathTutor]

I wonder how you would feel if the criminal had been trying to mug the cop, and had kicked him in the head when he was prostrate on the ground, ready to surrender his stuff. Then punched him in the gut. Then the criminal's slime-bag attorney says that it was just a distraction and does not constitute assault.

 

[WhoWee]

You can joke about it all you want, but I wonder how the people who get beat to death by cops feel about it.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/09/19/atlanta_police_suit.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

http://www.oregoninjurylawyerblog.com/2008/12/oregon_wrongful_death_trial_al.html

http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/police-brutality-ian-tomlinson-was-attacked-by-the-police-before-his-death/18224093

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pennsylvania_police_investigating_death_of_tased_0806.html

I don't know whether to be more afraid of drug dealers or the police. Oh, wait. No brainer. The drug dealers won't come into my house and beat me to death for no reason.

You're right, it's not a joke...why didn't you post about the recent cop killing spree we've just endured...Oakland for instance?

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11970.../03/22/hes_not_a_monster_says_oakland_cop.php

 

[WhoWee]

There are legitimate reasons for running from the police. I will be happy to name several if you want to go down that road. Regardless of the legitimacy or legality of the alleged evasion, you cannot assault people with no consequences.

Yes...please name EVERY good reason to break the law and run from the police.

 

[WhoWee]

Right now, you remind me of glenn beck. He also sticks his fingers in his ears and only hears what he wants to hear.

More name calling?

This was your first post on the subject..."hAHAHAH he got rocked in the face. That officer is an idiot because now they guy is going to walk away from his crime. That cop should be fired."

Now you're upset because I made a funny.:zzz:

 

[AUMathTutor]

I don't support the killing of police officers. But to be a police officer comes with certain risks and responsibilities. When you put on the uniform, you know that you might be killed. You accept that risk. You have a responsibility to protect and serve the public - before yourself.

Suspects of crimes have made no such commitment. By being in America, they agree to adhere to the law OR to be punished according to the law. Therefore, it is a violation of civil rights for a police officer to beat up a suspect.

I shudder to think what the world would be like if the law said it was alright for police officers to beat up suspects. So much for freedom and human rights.

 

[AUMathTutor]

"Yes...please name EVERY good reason to break the law and run from the police."

- Medical emergency
- Mental instability
- Someone was making him do it
- He knew one of the police officers, the officer had threatened to kill him while he was off duty, the guy recognized the cop and was driving to the police station / out of the county / etc.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't support the killing of police officers. But to be a police officer comes with certain risks and responsibilities. When you put on the uniform, you know that you might be killed. You accept that risk. You have a responsibility to protect and serve the public - before yourself.

Suspects of crimes have made no such commitment. By being in America, they agree to adhere to the law OR to be punished according to the law. Therefore, it is a violation of civil rights for a police officer to beat up a suspect.

I shudder to think what the world would be like if the law said it was alright for police officers to beat up suspects. So much for freedom and human rights.

Wait a minute...we might be onto something here...does that include all of the laws...immigration for instance?

Can you explain how that works?

If a Mexican citizen sneaks across the border...he's not yet IN the US...so he didn't knowingly break the law...then because he's here...he agrees to adhere to the law and turn himself in...is that right...and if he carried a few drugs across the border or had a gun fight with a rival gang...well, that's another issue...for the POLICE.

 

[WhoWee]

"Yes...please name EVERY good reason to break the law and run from the police."

- Medical emergency
- Mental instability
- Someone was making him do it
- He knew one of the police officers, the officer had threatened to kill him while he was off duty, the guy recognized the cop and was driving to the police station / out of the county / etc.

People with medical emergencies should run from the police?
Mentally unstable people probably shouldn't be driving.
Back to OJ...he had a gun and he's my friend so I had to do it?
And you saved the best for last...did you make that up...or can you post an actual story?

 

[AUMathTutor]

"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things.

"Mentally unstable people probably shouldn't be driving."
And police shouldn't be kicking people's teeth in...

"Back to OJ...he had a gun and he's my friend so I had to do it?"
If you're in a car and a guy is holding a gun to your head and says "drive", then I fail to see how you're breaking any laws by doing what you have to do to stay alive. Maybe the guy thought somebody was there with a gun to his head.

"And you saved the best for last...did you make that up...or can you post an actual story?"
I just made it up, but reality is stranger than fiction. Do you think that a police officer somewhere in America has never threatened to kill somebody and actually done it, making it look like a legitimate police action? I wouldn't take that bet, and I doubt you would either.

Drugs put funny ideas into people's heads. If the guy was hallucinating, or had a reason to run, he doesn't deserve to get kicked. He has the right to tell his side of the story. That's what the court system is for.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't know whether to be more afraid of drug dealers or the police. Oh, wait. No brainer. The drug dealers won't come into my house and beat me to death for no reason.

Drug addicts will rob a house or kill someone randomly for almost nothing, and that money goes straight to their dealers. Criminal actions by policemen against civilians are much rarer in comparison. It's just that these incidents get more attention because it is particularly repugnant when a person who is given authority to protect people uses that authority to harm or intimidate them.

Either way, criminal acts are rarely without reason. There is usually something to be gained or lost that inspires the criminal action whether the perpetrator is a law enforcement agent or not. Even when acting despite law or morality there is still the consideration of reward vs. risk.

 

[WhoWee]

"People with medical emergencies should run from the police? "
Perhaps he had a passenger who was dying and needed immediate medical attention. Perhaps he had ingested a large amount of poison and was rushing to the hospital. Perhaps he had a family member who had been involved in a terrible accident and needed a rare blood transfusion / organ transplant. Perhaps he was just imagining one or more of these things.

"Mentally unstable people probably shouldn't be driving."
And police shouldn't be kicking people's teeth in...

"Back to OJ...he had a gun and he's my friend so I had to do it?"
If you're in a car and a guy is holding a gun to your head and says "drive", then I fail to see how you're breaking any laws by doing what you have to do to stay alive. Maybe the guy thought somebody was there with a gun to his head.

"And you saved the best for last...did you make that up...or can you post an actual story?"
I just made it up, but reality is stranger than fiction. Do you think that a police officer somewhere in America has never threatened to kill somebody and actually done it, making it look like a legitimate police action? I wouldn't take that bet, and I doubt you would either.

Drugs put funny ideas into people's heads. If the guy was hallucinating, or had a reason to run, he doesn't deserve to get kicked. He has the right to tell his side of the story. That's what the court system is for.

Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread.

 

[AUMathTutor]

"Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread."

How did the police officer know that these weren't the reasons? Prove it.

My issue isn't so much with this particular instance of police brutality, but with the general idea that police can assault suspects at their discretion. Maybe this guy was guilty as sin. But it's not the cop's job to judge the suspect.

 

[LowlyPion]

Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4017382

 

[rootX]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4017382

The Moats family, who are black, said they can't help but think that race might have played a part in the white officer's behavior.

...

(I haven't read it fully but it looks pretty similar to this one. Looks like Police officer is being blamed for everything. But so far from this story, I understand that I can break laws in case of emergencies and police need to understand that.)

 

[Huckleberry]

Where does this us vs. them perspective come from between civilians and police? It's not uncommon that people don't trust police officers, but is it really because of incidents like this or is there some other cause? Do police look at every civilian as a potential criminal? Is that perspective something that develops for their safety, or is there something in the psychological profile of people that seek to become police officers that feeds off authority?

Here's a case where a police officer maces an employee at a McDonalds drive-thru because she short-changed him $10. That's the situation from the officer's perspective. The employees perspective is that the officer mistakenly gave her a $10 bill rather than a $20 and she made the correct change. I can't help but think that this entire incident, despite who is correct, is all about a dispute over $10. The officer becomes judge, jury and executioner. He's overstepped his authority.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Policeman-Pepper-Spray-Teen-For-Short-Change

 

[Cyrus]

"The point you are trying to make is a weak one. Apples and oranges here."

How on Earth is it a weak point? If this sort of behavior is sanctioned, it will only become more and more commonplace.

It's a weak point because you are trying to make the argument that he was running because he feared for his life from the police. The guy was running because he comitted a crime, not because he thought the police were randomly chasing him.

I don't know how, as a human being, the thought that the people who are sworn to protect us would just as soon beat the **** out of us doesn't make you angry, sad, or afraid. It doesn't make any sense to me. In my mind it's indefensible.

What do I care? He didn't beat the **** out of him, he kicked him. What makes me angry is when the police beat to death a suspect in custody (which happened here recently). This video doesn't anger me, but it's inappropriate on the officers part (and funny to watch).

Regardless of the legitimacy or legality of the alleged evasion, you cannot assault people with no consequences. I can't do it, the President of the US can't do it, and a street cop in LA can't do it either.

Do you know how to read what I write? Stop telling me what I posted myself. God that annoyes me when people do that. Sorry, but EUGHHHh. That gets under my skin.

 

[Cyrus]

More name calling?

This was your first post on the subject..."hAHAHAH he got rocked in the face. That officer is an idiot because now they guy is going to walk away from his crime. That cop should be fired."

Now you're upset because I made a funny.:zzz:

Im sorry, is there a point to your post?

 

[Cyrus]

You're right, it's not a joke...why didn't you post about the recent cop killing spree we've just endured...Oakland for instance?

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11970.../03/22/hes_not_a_monster_says_oakland_cop.php

Remember what I said about responding to a bad post with an equally bad post?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Where does this us vs. them perspective come from between civilians and police? It's not uncommon that people don't trust police officers, but is it really because of incidents like this or is there some other cause? Do police look at every civilian as a potential criminal? Is that perspective something that develops for their safety, or is there something in the psychological profile of people that seek to become police officers that feeds off authority?

Many people come here from other countries and have tendancies toward certain cultural perceptions of authority figures. The police in Mexico are notoriously corrupt and in my experience (as I mentioned previously) mexican immigrants tend to be rather apologetic towards, and fearful of, authority figures. There are many different perceptions that I have come across: authority figures ought to be respected, respected and feared, distrusted and feared, ect.
Its a fairly rare perception that cops are donut dunking pigs not worth any respect or concern (another sort of us vs them) but its fairly common among white americans. I'm only a security guard but I have received far more abuse from white americans than any other demographic. Its gotten to the point that if a white person gives me any guff I immediately turn off the politeness, tell them how it is, and make sure they get the picture that I am not going to take any ****. From what I have seen this is the way that cops around here normally deal with any kind of people except that they often skip the polite phase.

 

[WhoWee]

"Can you cite an actual event to support any of these suppositions? None of these were the case in the context of this thread."

How did the police officer know that these weren't the reasons? Prove it.

You want me to prove your supposition?